560lb over stock, and my ride is still too stiff... how much softer should I go?

I can tell you from experience that 99 talls and 1.5” Daystars in the rear ride the same and give the same hub to fender measurement of 23”. That’s with leaving the factory cone bumpstops in and daily driving with no extra weight. The spring rates are much closer than you would think. If I remember correctly, stock is 170# and 890’s are 190#. The only noticeable difference to me is the load handling. The 890’s handle 200+ lbs way better than the 99 talls. In your OP, you mentioned being around 2.75” over stock all around. Since the Superflex are supposed to sit around 3.5” unloaded, whatever extra weight you have daily would probably make you sit around 21.75” to 22” with the 890’s and 21.5” with the 99 tall/ Daystar combo since they don’t handle weight very well, so your ride height estimation quoted above is probably spot on.


If you decide to opt for the 890’s, I am trying to find someone to trade my 890’s for their Superflex. I’d even pay shipping for both sets of coils if you’re interested.

[MENTION=68460]Dezert4Runner[/MENTION] and I are doing a straight swap. My 620s and Superflex for some stock fronts and 890s. I just got the rear 890s installed! Snapped a pic of my first removed Superflex with the two 890s. Funny how much easier it was to get the 890s in than taking the Superflex our :P .

I'll be installing the stock fronts with my 5100s on the top perch, and will expect something like 1.5" over stock based on my weight and that these are used coils.

Fingers crossed for that Cadillac ride!
 

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I really liked my 99 talls on the top perch with the bilsteins. Much better than the toytec 620's. I did feel they were a little under dampened for my trucks weight, but that certainly wasn't the springs fault. I see little reason to run more than a 600b spring on the front of a 3rd gen even with weight, but I do like a softer and controlled ride.
 
I have 891s and 5125s in the rear. No weight. So soft it's comical. Think the only way to get softer is run Kings. Try changing out just your shocks first.

Interesting that you say that I just got my 891s today, and rear Kings should be here in 2-3 weeks. Sounds like my girls won't be complaining about a jarring ride.

Not to side track the conversation, how much lift did you get, and currently get from the 891s?
 
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Interesting that you say that I just got my 891s today, and rear Kings should be here in 2-3 weeks. Sounds like my girls won't be complaining about a jarring ride.

Not to side track the conversation, how much lift did you get, and currently get from the 891s?

Empty hub to fender is 24 to 24.5 depending on gas. Ya know, half the time people complain about a jarring ride, it's less a suspension issue and more a tire problem. Like all the dudes running Load D's and E's for no apparent reason...... like riding on a bag of hammers.
 
Interesting that you say that I just got my 891s today, and rear Kings should be here in 2-3 weeks. Sounds like my girls won't be complaining about a jarring ride.

Not to side track the conversation, how much lift did you get, and currently get from the 891s?

I have 891s with the firm OME shocks in the rear and its ridiculously rough. I think I'll be ordering some long 5100s from wheelers soon and hopefully that'll help quite a bit.

I got 2.6" over stock lift in the rear and it doesn't sag much at all when loaded with a few hundred lbs.
 
Empty hub to fender is 24 to 24.5 depending on gas. Ya know, half the time people complain about a jarring ride, it's less a suspension issue and more a tire problem. Like all the dudes running Load D's and E's for no apparent reason...... like riding on a bag of hammers.

Tires definitely matter but I went from a stock tire to 33" E-load Falkens with pretty much no change in ride quality. Equally jarring before and after with the 891s and firm OME shocks. Just mentioned in my previous post how I'm planning on swapping shocks like you suggested.
 
Tires definitely matter but I went from a stock tire to 33" E-load Falkens with pretty much no change in ride quality. Equally jarring before and after with the 891s and firm OME shocks. Just mentioned in my previous post how I'm planning on swapping shocks like you suggested.

Agreed, tires matter but not that much. I went from worn out original shocks & springs w/ passenger rated Revo's to Tundra/LC, Tundra 5100's & D rated 33's & the ride was much better.
 
Agreed, tires matter but not that much. I went from worn out original shocks & springs w/ passenger rated Revo's to Tundra/LC, Tundra 5100's & D rated 33's & the ride was much better.

I agree also. I have “E” rated tires with kings and 890s and the ride was terrible. I replaced all of the control arm bushings fr and rr and the thing rides like a caddy now. I think the initial suspension travel was harsh because it was the control arms banging around instead of the shocks compressing. The ft lower bushings and all the rear bushings were complete shot.
 
I got them installed!

Before, Ground to Fender (on 33s)
Driver front 38.0"
Driver rear 38.5

Now:
Driver front 36.9"
Druver rear 37.8"

If my math checks, I am m now roughly 1.5-1.75" above stock up front, and about 2.25" above stock in the rear.

These measurements were only after a quick jaunt around the neighborhood. I am going to do a little wheelin' tomorrow to see how things have changed, but my initial impression is that there is a bit more brake dive, and perhaps a little less side-to-side rocking over off-axis bumps. If that latter observation holds true, I would attribute that to the shocks no longer being overpowered by the coils.
 
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Sounds like you’re sitting where you expected height wise. How do the 890’s feel over big dips compared to the Superflex? I’ll be interested about your impression after being loaded down and offroad. What are you planning on doing with the rear shocks? See how they handle offroad with the new setup and make a decision to keep or replace after that?
 
