4th Gen, 5th Gen, or FJ Panhard Bar on 3rd Gen

Unner

New member
Hey everyone, I'm installing my lift this weekend and I know I'm most likely going to need a panhard drop bracket or adjustable bar. I've been looking at adjustable bars mostly, since I can't weld really, but this thought crossed my mind earlier today.

Has anyone ever ran the panhard bar off a 4th Gen, 5th Gen, FJ Cruiser, or some other vehicle to recenter their axle? I have no idea if they are longer or not or if the mounting points are the same, but is there any reason this wouldn't work if it is the right amount longer?

My mom has a 4th Gen 4Runner that I could measure the length of I'm sure, but I doubt she would want me pulling hers off to test on mine. Anyone have experience with this or know of an immediate reason this wouldn't work?

I figured if it's the right length longer then I can just pick up a used one from someone who lifted their's and went with an adjustable bar for pretty cheap. It would still be OEM quality, but without the cost of an adjustable bar. I searched but nothing came up.

Thanks!
 
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Never heard of it before and usually you would have heard of this by now on such an old vehicle.

For what its worth, I have good amount of lift and drive fine without any modification to the panhard bar.
 
From the research I've done, I feel the Adjustable Bar is the way to go. That being said, I'm not yet running mine. I ordered one from Sonoran Steel and it should be here tomorrow. As far as ride quality goes, the only thing I notice is that I'm misaligned but I'm sure if I got an alignment, it'd drive the exact same (being the front would be altered to fit the rear).

With fitting a pan hard bar from another vehicle, to me it seems easier to just but the adjustable. Even if the 4th gen's is longer, it may be too long or not long enough. Having not recieved my adjustable pan hard bar, I haven't looked at the instructions but I'm assuming you take the old one out, put the new one in, and adjust it until there's an equal amount of tire sticking out from each side. This to me seems the easiest route, especially since you're going to have to buy something whether it be something from a different generation or adjustable.
 
the way to go actually is a panhard lift, but you should only do it if you have extended your bumps stops, otherwise it can hit the frame. the way it makes the truck handle though is amazing. I have details in my thread and I believe you can simply weld a drop bracket onto the axle for the same effect as what i have done. the main reason the lift is better is because it raises the roll center and that helps cancel out some body roll.
 
Thanks for the input guys, I kinda figured if it would work we would know about it on the forum. I'll do a little more looking around and see what the best option is for me, I'm thinking the adjustable bar is best for me right now.
 
I've always heard that the drop brackets better than the adjustable bar. Something to do with angles, but I can't remember. Anyways, we just need to get some measurements from some fj, 4th, and 5th gen guys to see if it'll fit
 
The 4th gen is far longer, and won't fit unless you chop and re-weld. I have one sitting in my back yard waiting for just that. The FJ is likely to be the same, as the axle is the same on the 4th gen 4runner, but that's speculation on my part.

I have the adjustable bar now and it's the thing I hate the most on my rig. A bracket is far better. Any hard/fast hits on the adjustable panhard bar sends the rear axle sideways that you definitely feel on the highway, etc. A bracket will keep the horizontal geometry.
 
I've always heard that the drop brackets better than the adjustable bar. Something to do with angles, but I can't remember. Anyways, we just need to get some measurements from some fj, 4th, and 5th gen guys to see if it'll fit

The drop bracket returns the pnahard to its original geometry (as you said, angles) and makes the panhard "flatter" and more parallel to the axle. An adjustable/extended panhard just pushes the axle over but doesn't actually fix the geometry change, and is more of a cosmetic fix so to speak.
 
The drop bracket returns the pnahard to its original geometry (as you said, angles) and makes the panhard "flatter" and more parallel to the axle. An adjustable/extended panhard just pushes the axle over but doesn't actually fix the geometry change, and is more of a cosmetic fix so to speak.

this is true but it also lowers the roll center which increases body roll.
 
Everyone's opinion on these differs... That makes it hard to decipher what is really best for me.

Just FYI the 4th Gen Panhard is 40" bolt to bolt. Way too long for a 3rd Gen.
 
its not really a matter of opinion actually there are specific advantages and disadvantages to each of the four options.

First off let me start with a brief explanation of the stock suspension on the rear of the 3rd gen 4runner. The solid rear axle is linked to the frame using 4 links in line with the frame and 1 link perpendicularly aligned with the frame. the two lower links are angles in slightly, and the two upper links angled in more than the lower links, but are not fully triangulated. Because the upper links are not fully triangulated a flat pan hard bar is used to center the axle left and right.

side note: an advantage of this 5 link setup is that the links dont require very much rotation or misalignment with close to stock travel numbers so rubber bushings can be used for quite some time without having to be replaced.

