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Old 09-19-2013, 02:20 AM #1
kevro2000 kevro2000 is offline
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dumbfounded. Crazy unsafe shimmy over 60. not tie rods, lbj, rack,.....help!!!

So... I have very few posts as I typically search for days and find the answers I seek. My 1996 runner showed up to me with minor front damage to passenger headlight. the fender was slightly bent as was the bumper by the front wheel. It was driven home, although I had to watch my left turns as the passenger wheel would catch the bent portion of the bumper if I turned sharply.
on the way home this awful shimmy was there in full force. I have driven several friends runners through the years and all of them had seen hard times in the sand in mexico and had similar (i realize now not the same) shimmy at 65-70 that went away over 70+. I took it easy on the way home and didnt think much of it as I assumed it needed what all runners need. new suspension parts and properly balanced tires and wheels along with steering rack bushings.
i tell you all this to give you all the real truth about what I know, cuz at this point im f-ing dumbfounded.

since the very first time i drove this truck one thing has remained 100% exactly the same in every way. it shakes and shimmys like a mofo at anything over 65 mph. there is no point at all that it gets better beyond that speed. its scary, its unsafe, and its gonna force me to push it off a cliff soon (simply selling it would A. make me an a$$hole. B. Not be nearly gratifying enough. )
there are many things that have changed through the parts changes, however the shimmy shake has not changed in the SLIGHTEST.

I should have addressed this BEFORE DOING ANYTHING ELSE, I didnt, and I realize this was stupid. So lets please put my stupidity aside for now, once solved I will admit I am am an idiot again.

1-happened across a set of 17" tacoma wheels on stock tires. bald. - the shimmy shake changed in absolutely no way at all.

2-I needed new tires of course, this led me to treadwright guard dogs (265-70-17) I of course needed spacers (ebay 1.25') and I needed lift. I nabbed a set of yellow and blue tundra bilsteins with yy yb springs and out back I added a set of the shortest lc springs, I cant remember the # wraps, combined with oem landcruiser shocks from toyota. - the shimmy shake changed in absolutely no way at all ( I did like the truck a whole lot more)

3-new moog LBJ on both sides - no change at all

4-poly steering rack bushings - more controlled car, shimmy shake is identical. still extremely frightening to drive over 65mph

5-brand new inner and outer tie rods - no change at all

6-steering rack guide upgrade- again better overall car - no change at all in shimmy shake.

7-new steering rack from safari unlimited in co. absolutely no change at all. (mine was leaking badly anyway)

8-jacked up car, play in passenger wheel, hands at 1030 and 430 give me 1/4 - 1/2 inch play, obvious knock.

9-replaced LBJ on passenger side with autozone unit (handy and was heading to mexico) - absolutely no change, I assume this one will not make it long.

10. moved front wheels to back - absolutely 100% exactly the same.

11 -put spare (original 4 runner) on passenger side front and then drivers side front with no spacer - no change at all

at no point during all of this has the shake and shimmy changed in the slightest. the car has certainly changed in other ways, gotten tighter. gotten a little less straight line stable ( 0 caster after lift)

I have a lifetime alignment at firestone, they have actually been stellar. they have aligned it every parts change and every trip off the pavement (only ever sand in rocky point)

the truck nowadays feels like it moves side to side over bumps, I attribute this to the lack of a panhard drop or extended bar. BUT even over slightly imperfect roads (most roads in phoenix are like glass) the car feels totally out of control at anything over 50.

I am getting the panhard drop, I have gone over the u-joints closely and see nothing out of the ordinary. the cv axles up front have started spewing grease since I took ownership (no diff drop, I know, I know..) but they were indeed in good shape when I took ownership and up until my first trip to mexico.

12-6 on the wheel - no play at all
3-9 on the wheel - no play at all

from day one, bone stock to current state. the shimmy is the SAME.

I can go 5-20 mph and the steering wheel is ROCK SOLID STRAIGHT, doesnt even wiggle. dead straight.

braking, not a hint of a wiggle, hauls to a stop quickly and straight.

when its shimmying it the hood flops side to side, the passenger door bangs around in the door jamb. it feels like everything from the front bumper to just under my but is shaking left to right, it doesnt even stay constant, it comes and goes constantly....... ok.. starting to shake.. shaking like f-ing crayzy....stopping....ok....starting to shake......shaking like, you get the idea. this cycle lasts 3 seconds or so.

Please help, I dont want to have to take it into the barn and shoot it.

Last edited by kevro2000; 09-19-2013 at 02:43 AM.
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Old 09-19-2013, 03:11 AM #2
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I'd look into a bent or unbalanced rear driveshaft.
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Old 09-19-2013, 04:39 AM #3
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u mean the final section of the main driveshaft? my feeling is I should start by getting all four wheels off the ground(remove them) and run it at 65 plus to see if something is going haywire. at least then I can totally eliminate the wheels/spacers as an issue.

also, I think I know the answer already, but I have been only a car guy forever. (first 4x4) can I run in a straight line, on pavement, in 4x4 hi to see if anything changes at all? Is that asking to f something else up or is that only an issue if I am driving around town on pavement and 4x4 on. I am back on the road to phx tomorrow and there will be ample straight roads I could try to stretch it out on in 4x4. but I dont wanna f more things up.
thanks
KO

Last edited by kevro2000; 09-19-2013 at 04:42 AM.
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Old 09-19-2013, 07:13 AM #4
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You can absolutely drive straight in 4x4 on dry pavement. Just try to limit as much sharp turning as possible to reduce strain on front drivetrain components.
I'm either leaning towards a bent driveshaft, or a bent rear axle.
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Old 09-19-2013, 08:00 AM #5
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I'm in the same boat here OP, same issues as you have.
I haven't done the steering rack or LBJs because there are so many threads about this issue and so many people pointing at so many things and there isn't one single post that says they've fixed it.

