04-15-2019, 12:23 AM
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#196
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Elite Member
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Citrus Heights, California
Age: 36
Posts: 7,330
Real Name: Jerod
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Elite Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Citrus Heights, California
Age: 36
Posts: 7,330
Real Name: Jerod
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So, I had some time to run a few times down the road and get some power readings with the two filters. Here's the chart and I'll discuss the data below:
Orange line is the aFe 5R Power oiled filter, blue is my stock paper filter. Pretty conclusive by the chart this thing flows better for my engine. Now, before you ditch your paper filter on your N/A 4Runner know that my engine is heavily modified and has a higher cfm flow than stock.
That being said, I'm very pleased with how it performs. Peak gain might only be +3 HP and +4 lbs tq but max gain is +9 HP and +9 lbs tq at 4500 RPM! Now this is just preliminary data based off my AEC FIC 6 logs (using Virtual Dyno) but it's shown to be pretty darn accurate. I'm going to give this filter a straight +6 HP, the power is there. Confirms also that my intake it still too restrictive.
A few other things I learned today is that heat soak happens on the third run. You'll notice the top end REALLY drops off once you go back 5000 RPM's. That's what happened on the dyno last year too, heat is a real limiting factor on this engine. I might do another run soon when the engine is cooler for some better comparisons. I took at total of 6 runs, that was too many without allowing it to cool down.
Also, I learned that the AEM FIC reads the AFR +0.3 higher. I will need to re-tune my engine soon to correct that.
HP Gain:
+6 HP
Running Total:
+109 HP
Last edited by gamefreakgc; 05-26-2019 at 01:23 AM.
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04-15-2019, 07:36 PM
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#197
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Elite Member
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Citrus Heights, California
Age: 36
Posts: 7,330
Real Name: Jerod
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Elite Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Citrus Heights, California
Age: 36
Posts: 7,330
Real Name: Jerod
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Guess who fouled another O2 sensor? I wonder if there's bulk pricing...
I'm going to try and throw in A/F sensor from a 99 and see what happens. Worst case I just return it.
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05-20-2019, 01:24 AM
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#198
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Elite Member
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Citrus Heights, California
Age: 36
Posts: 7,330
Real Name: Jerod
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Elite Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Citrus Heights, California
Age: 36
Posts: 7,330
Real Name: Jerod
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I've been sick for over 40 days straight... but finally on the mend! In between storms I had a chance to tweak my tune a bit and it made a BIG difference! Upon following some advice, I leaned out my tune into the low 12's, so around 12.0-12.2 and wow, did that wake up my engine! I saw roughly +18 HP and +18 TQ from my Virtual Dyno program!
I need to do a few more runs to confirm this but so far I'm seeing more top end power leaning out the AFR's a little with meth injection. I was previously in the 11.6-11.8 range.
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05-20-2019, 10:47 AM
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#199
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Middle TN
Posts: 781
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Middle TN
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^^ Yes this is expected. Meth setups seem to like a 12.0 AFR.
The challenge I've had with mine is COT (cat over temp). On some runs my AFRs will be 11.9 - 12.3 and on other it'll be 10.9 - 11.1. NO changes to the vehicle.
My assumption is it's COT kicking in and dumping fuel to cool things down. Too bad we can't shut if off that I know of. We turned it off in the Hellcat.
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05-20-2019, 01:09 PM
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#200
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Elite Member
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Citrus Heights, California
Age: 36
Posts: 7,330
Real Name: Jerod
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Elite Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Citrus Heights, California
Age: 36
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Real Name: Jerod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy
^^ Yes this is expected. Meth setups seem to like a 12.0 AFR.
The challenge I've had with mine is COT (cat over temp). On some runs my AFRs will be 11.9 - 12.3 and on other it'll be 10.9 - 11.1. NO changes to the vehicle.
My assumption is it's COT kicking in and dumping fuel to cool things down. Too bad we can't shut if off that I know of. We turned it off in the Hellcat.
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I've never heard of that before. I don't think my slightly archaic 98 ECU has the ability to read exhaust temps, I'm guessing that would be data taken from the upstream or downstream O2 sensor? We don't have an EGT sensor which is a bit of a bummer since that data would be awesome for tuning.
I would have thought water injection would keep that under control though, since the water doesn't burn off it just evaporates. Could it also be possible you've got some belt slippage and when it makes more boost it's leaner, and if the belt slips you're running rich?
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05-20-2019, 01:38 PM
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#201
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Join Date: Aug 2006
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
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The boost "seems" stable based on the gauge reading but I guess anything is possible.
You're right, COT is not a direct measurement, it's inferred from the exhaust sensors and some other stuff like MAF, injector pw, etc I suspect. My Hellcat doesn't have EGT sensors but it definitely does COT and I can see in the tune how much fuel it adds at the pre-determined estimated exhaust temp and it's A LOT lol.
I don't think the meth will control it as I suspect there are more sensors in play than just the exhaust narrow (or wide) band, but that's just a theory on this 4Runner.
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05-20-2019, 03:31 PM
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#202
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Elite Member
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Citrus Heights, California
Age: 36
Posts: 7,330
Real Name: Jerod
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Elite Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Citrus Heights, California
Age: 36
Posts: 7,330
Real Name: Jerod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy
The boost "seems" stable based on the gauge reading but I guess anything is possible.
