4 wheel low with V8? - Toyota

TeryT · 02-04-2004, 01:53 AM

Does the V8 4Runner have a low range in 4 wheel drive? I forgot to notice.

Also some dumb questions:

> what advantage does full-time 4WD have?
> does the limited slip center mean it's a true 4 wheel drive?
> or does true 4 wheel drive happen with the locker?
> is the new 4Runner considered best in class in off-roading?

Thanks!!

rando · 02-04-2004, 02:08 AM

The new 4runner has low range gearing REGARDLESS of engine selection.

Perhaps some of the more senior folks around here can field your other questions.

jharris2 · 02-04-2004, 06:55 AM

'01-up 4wd System (A-TRAC, VSC) and TORSEN T-3

toybox · 02-04-2004, 09:13 AM

The advantage of full-time 4 wheel drive is that it is always on and you never have to think about it, rain, sleet, snow, dry and sunny, icy patches, off road. Nowadays (now that most part time systems can be engaged and used on dry pavewment) it is really more a convenience than a real advantage.

It is a true 4 wheel drive regardless of a limited slip or not. Limited slip has to do with power distribution on a particular axle and really doesn't have much to do about 4 wheel drive. Cars have had limited slips for a very long time.

4 wheel drive happens without the locker, or as an enhancement with the locker. It locks the power distribution to the rear wheels 50-50.

As far as I'm concerned it is the best in class, by far. I don't know who makes that official though.

Thai · 02-04-2004, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TeryT
Does the V8 4Runner have a low range in 4 wheel drive? I forgot to notice.

Also some dumb questions:

> what advantage does full-time 4WD have?
> does the limited slip center mean it's a true 4 wheel drive?
> or does true 4 wheel drive happen with the locker?
> is the new 4Runner considered best in class in off-roading?

Thanks!!

Quick response:

1. Yes, it has low range.

2. Full-time 4wd system is always in 4wd. Less things to think about it when driving...no need to switch back and forth between 2wd and 4wd modes. It comes on V8 model, which has a torque "advantage," which helps if you tow or off-road. With the V8 engine, you also get the 5-speed auto transmission, which has a stronger 1st gear ratio...good for towing, off-roading, and stop-light races; BUT, it also contributes to worst city fuel economy.

3. Yes, it's a true 4wd system. The Torsen center diff is gear-based...the best of it's kind. On V8 models, it is always active, sending torque back & forth between the front and rear axles depending on conditions. On V6 models, in addition to the full-time mode, it also has a 2wd mode that is better on the fuel economy.

4. With ATRAC (4-wheel traction control system), there's no need for a locker under most conditions, including off-roading. ATRAC is like having a limited-slip differential on BOTH your front and rear axles! (Remember, the Torsen center diff shifts power between front and rear axles. ATRAC then shifts power side-to side.) It is just as effective as ANY aftermarket LSD unit. However, like LSD, ATRAC is not as effective as a true locker in severe off-roading terrain.

5. 4runner is probably the top 3 best off-roaders. The other competitors are: Land Rover Discovery SII and Jeep Grand Cherokee. All three of these SUVs have plus and minus. Grand Cherokee is probably in 3rd place, but no clear winner. It is up to the individual to weighs the pluses and minuses.

Hope this helps.

TeryT · 02-04-2004, 11:24 AM

Thanks! So in the V8 power can get to ANY of the 4 wheels if needed - even without the locker?

Thai · 02-04-2004, 10:17 PM

You got it!

The 4runner is capable of moving forward even when only ONE wheel has traction (ANY WHEEL)! That's the beauty of ATRAC...it's simple, no weight penalty, and uses existing technology (ABS sensors and ABS).

fish · 07-19-2004, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Thai

5. 4runner is probably the top 3 best off-roaders. The other competitors are: Land Rover Discovery SII and Jeep Grand Cherokee. All three of these SUVs have plus and minus. Grand Cherokee is probably in 3rd place, but no clear winner. It is up to the individual to weighs the pluses and minuses.