When the panhard bar is flat the left to right movement is small compared to the up and down movement. On a non lifted truck the axle is compressed from ride height, it slowly moves towards the passenger side, as it extends it slowly moves towards the passenger side.

When you lift the truck, the axle moves down from the body and all of the links angle down, including the panhard bar. The further down the panhard bar is angled the more left and right movement you attain from up and down movement. This causes the axle to move to the passenger side when the truck sits at the new lifted ride height. Now when the axle is compressed from the new ride height it first moves to the drivers side, then as the axle extends downwards it moves more quickly towards the passenger side.

Do nothing:
Advantages: Its free, and the axle will center it self correctly when flexed out or fully bumped.

Disadvantages: The axle will not be centered at ride height. There will be more sided to side movement than there is if the bar is flat. The more lift you have the more severe the disadvantages. The roll center only rises half of how much the truck is lifted, this nets more body roll.

Adjustable panhard:
Advantages: Centers the axle and corrects the left to right pinion angle. It is adjustable for different lifts.

Disadvantages: The axle will not center properly under full bump and flex and will cause more of a problem with the drive shaft running into the gas tank(this can be fixed by adding extended bump stops). all of the disadvantages of doing nothing except the axle being centered. It is the most expensive option.

Panhard drop bracket:
Advantages: Centers the axle, Corrects left to right pinion, Reduces left to right movement of axle during travel. Lower cost compared to adjustable panhard bar. The axle moves away from the gas tank under full bump and flex.

Disadvantages: Not adjustable, and also doesn't come in different sizes(unless you make your own). the roll center remains at the same height while the center of mass moves up(this makes the truck have more body roll)

Panhard lift(on the axle)
Advantages: Properly centers axle, reduces left to right movement during travel, raises roll center (making the the truck less prone to body roll). The axle moves away from the gas tank under full bump.

Disadvantages: this would have to be made by a shop, unless you can simply weld the drop bracket on the axle? extended bump stops may be required if you match the amount of lift with your suspension lift, you should check for clearance before hand( this being said I have installed a 4.5" lift bracket and my bump stops are extended around 2.5" so you could concievably get away with a 2"-3" lift with no problems. cost is probably still less than the adjustable panhard bar even if you have to have one fabricated and installed. I believe that the axle may move towards the gas tank slightly more than the panhard drop does, but not as much as the adjustable panhard bar.

It is generally accepted that the panhard should be flat if possible because it decreases left to right movement of the axle. I have also heard that a flat panhard bar reduces rear axle steer. additionally if you decrease body roll you have more grip because the load is kept equal on each tire, it also increases side hill stability. on my truck I installed my lift bracket and noticed a huge increase in handling around corners and over bumps, I had to install a new axle in the rear and have not yet installed the lift bracket and have noticed a significant increase in body roll and side to side movement compared to before. more notably without the lift bracket if I floor it going around a corner I can cause one tire to loose traction, when the lift bracket was installed the tires refused to loose traction and just felt much more grippy, I loved the new feeling of the truck so much i went and tested out in the desert immediately. I cant wait to reinstall the lift bracket!

Heres some more information on some of the terms I used
Panhard Bar
Roll Center
Body Roll
4 link with panhard

Hopefully you find this interesting and useful, I spent quite a bit of time researching this, and also a bit of time writing this response.
 
I don't have much to offer here but I'll say this...

I think my 4Runner handles INCREDIBLY well for the type of vehicle it is, and the amount of lift I have (especially in the rear). I cruise around town and on the freeway holding my steering wheel between my thumb and index finger, hardly ever putting two hands on the wheel unless there's traffic. At 70mph I can take both hands off of the wheel and steer with a knee if I need to. (Not that I have ever done that, of course...)

A friend and I have VERY similar 4Runners. He has an adjustable bar, I have a drop bracket. Same spring rating in the front (650lb w/ 2.5" coilover), same springs in the rear (OME 861 w/ 2.5" reservoir shocks), same sway bar configuration (none in front, same extended links in rear), bumper w/ winch on front, bumper w/ swingout on the back. Even though mine has a 1/2" body lift (his has no body lift) I notice CONSIDERABLY less body roll in my 4Runner than his.

And I have never hit my gas tank skid.
 
Last edited:
its not really a matter of opinion actually there are specific advantages and disadvantages to each of the four options.