I don't have the cash to chase the problem with new parts...

And please, all of you who are suggesting a rear driveshaft issue:
Explain how a rear driveshaft would cause the steering wheel to wobble? There is no direct linkage from the driveshaft to the steering wheel. The only way it could effect the steering wheel is if the transfer case, transmission, engine were all wobbling which would cause the entire truck to wobble. Speaking only for myself, I'm on my 5th toyota truck and I know well what a driveshaft vibration feels like, this is not it.
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Old 09-19-2013, 08:16 AM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kernel.panik View Post
I'm in the same boat here OP, same issues as you have.
I haven't done the steering rack or LBJs because there are so many threads about this issue and so many people pointing at so many things and there isn't one single post that says they've fixed it.

I don't have the cash to chase the problem with new parts...

And please, all of you who are suggesting a rear driveshaft issue:
Explain how a rear driveshaft would cause the steering wheel to wobble? There is no direct linkage from the driveshaft to the steering wheel. The only way it could effect the steering wheel is if the transfer case, transmission, engine were all wobbling which would cause the entire truck to wobble. Speaking only for myself, I'm on my 5th toyota truck and I know well what a driveshaft vibration feels like, this is not it.
you can't understand how a component that needs to be balanced and spins at high speeds can cause a vibration throughout the truck? Driveshaft/or axle vibrations can be extremely harsh. And nowhere in his original post does it say it's only in the steering wheel.
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Old 09-19-2013, 08:46 AM #7
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I know you stated it did this when in stock form and after lift/tires and still does it.

Quick question on the tires, I went with treadwright's as well and had two of them that were out of round. I'm assuming you had the place balance them based on their directions.

I wonder if it's possible you fixed the issue but two, or more, of the tires are out of round and causing the issue. When I had the two out of round on the front of my 96, the shake was awful. I have new ones that I need to install.

Just throwing that out there.

junr
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Old 09-19-2013, 08:53 AM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackCat914 View Post
you can't understand how a component that needs to be balanced and spins at high speeds can cause a vibration throughout the truck? Driveshaft/or axle vibrations can be extremely harsh. And nowhere in his original post does it say it's only in the steering wheel.
I completely understand how an unbalanced component can cause the truck to vibrate, but what the OP is talking about is a steering wheel shimmy or wobble. I've experienced many u-joint and driveshaft issues in my 81, 83 and 85 toyota pickups. It is a very different experience. A rear driveshaft will not make his whole front end shake back and forth, it will make a vibration throughout the entire truck.

"when its shimmying it the hood flops side to side, the passenger door bangs around in the door jamb. it feels like everything from the front bumper to just under my but is shaking left to right..."

This does not sound like a driveshaft issue, even the front driveshaft shouldn't cause this. That's all I'm sayin...

Sorry if I sounded rude, I've read countless posts about this subject and it's getting frustrating.

Last edited by kernel.panik; 09-19-2013 at 08:56 AM. Reason: apology
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Old 09-19-2013, 08:58 AM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kernel.panik View Post
I completely understand how an unbalanced component can cause the truck to vibrate, but what the OP is talking about is a steering wheel shimmy or wobble. I've experienced many u-joint and driveshaft issues in my 81, 83 and 85 toyota pickups. It is a very different experience. A rear driveshaft will not make his whole front end shake back and forth, it will make a vibration throughout the entire truck.

"when its shimmying it the hood flops side to side, the passenger door bangs around in the door jamb. it feels like everything from the front bumper to just under my but is shaking left to right..."

This does not sound like a driveshaft issue, even the front driveshaft shouldn't cause this. That's all I'm sayin...

Sorry if I sounded rude, I've read countless posts about this subject and it's getting frustrating.
I'm just trying to think outside the box, he's replaced pretty much the entire front end without fixing it. Maybe it's time to start looking elsewhere.
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Old 09-19-2013, 09:18 AM #10
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Wheel bearings? you said there is obvious play in the wheel when you have the truck jacked up and tug on the wheel
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Old 09-19-2013, 09:19 AM #11
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Upper and lower control arm bushings?
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Old 09-19-2013, 05:21 PM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiness View Post
Wheel bearings? you said there is obvious play in the wheel when you have the truck jacked up and tug on the wheel
On road back from Mexico now. They obvious play was in my 3 month old moog
Lbj. Replaced it with a new one and play disappeared. Shimmy shake stayed the same.

I didnt try 4x4 on a straight line cuz I just got back to this thread
But I stuck my head out window when car was doing its thing. (not driving)
And all wheels look like they are spinning perfectly. Cept for rear passenger
It appears to have a very slight side to side movement.
Gonna get all four in the air tonigt. It also occured to me that I have
Also never been in the back seat.
Ko
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Old 09-19-2013, 05:35 PM #13
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In 4x4 mode it's kinda sorta different? The steering wheel seems to shake left to right less, but overall shaking is same.
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Old 09-19-2013, 07:02 PM #14
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is it possible to try it without the spacers?

if the spacers are the kind that bolts up to the hub, maybe try balancing the spacers bolted up to the wheel....just a thought..
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Old 09-19-2013, 07:20 PM #15
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How are your brakes? I had a mysterious shimmy a while back. While changing my pads and rotors I discovered a seized caliper. Apparently, the brake would drag and heat up the rotor, once it was hot it was trying to move the caliper which was shaking everything. I would have NEVER thought it to be the case, replaced pads rotors and calipers, smooth as silk.
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