User Tag List

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-14-2012, 04:29 PM #1
mom's Avatar
mom mom is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Cupertino, CA
Posts: 196
mom is on a distinguished road
mom mom is offline
Banned
mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Cupertino, CA
Posts: 196
mom is on a distinguished road
Camber gauge TOOL thread: What accuracy needed to DIY alignment & what tool at ~$250?

To check camber before & after taking the vehicle to the shop to be aligned:
Q: What accuracy is needed in a home DIY camber tool?
Q: What tools are available that achieve that accuracy at home?

And would you recommend the camber gauge shown in the FSM?

Note: I searched for, and read all the threads in the 3rd gen T4Rs forum which had camber in the title, but not a single 3rd-gen thread showed what tools they used nor the procedure they used to check camber at home.

The closest I found was this Yotatech home alignment DIY:
* 86-95 Trucks & 4Runners 2nd/3rd gen pickups, and 1st/2nd gen 4Runners with IFS

Which, amazingly, used a plumb bob.

But it's for the wrong model years (mine is a 1997 2WD Base 4Runner) so I'm not sure how much applies.

To check camber before & after taking the vehicle to the shop to be aligned:
Q: What accuracy is needed (for example, is 1/8° desired?)
Q: What tools are available that achieve that desired accuracy at home?

Last edited by mom; 08-16-2012 at 01:32 PM. Reason: Changed title to reflect the tool nature of the question.
mom is offline  
Old 08-14-2012, 07:30 PM #2
Stick Figure's Avatar
Stick Figure Stick Figure is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: San Jose,CA
Age: 47
Posts: 2,017
Stick Figure will become famous soon enough
Stick Figure Stick Figure is offline
Senior Member
Stick Figure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: San Jose,CA
Age: 47
Posts: 2,017
Stick Figure will become famous soon enough
When I did a quick set up of my own after the lift to get it by for the drive to the alignment shop I used a piece of wood across the wheel and an angle finder



similar to that.

If you are looking for something to actually set your alignment perfectly, they do make specific tools for that but I have never used them myself to recommend one over another.
Stick Figure is offline  
Old 08-15-2012, 02:25 AM #3
mom's Avatar
mom mom is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Cupertino, CA
Posts: 196
mom is on a distinguished road
mom mom is offline
Banned
mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Cupertino, CA
Posts: 196
mom is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stick Figure View Post
I used a piece of wood across the wheel and an angle finder
Thanks for the advice.

I saw many camber DIYs similar to what you suggest, where the user measures the offset of the 12 o'clock & 6 o'clock positions of the wheel with respect to a line perpendicular to the ground, and then uses trig to calculate the angle based on the distance delta.

The good news is that available measurement technology is constantly improving. For example, just as you described, this camber DIY used a block of wood & an iPhone as the measuring device.


The key question is what accuracy is needed ... and what accuracy can be obtained?

BTW, here's a picture showing the result of what may turn out to be grossly maladjusted camber ... the tread is worn off to the belts (even though the vehicle was presumably aligned 12K miles ago by Goodyear when the tires were installed).



Here are pictures of the passenger side front eccentric:
Note: The yellow line was done by me prior to the alignment ... so it shows how much the alignment guy moved the eccentric. After having been burned, I always mark before an alignment and check after.
Note: I don't trust any alignment shops anymore - after having been burned twice by the crooks - so I want to check the alignment both before and after I take it to the shop to be aligned again!

Driver's side front eccentric:
Note: The rust is from unrelated battery acid spillage.


The goal of this thread is to scope what accuracy is needed and obtainable for a home DIY camber gauge ... so that I can check my camber before and after bringing it to the shop to be aligned.

Last edited by mom; 08-16-2012 at 01:49 PM.
mom is offline  
Old 08-15-2012, 03:20 AM #4
blizz86's Avatar
blizz86 blizz86 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: LA/OC
Posts: 1,049
Real Name: Brian - 20
blizz86 is on a distinguished road
blizz86 blizz86 is offline
Senior Member
blizz86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: LA/OC
Posts: 1,049
Real Name: Brian - 20
blizz86 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by mom View Post
Thanks for the advice. I'm shocked that there isn't a single 3rd-generation 4Runner home alignment DIY on this entire forum!