First off let me start with a brief explanation of the stock suspension on the rear of the 3rd gen 4runner. The solid rear axle is linked to the frame using 4 links in line with the frame and 1 link perpendicularly aligned with the frame. the two lower links are angles in slightly, and the two upper links angled in more than the lower links, but are not fully triangulated. Because the upper links are not fully triangulated a flat pan hard bar is used to center the axle left and right.

side note: an advantage of this 5 link setup is that the links dont require very much rotation or misalignment with close to stock travel numbers so rubber bushings can be used for quite some time without having to be replaced.

When the panhard bar is flat the left to right movement is small compared to the up and down movement. On a non lifted truck the axle is compressed from ride height, it slowly moves towards the passenger side, as it extends it slowly moves towards the passenger side.

When you lift the truck, the axle moves down from the body and all of the links angle down, including the panhard bar. The further down the panhard bar is angled the more left and right movement you attain from up and down movement. This causes the axle to move to the passenger side when the truck sits at the new lifted ride height. Now when the axle is compressed from the new ride height it first moves to the drivers side, then as the axle extends downwards it moves more quickly towards the passenger side.

Do nothing:
Advantages: Its free, and the axle will center it self correctly when flexed out or fully bumped.

Disadvantages: The axle will not be centered at ride height. There will be more sided to side movement than there is if the bar is flat. The more lift you have the more severe the disadvantages. The roll center only rises half of how much the truck is lifted, this nets more body roll.

Adjustable panhard:
Advantages: Centers the axle and corrects the left to right pinion angle. It is adjustable for different lifts.

Disadvantages: The axle will not center properly under full bump and flex and will cause more of a problem with the drive shaft running into the gas tank(this can be fixed by adding extended bump stops). all of the disadvantages of doing nothing except the axle being centered. It is the most expensive option.

Panhard drop bracket:
Advantages: Centers the axle, Corrects left to right pinion, Reduces left to right movement of axle during travel. Lower cost compared to adjustable panhard bar. The axle moves away from the gas tank under full bump and flex.

Disadvantages: Not adjustable, and also doesn't come in different sizes(unless you make your own). the roll center remains at the same height while the center of mass moves up(this makes the truck have more body roll)

Panhard lift(on the axle)
Advantages: Properly centers axle, reduces left to right movement during travel, raises roll center (making the the truck less prone to body roll). The axle moves away from the gas tank under full bump.

Disadvantages: this would have to be made by a shop, unless you can simply weld the drop bracket on the axle? extended bump stops may be required if you match the amount of lift with your suspension lift, you should check for clearance before hand( this being said I have installed a 4.5" lift bracket and my bump stops are extended around 2.5" so you could concievably get away with a 2"-3" lift with no problems. cost is probably still less than the adjustable panhard bar even if you have to have one fabricated and installed. I believe that the axle may move towards the gas tank slightly more than the panhard drop does, but not as much as the adjustable panhard bar.

It is generally accepted that the panhard should be flat if possible because it decreases left to right movement of the axle. I have also heard that a flat panhard bar reduces rear axle steer. additionally if you decrease body roll you have more grip because the load is kept equal on each tire, it also increases side hill stability. on my truck I installed my lift bracket and noticed a huge increase in handling around corners and over bumps, I had to install a new axle in the rear and have not yet installed the lift bracket and have noticed a significant increase in body roll and side to side movement compared to before. more notably without the lift bracket if I floor it going around a corner I can cause one tire to loose traction, when the lift bracket was installed the tires refused to loose traction and just felt much more grippy, I loved the new feeling of the truck so much i went and tested out in the desert immediately. I cant wait to reinstall the lift bracket!

Heres some more information on some of the terms I used
Panhard Bar
Roll Center
Body Roll
4 link with panhard

Hopefully you find this interesting and useful, I spent quite a bit of time researching this, and also a bit of time writing this response.

Thanks for taking the time to post this, very informative. Everything you need to know about the Panhard bar is right there.

I don't have much to offer here but I'll say this...

I think my 4Runner handles INCREDIBLY well for the type of vehicle it is, and the amount of lift I have (especially in the rear). I cruise around town and on the freeway holding my steering wheel between my thumb and index finger, hardly ever putting two hands on the wheel unless there's traffic. At 70mph I can take both hands off of the wheel and steer with a knee if I need to. (Not that I have ever done that, of course...)

A friend and I have VERY similar 4Runners. He has an adjustable bar, I have a drop bracket. Same spring rating in the front (650lb w/ 2.5" coilover), same springs in the rear (OME 861 w/ 2.5" reservoir shocks), same sway bar configuration (none in front, same extended links in rear), bumper w/ winch on front, bumper w/ swingout on the back. Even though mine has a 1/2" body lift (his has no body lift) I notice CONSIDERABLY less body roll in my 4Runner than his.