Hope this helps.

Thai,

Thanks for the explanation. There are three or four of your posts that should be combined into a FAQ (if they're not already) on the gen4 4wd system.

I traded in a 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited on the 2004 4Runner Limited (both 4.7l V8). The two vehicles are very very different. I had the Quadra-trac II in my Jeep, as the Quadra-drive had just come out and there were a lot of complaints about binding and reliability. It sounds like the Quadra-drive (which uses viscous couplings to transfer torque across the axles) works similarly to the Toyota system. Not so with Quadra-drive II. It automatically (and seamlessly) transfers torque back and forth, but not side-to-side. Yes, a JGC can get stuck with three wheels spinning and one with traction. Didn't happen to me, thankfully, but after the first couple of years of ownership, I stopped taking it into the muck for reliability reasons (I wanted to get back home :rolleye2: ).

I'll try the center diff lock next time I head out. The manual really sucks in its explanation of how it works and why one would want to use it.

I don't know what the Land Rover's reliability is like, but if it's anything like the Jeep's, the 4Runner is #1. Besides, the 4Runner is much more spacious. There's barely enough room for a sleeping bag and a small flashlight in the back of a Discovery. The rear seats are cramped, and the damn thing looks like a white box of animal crackers.

Anyway...thanks for the posts, Thai. Your explanations are the cream of this forum, imho.

Thai · 07-19-2004, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fish
Anyway...thanks for the posts, Thai. Your explanations are the cream of this forum, imho.

Thanks, Fish! As for QuadraDrive issues, check out this link:

Jeep Grand Cherokee (horror stories!)

It is not nearly as effective as Jeep leads people to believe.

TeryT · 07-19-2004, 12:01 PM

You may think Quadradrive is not as effective, and I wouldn't argue with the fact that Jeep's have poorer quality, but I saw a GC with Quadradrive 2 go up the side of a moguled hill that others in the group couldn't do. (The rest of the group consisted of Cherokees, a Pathfinder, and Envoy & a Xtera.)

Course, we did wind up towing him back after he went thru the drink too fast.

Thai · 07-19-2004, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TeryT
You may think Quadradrive is not as effective, and I wouldn't argue with the fact that Jeep's have poorer quality, but I saw a GC with Quadradrive 2 go up the side of a moguled hill that others in the group couldn't do. (The rest of the group consisted of Cherokees, a Pathfinder, and Envoy & a Xtera.)

Course, we did wind up towing him back after he went thru the drink too fast.

True Tery, but none of the vehicles you mentioned above have ATRAC. All of them have basic 4wd system that does not allow for side-to-side torque transfer (as is seen with ATRAC and QDII).

mpsrent1 · 07-19-2004, 09:22 PM

THAI - You appear to be very familiar with 4Runner's 4wd system. I'm looking at buying, but have been hesitant to buy the V8 because of the AWD. My reasoning is that my past experience with AWD (other brands i.e. GM) has been that the system needs to sense slippage before it adjusts the ratio. I drive a lot in snow and ice and like the benefits of full 4WD lock compared to a system that senses the wheel slippage before adjusting. That slip second can be all it takes to get in trouble. Having said that, I may be wrong becasue this may not apply to Toyota systems.

Any comments? Thanks.

fish · 07-19-2004, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Thai

It is not nearly as effective as Jeep leads people to believe.

No kidding!! Boy, am I ever glad I offed that Jeep.

Thai · 07-19-2004, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mpsrent1
THAI - You appear to be very familiar with 4Runner's 4wd system. I'm looking at buying, but have been hesitant to buy the V8 because of the AWD. My reasoning is that my past experience with AWD (other brands i.e. GM) has been that the system needs to sense slippage before it adjusts the ratio. I drive a lot in snow and ice and like the benefits of full 4WD lock compared to a system that senses the wheel slippage before adjusting. That slip second can be all it takes to get in trouble. Having said that, I may be wrong becasue this may not apply to Toyota systems.

Any comments? Thanks.