Let's hope we can find a good supplier for the necessary camber measurements.

Here's a picture showing why I think my camber is grossly off, by the way ... the tread is worn off to the belts in just about 12K miles (even though the vehicle was aligned prior).



Notice the eccentric on that side of the vehicle is set vastly different than the complementary eccentric for the other side:

Passenger side front eccentric:
Note: The yellow was done by me prior to the alignment ... so it shows how much the alignment guy moved the eccentric.
Note: I don't trust any alignment shops anymore - after having been burned twice by the crooks.

Driver's side front eccentric:
Note: The rust is from unrelated battery acid spillage.
All alignments ive had done professionally have been spot on.. try to find places that use the hunter systems and watch them while they actually do it to make sure the techs are actually following the computerized measurements
__________________
2000 Limited 4x2 Build - OME lift // Tundra Brake Upgrade // Wet Okole // 265/70/16 Michelin X Radial LT2 // 3" FXR + 50 w Morimoto 5k // 1.25" Spidertraxx 4 corners
2012 SR5 4x4 [Magnetic Gray]: Stock suspension // OPOR TE sliders (trimmed rocker panels) // Husky Mudguards // CMG Roof Rack
blizz86 is offline  
Old 08-15-2012, 06:17 AM #5
98Base4R 98Base4R is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 72
98Base4R is on a distinguished road
98Base4R 98Base4R is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 72
98Base4R is on a distinguished road
Besides tire wear, are there any other issues? If not, it could be a defective tire.

If you want to solve this, you need to start with two new tires on the front, so you have some kind of base line to work from.

From there, you can:
1) Put a wrench on the camber adjustment, and put it back to where you think it should be, assuming the original alignment tech made a mistake 12k miles ago. Of course you without an alignment rack and precision tools would just be guessing...
2) Go back to the original shop, complain about the job and ask for a re-do. The shop may point out a) you could have a bad tire, b) you may have hit a curb, c) any other thing that may have happened over the past year to knock the camber out of whack.
3) Take it to a new shop, have it aligned, keep the print out and receipt.

Once you have made a choice, check every 2k miles. One idea would be to pick a nice level concrete driveway. Make a large puddle with a garden hose, drive through, and observe the water marks the tires make. The tread should look about the same side to side, there shouldn't be crabbing to the side, etc. First sign of trouble or wear, take it back to the shop that does the work and get it back on the rack.

Good luck!
__________________
02 4Runner SR5, 2WD, 250k, kid's car

98 4Runner Base, 2WD, 2.7L 4cyl, sold at 264k. Great truck, but the 4cyl just doesn't have enough power
98Base4R is offline  
Old 08-15-2012, 08:34 AM #6
98OzarksRunner's Avatar
98OzarksRunner 98OzarksRunner is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ozark, MO
Posts: 1,068
98OzarksRunner is on a distinguished road
98OzarksRunner 98OzarksRunner is offline
Senior Member
98OzarksRunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ozark, MO
Posts: 1,068
98OzarksRunner is on a distinguished road
My guess is that the right tools would cost far more than the alignment (~$60).

Like I always recommend, find a shop with a guy who has lots of gray hair, smokes like a chimney and cusses like a sailor -that's the guy you want. Someone who's been doing alignments for 30 years, and has done them on something other than McPherson struts, will know what they're doing and usually do a good job. It'll be more accurate and cheaper than trying to do it yourself (there's probably a reason they use very expensive alignment racks instead of tape measures and level/inclinometers - you're probably not going to get it measured correctly down to .25 degree with an inclinometer).