And I have never hit my gas tank skid.

Well it sounds like the drop/lift bracket is the way to go. I'm sure I have access to a welder, but I've never welded before and wouldn't trust myself to weld onto my frame. I wish there was a decent off-road shop here that I could have fab something or even just weld a bracket on for me. There's one but they quoted me $500 to weld on a set of sliders last year...
 
In my experience "offroad shops" normally charge up to 3x as much as just a regular welder. Regular welders know how to weld just about anything (at least mine do) so I'd check with them.
 
its not really a matter of opinion actually there are specific advantages and disadvantages to each of the four options.

First off let me start with a brief explanation of the stock suspension on the rear of the 3rd gen 4runner. The solid rear axle is linked to the frame using 4 links in line with the frame and 1 link perpendicularly aligned with the frame. the two lower links are angles in slightly, and the two upper links angled in more than the lower links, but are not fully triangulated. Because the upper links are not fully triangulated a flat pan hard bar is used to center the axle left and right.

side note: an advantage of this 5 link setup is that the links dont require very much rotation or misalignment with close to stock travel numbers so rubber bushings can be used for quite some time without having to be replaced.

When the panhard bar is flat the left to right movement is small compared to the up and down movement. On a non lifted truck the axle is compressed from ride height, it slowly moves towards the passenger side, as it extends it slowly moves towards the passenger side.

When you lift the truck, the axle moves down from the body and all of the links angle down, including the panhard bar. The further down the panhard bar is angled the more left and right movement you attain from up and down movement. This causes the axle to move to the passenger side when the truck sits at the new lifted ride height. Now when the axle is compressed from the new ride height it first moves to the drivers side, then as the axle extends downwards it moves more quickly towards the passenger side.

Do nothing:
Advantages: Its free, and the axle will center it self correctly when flexed out or fully bumped.

Disadvantages: The axle will not be centered at ride height. There will be more sided to side movement than there is if the bar is flat. The more lift you have the more severe the disadvantages. The roll center only rises half of how much the truck is lifted, this nets more body roll.

Adjustable panhard:
Advantages: Centers the axle and corrects the left to right pinion angle. It is adjustable for different lifts.

Disadvantages: The axle will not center properly under full bump and flex and will cause more of a problem with the drive shaft running into the gas tank(this can be fixed by adding extended bump stops). all of the disadvantages of doing nothing except the axle being centered. It is the most expensive option.

Panhard drop bracket:
Advantages: Centers the axle, Corrects left to right pinion, Reduces left to right movement of axle during travel. Lower cost compared to adjustable panhard bar. The axle moves away from the gas tank under full bump and flex.

Disadvantages: Not adjustable, and also doesn't come in different sizes(unless you make your own). the roll center remains at the same height while the center of mass moves up(this makes the truck have more body roll)

Panhard lift(on the axle)
Advantages: Properly centers axle, reduces left to right movement during travel, raises roll center (making the the truck less prone to body roll). The axle moves away from the gas tank under full bump.

Disadvantages: this would have to be made by a shop, unless you can simply weld the drop bracket on the axle? extended bump stops may be required if you match the amount of lift with your suspension lift, you should check for clearance before hand( this being said I have installed a 4.5" lift bracket and my bump stops are extended around 2.5" so you could concievably get away with a 2"-3" lift with no problems. cost is probably still less than the adjustable panhard bar even if you have to have one fabricated and installed. I believe that the axle may move towards the gas tank slightly more than the panhard drop does, but not as much as the adjustable panhard bar.

It is generally accepted that the panhard should be flat if possible because it decreases left to right movement of the axle. I have also heard that a flat panhard bar reduces rear axle steer. additionally if you decrease body roll you have more grip because the load is kept equal on each tire, it also increases side hill stability. on my truck I installed my lift bracket and noticed a huge increase in handling around corners and over bumps, I had to install a new axle in the rear and have not yet installed the lift bracket and have noticed a significant increase in body roll and side to side movement compared to before. more notably without the lift bracket if I floor it going around a corner I can cause one tire to loose traction, when the lift bracket was installed the tires refused to loose traction and just felt much more grippy, I loved the new feeling of the truck so much i went and tested out in the desert immediately. I cant wait to reinstall the lift bracket!

Heres some more information on some of the terms I used
Panhard Bar
Roll Center
Body Roll
4 link with panhard

Hopefully you find this interesting and useful, I spent quite a bit of time researching this, and also a bit of time writing this response.


This should be sticky'd and/or added to the "Lift FAQ" page!!
Thanks for putting this together!
 

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