You need not worry about Toyota 4wd system. The V8 4runners have FULL-TIME 4wd, not AWD. That is, the system is ALWAYS ON...at all times, power is sent to both front and rear axles. Only the ratio of power varies (50/50, 30/70, etc.).

With V6 4runners, you have an additional 2wd mode. You can leave it in 4wd and it will behave just like the V8-model. But, you can also leave it in 2wd for dry land driving and save a bit of fuel in the process.

IMO, Toyota system is pretty much ideal for everyone. It has everything. However, remember, at highway speed, these 4wd systems won't be very effective. This is where VSC (stability control) is vital to your safety. And guess what? 4runners have this safety feature too!

Hope this helps.

TeryT · 07-19-2004, 10:14 PM

So what's the reason Toyota doesn't give the option to go 2 wheel in the V8 as in the V6? Seems like that would be a way to squeeze out an extra mile per gallon & reduce the "penalty" for having the V8.

What am I missing here?

02-04-2004, 01:53 AM	#1 (permalink)
TeryT Ace Wanabe Tow-Master Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Scottsdale AZ Posts: 1,283	4 wheel low with V8? Does the V8 4Runner have a low range in 4 wheel drive? I forgot to notice. Also some dumb questions: > what advantage does full-time 4WD have? > does the limited slip center mean it's a true 4 wheel drive? > or does true 4 wheel drive happen with the locker? > is the new 4Runner considered best in class in off-roading? Thanks!! __________________ 2003 V8 4x4 Sport 4Runner TRUCK OF THE MONTH SEPT. 06 - tows a 26' ultralite Rockwood 2502 travel trailer! MODS: CyberDyne tranny temp gauge; Hayden 526 tranny cooler/fan combo; 3M clear bra; Jordan brake controller; Bridgestone (stock) Revos; Air Lift 1000; under hood lights; center speaker control; locking lug nuts & spare tire lock; dash cover; low-tech tire pressure valve caps; Altimeter; under-seat sub woofer; Lo-Jack & Mobile1 synth fluids all around! Hensley Arrow hitching system & McKesh tow mirrors - simply the best.

02-04-2004, 02:08 AM	#2 (permalink)
rando Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Redondo Beach, CA Posts: 1,081	The new 4runner has low range gearing REGARDLESS of engine selection. Perhaps some of the more senior folks around here can field your other questions. __________________ '04 SR5 4x4 V8 Titanium/Stone - 2/1/04 Mods: Homelink+x10, RS3200+, Auto Headlights, Compass Mirror, CarPC, DRL, PDF Manuals, Auto Map Lights, MGCLT Relay Saver Future Mods: 115V Inverter, Leather, Trip Computer Fix

02-04-2004, 06:55 AM	#3 (permalink)
jharris2 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 5,544	'01-up 4wd System (A-TRAC, VSC) and TORSEN T-3 __________________ 2003 SR5 V6 4WD Titanium with cladding

02-04-2004, 11:24 AM	#6 (permalink)
TeryT Ace Wanabe Tow-Master Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Scottsdale AZ Posts: 1,283	Thanks! So in the V8 power can get to ANY of the 4 wheels if needed - even without the locker? __________________ 2003 V8 4x4 Sport 4Runner TRUCK OF THE MONTH SEPT. 06 - tows a 26' ultralite Rockwood 2502 travel trailer! MODS: CyberDyne tranny temp gauge; Hayden 526 tranny cooler/fan combo; 3M clear bra; Jordan brake controller; Bridgestone (stock) Revos; Air Lift 1000; under hood lights; center speaker control; locking lug nuts & spare tire lock; dash cover; low-tech tire pressure valve caps; Altimeter; under-seat sub woofer; Lo-Jack & Mobile1 synth fluids all around! Hensley Arrow hitching system & McKesh tow mirrors - simply the best.