I've done 'driveway alignments' and gotten it close enough to drive to the alignment shop but would never trust them long-term. An alignment is much cheaper than one tire, much less two.
__________________
2002 T4R Limited, 191K miles - OME 883 front - LC 7 wrap/2nd gen sway bar links rear - Detroit Truetrac Diff - Cooper A/T3s - Warn M8000 - ARB Bumper - homemade (er, 'custom') rear bumper w/tire & can carrier - BajaRack - Diff Breather Mod - Hayden trans cooler - Yaesu 2M, Cobra CB - Fridge, off-road trailer with Tepui RTT (real expo poser)
In Africa they say: "Buy a Land Rover and it will take you anywhere. Buy a Toyota and it will take you there ... and bring you back home." jannikt on wranglerforum.com - I'm guessing he didn't make many friends there with that line.

Last edited by 98OzarksRunner; 08-15-2012 at 08:39 AM.
98OzarksRunner is offline  
Old 08-15-2012, 09:19 AM #7
BlackCat914 BlackCat914 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 1,458
Real Name: Steve
BlackCat914 is on a distinguished road
BlackCat914 BlackCat914 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 1,458
Real Name: Steve
BlackCat914 is on a distinguished road
buy 2 new tires and then align. How can you get an accurate alignment when your tires look like you entered in the local burn out contest?
BlackCat914 is offline  
Old 08-15-2012, 10:08 AM #8
Stick Figure's Avatar
Stick Figure Stick Figure is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: San Jose,CA
Age: 47
Posts: 2,017
Stick Figure will become famous soon enough
Stick Figure Stick Figure is offline
Senior Member
Stick Figure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: San Jose,CA
Age: 47
Posts: 2,017
Stick Figure will become famous soon enough
I haven't had a good alignment guy in a while since I've been moving a bit in the last few years, and for the truck I went firestone lifetime. partially for the fact that I knew it wouldn't stay stock, and partially for the fact that it takes the biggest risk of needing suspension replaced and the alignment touched up before a long drive back home. I figured if I can minimize the potential cost of an out of town repair that's a win win.

I will ask some of the guys at work who have lived in the bay area much longer than I who a good shop is around here. My usual suggestion is to stay away from tire store and find a shop that specializes in frame repair.
Stick Figure is offline  
Old 08-15-2012, 01:16 PM #9
SCRunner12's Avatar
SCRunner12 SCRunner12 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Age: 37
Posts: 4,989
Real Name: Robert
SCRunner12 will become famous soon enough
SCRunner12 SCRunner12 is offline
Senior Member
SCRunner12's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Age: 37
Posts: 4,989
Real Name: Robert
SCRunner12 will become famous soon enough
There's a great shop in Santa Cruz Stick Figure if you ever need it. Soquel Alignment and Exhaust. The guy deals with lifted vehicles all the time and does strictly alignments and exhaust. In an hour he was able to fix my alignment issues that another shop couldn't do after four trips and multiple hours.
__________________
My 4runner Build Thread 2000 Limited 4runner SOLD

My Tundra Build Thread 2006 Double Cab Tundra SOLD

My Humpty Dumpty 4runner Build Thread 1999 Highlander 4runner
SCRunner12 is offline  
Old 08-15-2012, 01:22 PM #10
mom's Avatar
mom mom is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Cupertino, CA
Posts: 196
mom is on a distinguished road
mom mom is offline
Banned
mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Cupertino, CA
Posts: 196
mom is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by 98Base4R View Post
Besides tire wear, are there any other issues? If not, it could be a defective tire.
It's OT, but a separate thread with gory details about the tire-wear problem is here:
- Advice sought for the likely cause of premature front right tire wear (11k miles)


Quote:
Originally Posted by 98Base4R View Post
you need to start with two new tires
That's a different issue than what tool to buy that tests camber.

For example, this camber measuring tool mounts on the wheel:

And, this camber measuring tool mounts on the rotor:


With or without new tires, this thread is posed to ask what camber tool is available today that will do a good enough job at a decent enough price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 98Base4R View Post
without an alignment rack and precision tools would just be guessing...
I agree "guessing" would occur if we spec out a tool that doesn't have the desired accuracy.