Sounds like you’re sitting where you expected height wise. How do the 890’s feel over big dips compared to the Superflex? I’ll be interested about your impression after being loaded down and offroad. What are you planning on doing with the rear shocks? See how they handle offroad with the new setup and make a decision to keep or replace after that?
Exactly that! I will see how they handle over the next week, and maybe swap in some 0-2.3" 5100s or something for the rear.
 
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Had a fun day! Thanks for all the advice, and a special thanks to [MENTION=68460]Dezert4Runner[/MENTION] for the coil swap. I drove about 100 miles, ranging from city and highway, to gravel roads and deep mud.

Stance / Height:
Front: 36.7 (prev 38.25 at this air pressure)
Rear: 37.38 (prev 38.75 at this air pressure)

Lost about 1.55" front and 1.38" rear, and am estimating about 1.25-1.5" above stock up front, and 1.75 above stock in the rear.

Ride quality
City: Noticable, especially as the roads get worse. I had actually been running my E-rated 33s at 25 PSI the last couple days to experiment with the feel, and my new suspension was still notably softer even with the tires aired back up to about 36psi. My wife rode with me for about 5 miles of this city driving, and she quickly commented how it was a smoother ride. Brake dive has increased, but Id say any technical increase im body roll is, in actual road feel, pretty much offset by the lower roll center.

Fast dirt / gravel roads with occasional potholes and washboard (30-50mph): Notably less jarring to hit those unexpected bumps.

Bumpy / undulating trails (3-15mph): A nice difference here! Whereas before I described it as not unlike being in a hotwheels car as the body seemed to pitch and roll over every bump, I could now feel the suspension articulating as a tire or axle went over a bump. I won't pretend it was like a fancy stadium truck with big cushy shocks and 16" of wheel travel that soaks up everything without spilling the driver's drink. But, it should really help minimize the kid's head-bobbling.

Load capacity:
Going with the 190lb/in spring rates, combining to 380lb/in, I should theoretically be able to carry another ~250lbs over the rear axle before the rear sags lower than the front. For simple overnight camping trips with my wife, kid, and dogs, that is more than enough. To be fair, I could see myself going camping with two extra adults and another 100lb of gear, which would add about 400lb roughly over the rear axle. This would result in roughly .37" of reverse rake (rear 3/8" lower than the front). Historically, all such trips have been over short distances, and occurred once or maybe twice a year, so I am not sure it is worth investing in airbags. However, 10mm trim packers could be useful to get an extra .4", which would perfectly offset the above hypothetical load.

I simulated ~400lb of tongue weight by throwing 22gal of gas and 25gal of water on my swing-out tray (390lb).

Result:
Front: 37" (lifted about 3/8"!)
Rear: 36" (dropped about 1-3/8")

This is a very extreme case for us. I don't own a trailer or boat, and would only ever carry that much liquid weight for bugging out from a hurricane or zombie attack. And, in reality, Id probably try to stuff the water in the floorboards and probably the gas in the cargo area to spread the weight and, to be frank, hide it from prying eyes.

Each pair of pics is a before / after, plus the last two which are of the fuel and water load / sag.
 

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Glad you got them installed and put through their paces. Lots of good info for anyone researching OME 890 vs Toytec Superflex coils in the future too.
 
For sure!

To be fair, I should also say I almost certainly lost a little articulation, and any sense of a "sporty" ride is pretty much gone. Of course, I say "sporty" in relative terms: my wife's TRDP is actually surprisingly fun in twisty mountain roads, and my old setup wasnt too far off that (with a bit more body roll). But, now it doesnt even inspire any sort of turn-tossing, heh.
 
There's compromise in everything I suppose. You get tired of the negative rake loaded up let me know and I'll trade you my 891 for your 890s. I don't really care for the amount of rake I have with my front suspension and I'm rarely ever loaded enough to justify the extra load rating
 
There's compromise in everything I suppose. You get tired of the negative rake loaded up let me know and I'll trade you my 891 for your 890s. I don't really care for the amount of rake I have with my front suspension and I'm rarely ever loaded enough to justify the extra load rating
By my math, my 400lb behind the rear bumper is the equivalent of 800lb directly over the rear axles.

Like I said above, for the vast majority of my uses, I won't have any issues. If I find myself more regularly carrying additional passengers into the boonies for camping trips, I might add some trim packers. On the rare occasion I add more than 400lb of junk in the back, I'll just accept a little reverse rake :)
 
I might have underestimated my weight added! Factory curb weight is supposed to be 3930lb for my vehicle. I just weighed mine at ~4920, including about 40lb of misc gear and 36lb of gas. About 100lb of that is my heavier tires, which means I have like 800lb of gear and equipment over stock?!
 
I might have underestimated my weight added! Factory curb weight is supposed to be 3930lb for my vehicle. I just weighed mine at ~4920, including about 40lb of misc gear and 36lb of gas. About 100lb of that is my heavier tires, which means I have like 800lb of gear and equipment over stock?!

Too much with the numbers lol.

Are you having any issues with your current springs? If not then relax n run em. Truck looks good. ;)

I just hauled two loads of 1000 lbs of pellets with a lighter version of OME rear springs. Not a single plm but I feel my 4600 shocks could be a little stiffer.
 
Haha, I am only posting it as further refinement of information for future searchers. I am very, very pleased with my new setup :) .

But, numbers kinda spin around in my head 24/7, so there is no turning it off lol.
 
The front end is way flexier now so I've been rubbing like mad in places that had never previously been an issue, heh. I've just been trim-trim-trimming away!
 

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