You're right, COT is not a direct measurement, it's inferred from the exhaust sensors and some other stuff like MAF, injector pw, etc I suspect. My Hellcat doesn't have EGT sensors but it definitely does COT and I can see in the tune how much fuel it adds at the pre-determined estimated exhaust temp and it's A LOT lol.
I don't think the meth will control it as I suspect there are more sensors in play than just the exhaust narrow (or wide) band, but that's just a theory on this 4Runner.
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Belt slippage could be minor enough that the gauge doesn't move quick enough (especially if it's analog). I think only a data log could see it. My data log is sensitive enough that it captures the supercharger surges, the boost constantly oscillates between 9.5 to 10 PSI in 2nd gear. I only see 11 PSI in 3rd.
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05-20-2019, 04:09 PM
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#203
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Pasadena, CA
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I'd be really surprised if there is anything like a COT protection in the ECU - it was such an 'understressed' application in the beginning, why would they implement that feature?
JDM 3s-gte's do have EGT sensors - but it doesn't even connect to the ECU... It only lights a warning on the gauge cluster. So I suppose it is possible Toyota was thinking about that kind of stuff. That's slightly older tech though (pre-OBDII).
-Charlie
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'99 4Runner SR5 Auto - 4WD swapped
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05-20-2019, 04:13 PM
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#204
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Join Date: Aug 2006
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My boost gauge is digital and tied to the water/meth controller. I see a constant 9psi on the gauge in hot weather and almost 11 in cold.
If it's not COT it's definitely something. I can make 3-4 good pulls and AFR will be great....like 11.8 - 12.3, then another pull it'll quickly drop to 10.9 and stay there.
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05-20-2019, 11:12 PM
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#205
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Elite Member
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Citrus Heights, California
Age: 36
Posts: 7,330
Real Name: Jerod
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Elite Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Citrus Heights, California
Age: 36
Posts: 7,330
Real Name: Jerod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy
My boost gauge is digital and tied to the water/meth controller. I see a constant 9psi on the gauge in hot weather and almost 11 in cold.
If it's not COT it's definitely something. I can make 3-4 good pulls and AFR will be great....like 11.8 - 12.3, then another pull it'll quickly drop to 10.9 and stay there.
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Yeah that's a head-scratcher for sure. It's not like the ECU learns any sort of fuel trims or anything like that at WOT either. Hopefully you can iron out the kinks, I can't think of anything else that might randomly dump fuel after a few runs.
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05-21-2019, 10:18 AM
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#206
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Middle TN
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I don't think there are any kinks to iron out honestly. The same occured stock (I monitored with the wideband before ever installing the blower), occurred before the meth injection, and after.
Mine's a 2002 and I "think" the first year they went to a wideband front O2 sensor. That may be a clue to why this truck goes it to COT. I'd expect it to be a common deal as cats are expensive and manufacturers wouldn't want them burning up with any regularity. Every car I've had the ability to tune had COT tables.
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05-26-2019, 01:25 AM
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#207
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Elite Member
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Citrus Heights, California
Age: 36
Posts: 7,330
Real Name: Jerod
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Elite Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Citrus Heights, California
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Had some time to smooth out my AFR's. Did a few runs today and found that 12.1 - 12.2 AFR sits reaaal nice. Here's the final result.
Blue is new smooth AFR with aFe filter
Red is leaner AFR with aFe filter
Orange is stock filter with old tune
In total, the change from going from 11.3-11.5 AFR's (my AEM was reading the AFR innacurately by 0.3) to 12.1 - 12.2 and changing the air filter to the aFe Pro 5S has netted a gain of 11 RWHP. But that's only part of the story, since peak torque has improved by 31 RWTQ! I can really feel the engine pull in the 4000-5000 RPM range!
HP Increase:
+12 HP
Running Total:
+121 HP
P.S. on a side note, I tried altering the MAF signal to trick the ECU into showing more timing. Yeah, that didn't work, ran like absolute garbage!
Last edited by gamefreakgc; 05-27-2019 at 09:26 PM.
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05-26-2019, 02:26 PM
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#208
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Join Date: Aug 2006
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Member
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What software is providing the graph data?
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05-26-2019, 09:22 PM
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#209
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Join Date: May 2019
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 325
Real Name: chad morrison
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Join Date: May 2019
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Real Name: chad morrison
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looks bad to the bone
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05-27-2019, 09:30 PM
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#210
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Elite Member
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Citrus Heights, California
Age: 36
Posts: 7,330
Real Name: Jerod
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Elite Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Citrus Heights, California
Age: 36
Posts: 7,330
Real Name: Jerod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy
What software is providing the graph data?
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Virtual Dyno, it takes data logs in .txt, .xls, and other formats and calculates TQ and HP based on RPM, speed, elapsed time and anything else in the log.
The AEM FIC 6 creates .txt logs. I took an actual dyno run and fiddled with the weight until it matched the power output measured on the the dyno so these numbers should actually be in the ballpark.
I can "feel" a difference but it's hard to tell how much of a difference it makes. This program confirms the difference and puts an actual number on it.
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