The question then becomes ...

Q: What accuracy do we 'need'?

The camber spec for my 4Runner is - ¼° ± ¾° which indicates, I think, that all we need is roughly about ½° accuracy in the home alignment camber tool. (Is my math correct?)

In fact, I think that's why a plumb bob worked in the Yodatech home alignment DIY (i.e., 0°).


Since you bring up the great point about accuracy, may I ask:
Q: What accuracy do we need for camber measurements on our 3rd-generation 4Runners?
Q: Does at least ½° accuracy seem reasonable to you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 98Base4R View Post
observe the water marks the tires make.
That's an interesting idea for checking camber!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 98OzarksRunner View Post
My guess is that the right tools would cost far more than the alignment (~$60)
I agree. Cost is a relevant factor when selecting a tool.

To quick-price the alternative, I just called Capitol Toyota in San Jose.
Here's their pricing for what I'd need to do for the current problem.

1. Check front end components = $145 (exclusive of repairs)
2. Alignment = $88 (Note: an alignment w/o a prior check would be a waste of money in this case, even if the ultimate problem turns out to be 'only' the alignment because you can't do it in the reverse order!)

So the cost, for me, is roughly $150 + $100 ~= $250, which becomes (roughly) my initial budget for the caster gauge. If I can identify the problem for about $250, then I break even with having Toyota identify the problem.

Note: If you can show me an alignment shop in the Silicon Valley who does an alignment for appreciably less than $88, I would be thankful as that changes the math (but I called around before posting this query and found that this is a pretty good price in this area).

The good news is that we can use the camber gauge again and again and again, which makes its ultimate cost about 1/10th the original cost, which is roughly about $25 per use over time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 98OzarksRunner View Post
you're probably not going to get it measured correctly down to .25 degree
Accuracy is definitely relevant.

What 'accuracy' do you think we need, given the spec is - ¼° ± ¾° (and given that one wheel may be grossly out of spec)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 98OzarksRunner View Post
An alignment is much cheaper than one tire, much less two.
An alignment out here is roughly around $100 ... which is roughly the price of one tire, certainly not anywhere near the price of two tires (out here anyway).

But that's all moot because the topic is camber gauges that fulfill, I think, these conditions:
I) Accurate enough (how much accuracy do we need given Toyota specs are ±¾°)?
II) Cheap enough, i.e., roughly under around $250 (which means the cost per alignment is about $25 assuming it will be used ten times in my lifetime)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackCat914 View Post
buy 2 new tires and then align.
That's a different issue than what tool to use. That information will eventually be useful for the upcoming first-ever Toyota-4Runner.org 3rd-gen garage alignment diy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stick Figure View Post
find a shop that specializes in frame repair.
The point of this thread is the tool. May I ask if these are the key specs we should strive to satisfy?

a) Somewhere around ½° accuracy?
b) Somwhere less than about $250 in cost?
Attached Images
Where do you buy your tools for checking front camber at home on your 4runner?-digital_angle_gauge-jpg 

Last edited by mom; 08-15-2012 at 05:58 PM.
mom is offline  
Old 08-15-2012, 02:08 PM #11
Nelsonmd's Avatar
Nelsonmd Nelsonmd is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Boston MA
Age: 40
Posts: 3,394
Nelsonmd is on a distinguished road
Nelsonmd Nelsonmd is offline
Senior Member
Nelsonmd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Boston MA
Age: 40
Posts: 3,394
Nelsonmd is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by mom View Post
Q: Where did you buy your tools for checking your front camber at home?

And do you use the tools shown in the FSM?
forum which had camber in the title, but not a single 3rd-gen thread showed what tools they used nor the procedure they used to check camber at home.

The closest I found was this Yotatech home alignment DIY:
* 86-95 Trucks & 4Runners 2nd/3rd gen pickups, and 1st/2nd gen 4Runners with IFS

Which, amazingly, used a plumb bob.

But it's for the wrong model years (mine is a 1997 2WD Base 4Runner) so I'm not sure how much applies.