02-04-2004, 10:17 PM	#7 (permalink)
Thai Snowflake, Guns, & Texas! Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 11,905	You got it! The 4runner is capable of moving forward even when only ONE wheel has traction (ANY WHEEL)! That's the beauty of ATRAC...it's simple, no weight penalty, and uses existing technology (ABS sensors and ABS). __________________ 2010 Toyota Prius V with ATP (daily driver) 2008 Toyota Sienna Salsa Red Pearl 2wd Limited (urban family "land cruiser") 2009 Acura TSX Palladium (wife's car) Off-roading Videos of My G I AM FAMOUS!! "Everyday is Halloween on the Internet"


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02-04-2004, 09:13 AM	#4 (permalink)
toybox *************** Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 1,821	The advantage of full-time 4 wheel drive is that it is always on and you never have to think about it, rain, sleet, snow, dry and sunny, icy patches, off road. Nowadays (now that most part time systems can be engaged and used on dry pavewment) it is really more a convenience than a real advantage. It is a true 4 wheel drive regardless of a limited slip or not. Limited slip has to do with power distribution on a particular axle and really doesn't have much to do about 4 wheel drive. Cars have had limited slips for a very long time. 4 wheel drive happens without the locker, or as an enhancement with the locker. It locks the power distribution to the rear wheels 50-50. As far as I'm concerned it is the best in class, by far. I don't know who makes that official though.

07-19-2004, 12:01 PM	#10 (permalink)
TeryT Ace Wanabe Tow-Master Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Scottsdale AZ Posts: 1,283	You may think Quadradrive is not as effective, and I wouldn't argue with the fact that Jeep's have poorer quality, but I saw a GC with Quadradrive 2 go up the side of a moguled hill that others in the group couldn't do. (The rest of the group consisted of Cherokees, a Pathfinder, and Envoy & a Xtera.) Course, we did wind up towing him back after he went thru the drink too fast. __________________ 2003 V8 4x4 Sport 4Runner TRUCK OF THE MONTH SEPT. 06 - tows a 26' ultralite Rockwood 2502 travel trailer! MODS: CyberDyne tranny temp gauge; Hayden 526 tranny cooler/fan combo; 3M clear bra; Jordan brake controller; Bridgestone (stock) Revos; Air Lift 1000; under hood lights; center speaker control; locking lug nuts & spare tire lock; dash cover; low-tech tire pressure valve caps; Altimeter; under-seat sub woofer; Lo-Jack & Mobile1 synth fluids all around! Hensley Arrow hitching system & McKesh tow mirrors - simply the best.

07-19-2004, 09:22 PM	#12 (permalink)
mpsrent1 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 4	THAI - You appear to be very familiar with 4Runner's 4wd system. I'm looking at buying, but have been hesitant to buy the V8 because of the AWD. My reasoning is that my past experience with AWD (other brands i.e. GM) has been that the system needs to sense slippage before it adjusts the ratio. I drive a lot in snow and ice and like the benefits of full 4WD lock compared to a system that senses the wheel slippage before adjusting. That slip second can be all it takes to get in trouble. Having said that, I may be wrong becasue this may not apply to Toyota systems. Any comments? Thanks.

07-19-2004, 10:14 PM	#15 (permalink)
TeryT Ace Wanabe Tow-Master Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Scottsdale AZ Posts: 1,283	So what's the reason Toyota doesn't give the option to go 2 wheel in the V8 as in the V6? Seems like that would be a way to squeeze out an extra mile per gallon & reduce the "penalty" for having the V8. What am I missing here? __________________ 2003 V8 4x4 Sport 4Runner TRUCK OF THE MONTH SEPT. 06 - tows a 26' ultralite Rockwood 2502 travel trailer! MODS: CyberDyne tranny temp gauge; Hayden 526 tranny cooler/fan combo; 3M clear bra; Jordan brake controller; Bridgestone (stock) Revos; Air Lift 1000; under hood lights; center speaker control; locking lug nuts & spare tire lock; dash cover; low-tech tire pressure valve caps; Altimeter; under-seat sub woofer; Lo-Jack & Mobile1 synth fluids all around! Hensley Arrow hitching system & McKesh tow mirrors - simply the best.

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