Q: What tools do you use and where do you buy them when you check your front camber at home?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mom View Post
Thanks for the advice. I'm shocked that there isn't a single 3rd-generation 4Runner home alignment DIY on this entire forum!

Let's hope we can find a good supplier for the necessary camber measurements.

Here's a picture showing why I think my camber is grossly off, by the way ... the tread is worn off to the belts in just about 12K miles (even though the vehicle was aligned prior).

Notice the eccentric on that side of the vehicle is set vastly different than the complementary eccentric for the other side:

Passenger side front eccentric:
Note: The yellow was done by me prior to the alignment ... so it shows how much the alignment guy moved the eccentric.
Note: I don't trust any alignment shops anymore - after having been burned twice by the crooks.

Driver's side front eccentric:
Note: The rust is from unrelated battery acid spillage.
Take a step back before jumping right into doing your own alignment... Make sure you fully understand what an alignment is before shunning the shops.

First, camber is the same animal no matter the model, year, etc., they just adjust differently and have different specs. The procedure in the yotatech link would not change 1 iota if it were written specifically for the 3rd gen (except for the pics and video's, which don't show up for me anyway). The measurement system he describes is valid for any vehicle on the road; you don't need a toyota brand ruler to measure the size of your toyota wheels.

Second, even if you diligently follow this system, you still won't be able to match the accuracy of a shop grade alignment system. Not all shops have the latest and greatest, but the last shop I went to had an $80k optical machine that gave the live readout on the screen, and the tech just had to adjust while staring at the screen; super easy to get it dead center in spec. That isn't to say they won't still screw it up (my steering wheel didn't get centered properly), but as far as the alignment goes, it is way more foolproof than doing it in your driveway. Even lower tech alignment machines will be better than plumb lines and tape measures.

What do you mean by "having been burned twice by the crooks"? The alignment shop screwed you over twice, or just "shops" in general? I agree with everyone that has suggested looking for a better shop, or watching the tech do it (if they'll let you). Actually understand what the alignment is before you watch them do it, ask questions, and above all, be very friendly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mom View Post
Q: Where did you buy your tools for checking your front camber at home?

And do you use the tools shown in the FSM?
Note: I searched for, and read all the threads in the 3rd gen T4Rs forum which had camber in the title, but not a single 3rd-gen thread showed what tools they used nor the procedure they used to check camber at home.

The closest I found was this Yotatech home alignment DIY:
* 86-95 Trucks & 4Runners 2nd/3rd gen pickups, and 1st/2nd gen 4Runners with IFS

Which, amazingly, used a plumb bob.

But it's for the wrong model years (mine is a 1997 2WD Base 4Runner) so I'm not sure how much applies.

Q: What tools do you use and where do you buy them when you check your front camber at home?
There are lots of ways you can measure camber, you have to decide which way is best for you at home (meaning which can you get the most accurate, reliable measurement with)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mom View Post
This thread is about the tools needed for checking camber, whether or not there is tire wear.

A separate thread about the tire-wear problem is here:
- [URL="http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/118388-advice-sought-likely-cause-premature-front-right-tire-wear-11k-miles.html"]This thread is all about obtaining the camber measurement tools at a reasonable price for home use.

The camber spec for my 4Runner is ¼° ± ¾° which indicates all we need is about ¾° or ½° accuracy in the home alignment camber tool.

In fact, that's why a plumb bob worked in the Yodatech home alignment DIY (i.e., 0°).

I'm looking for a reasonably priced camber-test tool that will get us at least ¾° or ½° accuracy.
Don't assume this is possible. Less than 1° accuracy is decently tight. it's nothing for porfessional equipment, but that is way out of the price range, and since not many people do their own alignments (like nearly no one), there isn't much market for at home tools for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mom View Post
I agree. Cost is a factor. I just called Capitol Toyota in San Jose. Here's the pricing:

1. Check front end components = $145 (exclusive of repairs)
2. Alignment = $88

So the cost, for me, is roughly $150 + $100 ~= $250, which becomes my initial budget for the caster gauge.
Your cost would be $88 for an alignment. You don't need a front end inspection first. They are trying to get you to pay them extra for the privilege of them telling you need even more work done to your vehicle than the alignment, which they will happy to charge you even more to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mom View Post
This is relevant. What 'accuracy' do you think we need, given the spec is ¼° ± ¾° (and given that one wheel may be grossly out of spec)?

An alignment out here is roughly around $100 ... which is roughly the price of one tire, certainly not anywhere near the price of two tires (out here anyway).

But that's all moot because the topic is caster gauges that fulfill, I think, these conditions:
a) Accurate enough (how much accuracy do we need? I'm guessing ½° should be fine)?

b) Cheap enough, i.e., roughly under around $250.
1/2° is probably acceptable, but I doubt that you can really achieve that in your driveway. You may be able to "measure" within 1/2°, but that will be with an unverifiable, un-calibrated measurement system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mom View Post
That's a different issue than what tool to use. That information will eventually be useful for the upcoming first-ever Toyota-4Runner.org 3rd-gen garage alignment diy.
Here's where I will sound a little bit like a jerk. Please don't do a DIY alignment write-up. I know you write extremely detailed and illustrated write-ups, which is fine, but honestly, because of the questions you are asking about this, I don't think you understand the subject well enough to provide sound advice for people to follow and do a good job (that won't mess up their shop alignment, or cause premature wear like you have).

I don't mean that as an insult, there's a reason engineers design the tools and adjustment mechanisms, and a reason that Toyota pays someone with a degree in engineering good money to design and write the procedure for the shops. It is not as simple as it looks. If it were, then Toyota wouldn't have to include it in the FSM, it would just be a common procedure like pumping up a tire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mom View Post
The point of this thread is the tool. May I ask if these are the key specs we should strive to satisfy?

a) About ½° accuracy?
b) About $250 in cost?
You cannot meet the 1/2° accuracy because you cannot verify it. You may be able to get it acceptably aligned, but you cannot make any statements about X° accuracy. If you understand wheel alignment, your measurement system, etc. then you can take the risk upon yourself to do your own alignment in your own way, but you cannot write up a DIY saying that your method works, and gets the vehicle within spec.
__________________
2000 SR5 3.4L V6 Automatic 4x4, e-locker, 175k Miles, Rust
Imp. Jade Mica with Oak Leather Interior, Field Monitor Unit - B&M Tranny Cooler - SG2 - New (to me) rear axle assembly - Goodyear Duratrac 265/75-16 - 1.8" Ironman Front Lift, OME 906/Procomp 9000 Shocks

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-ge...ld-thread.html

Last edited by Nelsonmd; 08-15-2012 at 02:12 PM.
Nelsonmd is offline  
Old 08-15-2012, 02:13 PM #12
nevada's Avatar
nevada nevada is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: washington
Posts: 4,990
nevada has a spectacular aura about nevada has a spectacular aura about nevada has a spectacular aura about
nevada nevada is offline
Senior Member
nevada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: washington
Posts: 4,990
nevada has a spectacular aura about nevada has a spectacular aura about nevada has a spectacular aura about
you need guide plates to allow the tire to set in a neutral position.
aswell as a way to properly connect the caster/camber gauge to the wheel. generally a wheel clamp is used. these parts are very expensive. i think the wheel clamps are around $250 each.


for the price of the correct tools, you would be able to purchase a dozen alignments. not to mention, even with the tools, if you dont know what you're doing, how do you know the ends results will be what you want?
nevada is offline  
Old 08-15-2012, 02:17 PM #13
Nelsonmd's Avatar
Nelsonmd Nelsonmd is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Boston MA
Age: 40
Posts: 3,394
Nelsonmd is on a distinguished road
Nelsonmd Nelsonmd is offline
Senior Member
Nelsonmd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Boston MA
Age: 40
Posts: 3,394
Nelsonmd is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevada View Post
you need guide plates to allow the tire to set in a neutral position.
aswell as a way to properly connect the caster/camber gauge to the wheel. generally a wheel clamp is used. these parts are very expensive. i think the wheel clamps are around $250 each.


for the price of the correct tools, you would be able to purchase a dozen alignments. not to mention, even with the tools, if you dont know what you're doing, how do you know the ends results will be what you want?
Hmmmmm, that was a much more succinct way of saying what I said... I think I wasted 15 minutes of my life typing...
__________________
2000 SR5 3.4L V6 Automatic 4x4, e-locker, 175k Miles, Rust
Imp. Jade Mica with Oak Leather Interior, Field Monitor Unit - B&M Tranny Cooler - SG2 - New (to me) rear axle assembly - Goodyear Duratrac 265/75-16 - 1.8" Ironman Front Lift, OME 906/Procomp 9000 Shocks

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-ge...ld-thread.html
Nelsonmd is offline  
Old 08-15-2012, 02:18 PM #14
nevada's Avatar
nevada nevada is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: washington
Posts: 4,990
nevada has a spectacular aura about nevada has a spectacular aura about nevada has a spectacular aura about
nevada nevada is offline
Senior Member
nevada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: washington
Posts: 4,990
nevada has a spectacular aura about nevada has a spectacular aura about nevada has a spectacular aura about
also, having a tool with 1/2* of accuracy wont help. it needs to be correct.

if you have a 1/2 to play with, and the vehicle allows 1/2 for its specificed range, you could be a FULL degree out, if they both end up being "off" the same direction.


or you could have one side off 1 degree to the positive, and the other side could be off 1 degree to the negative.
this is BAD, and will likely cause a bad pull, aswell as excessive tire wear.
a driveway alignment is a bad idea. unless its just to get you to the shop to have it done correctly.

alignments are cheap compared to tires.

Last edited by nevada; 08-15-2012 at 03:26 PM.
nevada is offline  
Old 08-15-2012, 03:23 PM #15
Stick Figure's Avatar
Stick Figure Stick Figure is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: San Jose,CA
Age: 47
Posts: 2,017
Stick Figure will become famous soon enough
Stick Figure Stick Figure is offline
Senior Member
Stick Figure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: San Jose,CA
Age: 47
Posts: 2,017
Stick Figure will become famous soon enough
The other thing that I don't know if it has been mentioned is the Caster vs Camber adjustment. Most of the tools that you have posted will work for adjusting camber, the problem is how easy it is to absolutely screw your caster up trying to bring the camber into spec.

I'm about as big of a DIYer as you will find and work in the auto field (have for over 16 years) but alignments are one of those things that I have learned are easier to pay someone else to do than to buy everything you need to do it right at home.

I have adjusted camber as said before with a angle finder and 2x4 and have used two equal length pieces of angle iron clamped to the rotors to adjust toe. You can certainly get things close enough to drive to an alignment shop or to get your off road vehicle set up well enough to crawl over rocks.

I would still suggest to find a GOOD alignment shop (like the one SCRunner12 suggested) and make sure they stand behind their work to take care of a vehicle that sees high speeds and daily driving on concrete where tire where and vehicle stability is a major concern.
Stick Figure is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
alignment , camber , front end alignment diy , tire wear

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What tools do you suggest for checking front toe-in at home on your 4runner? mom 3rd gen T4Rs 1 07-03-2012 01:59 PM
Checking front brake pads? dat5574 Maintenance/Detailing 2 05-14-2011 05:53 PM
Checking front small door speaker - how to access? hombrewdude Maintenance/Detailing 5 03-21-2006 10:24 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:11 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
***This site is an unofficial Toyota site, and is not officially endorsed, supported, authorized by or affiliated with Toyota. All company, product, or service names references in this web site are used for identification purposes only and may be trademarks of their respective owners. The Toyota name, marks, designs and logos, as well as Toyota model names, are registered trademarks of Toyota Motor Corporation***Ad Management plugin by RedTyger
 
Copyright © 2020