Also, to those looking for discounts on near-new vehicles, don't forget about DEMO models! Demonstrator vehicles usually have less than 15,000 kms on them and are very well-maintained. They also qualify for all NEW vehicle leasing/financing programs/rates at discounted prices.

If every dealer sells at MRSP isn't that still collusion?

It's like all dealership owners getting together making a private agreement not give any discounts and just sell at MRSP!

And since the consumer wants to own a Toyota product then it's a like it or lump it situation.




BTW I'don't know if buying out of Province is a good idea in case warranty work(TSB) is required. I'm not sure if a dealer would be too accomodating if they found out vehicle bought out of town.

Nope, that's where the (uh oh) Wal-Mart or Safeway analogy comes into play. Sure, Wal-Mart could sell you an item cheaper than the Wal-Mart down the street, but they won't because suggested retail prices have been researched and ok'd.

So basically if you ask a dealer if they are allowed to discount, the answer will likely be along the lines of, "Yes, but we feel that the price is fair, so we don't." And that's perfectly legit. Anyone can go on toyota.ca and price out their vehicle just as the dealer can, no hidden costs.

Now I get your point.

Ok - here is a sample of what Canadian dealer invoice on the 04s was a short while back just so you know how much we are talking about - add about 1800 to these for PDI, fuel tax etc

V6 SR5 $35,495

V8 Ltd 45,952

I was looking at 700 over any of these invoice prices for a new (not demo) 2004 in August and I got a pick of colour etc.

On average the margin is 4-5k before taxes - no wonder nobody wants to shift away from this arrangement.

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2004 4x4 SR5 V8 Titanium Silver

Ok, that's fine and good, but it's really not THAT much better deal than any old BC guy could get without haggling at all.....

MSRP on 2004 Limited V8 =

$50,920
- 2000 factory cash back
- 380 less freight/PDI/air (you're taxed on top of that in ON, so I'm counting it here)
______________

$48,540 = About $1800 difference, not anywhere near 4-5K.


Did you finance or pay cash DaveS?

Hi Northof49,

Do know the '05 V8 Ltd (no third row option) MRSP yet?

What are my chances in GVRD, B.C. of getting $2000 off list plus PDI&Freight+Taxes for an '05 like the above?

BTW which I think is reasonable!

Thanks!

The pricing for 2005 V8's isn't on toyota.ca yet, so we're still in the dark just like everyone else I don't think we've even got any dealer ordering info yet, just V6's.

The above cash back is for 2004 models only, the chances of getting that discount on a 2005 is not good, to be blunt.

I *might* be switching for a 2005 Ltd. V8 when they become available, so I'll keep you guys posted on new info.....drove some 05 Tundras with the new 282hp motor and it is NICE


Just to make it clear to everyone, I didn't come on here planning to defend, promote or push the Access program in anyway. I have fun sharing whatever info I might have, and clearing up misconceptions where possible. HOWEVER, I don't have anything resembling a short-list of of dealers who discount, or a method to make dealers discount. In my opinion, Access is a painless way to to buy a new car at a fair price, but that's just that - my opinion.

Hi Northof49,

Yes, please keep us up to date!

This was before the cash backs were available - I paid part cash part finance - but the price was quoted regardless of how I financed. I just checked the quotes now on the site (you pay once but you can look back later to see if the deal is sweetening.) Right now they are offering dealer invoice + $700 but with an option of the current discounted finance rates or $2,000 "trading dollars" which I think is the factory cash back you are refering to.

By the way - I also checked on the site and they do not offer "no haggle" pricing in BC and Alberta for Toyota right now - the situation out there with price fixing out there really stinks in my view.

The site suggests people actually buy in Ontario and either drive the car back or have it shipped - they reckon 700-900 and a 2-3 week wait (I would be worried about damage in transit personally)

http://www.carcostcanada.com/en/rese...no=895&catid=6

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2004 4x4 SR5 V8 Titanium Silver

As I said earlier, the Access no heckle "Drive Away Pricing" is gone. Everyone cryed price-fixing on it so intead, most dealers just choose to sell at full MSRP (not price fixing).

As for that website, all I have to say is that it's in the business of selling cars as well, so be careful. Everyone in the car buying/selling food-chain makes money somehow, and money can only come from one place.....you Personally, I take Toyota Canada's word for what is fair over some newage E-company that says "we can get you a better deal in another province," but that's me.

It's harsh, but a $4-5K discount on a new model 4Runner is a pipe-dream. If someone wants an 4x4 SUV with a $5,000 discount, Ford has a nice Exploder sitting on their lot for him/her. As a 4Runner owner that will likely be selling his rig used soon, I don't want to see huge discounts, in order to keep our resale values nice and high (definetly a 4Runner tradition!)

I just started reading this thread. What I want to know is how do the owners of the stealerships feel about this "price fixing"?

How do the salesmen really feel about not being able to even give a free service or floormats just to make the commision?

There are a lot of Toyota dealers in the Vancouver region. Why would one not want lure more customers in from their neighboring competitors by offering lower prices? If they really want our business they would offer some incentive.

I've been looking into this for sometime now. Last year I bought a Toyota. I ended up buying it outside the lower mainland. They threw in a protection package (undercoating, diamond coating, floormats, and scotchguarding). This cost about $800, which is better than buying at MSRP. I'd like to mention the dealership, but they are afraid of getting in trouble from the BC dealership network. I was told that they would get punished if this got out.

During my search last year, prior to the Access Toyota abandonment, I was told, by a several salesmen, that dealer's would get punished for selling below Access price. I was also told this by the place I ended making the purchase from.

I do not know if this would still be the case, today.

Now I'm looking at a new 4Runner or Tacoma. Which led me to Canada's Competition Bureau. I was told that the only way that Toyota Canada would be in violation of the Competition Act is in Section 61. Section 61 states that the supplier, whether this be Toyota Canada or some other entity, cannot punish a distributor (dealership) for selling a product below a suggested price.

The Competition Bureau would like to know if anybody has any evidence of this type that says it's still happening. Whether the evidence be a salesman telling you he can't give a deal because he'd catch crap or something else.

If you or anybody knows anything about this, please don't be scared to contact the Competition Bureau of Canada. They say everything you tell them will be kept in confidence.

http://competition.ic.gc.ca/epic/in...n/ct02143e.html

Just a few more tidbits about the end to Access Toyota. I really hate how the BC and Alta dealers can get away with selling at full MSRP.

http://www.carcostcanada.com/en/res...sno=894&catid=6

http://www.carcostcanada.com/en/res...sno=895&catid=6

I think you missed the last 2 pages of this thread.......

I read it all over again.
I still don't see why a salesman would want to give up a sale which = comission. Are you telling me, the salesmen don't want to make money? Do the dealerships not really care if they have more clientel which = money?

This one price policy may work for those who know Toyota is a better product that the domestics. But how do you sell to the domestic followers that are considering Toyota? They don't really know how good Toyota is. In this case price may be the selling point.

What do you have to say about those dealerships that told me they could not deal because they feared they would get penalized? Was this just part of the Access Toyota campaign? Is that why Access Toyota has been abandoned? Is there any truth in this? Be honest.

If this idea is so great, why has Toyota Canada abandoned it?

On another note, you know things are fishy when the Competition Bureau phones you up right away interested in what you have to say. Heck, they even suggested that people should consider shopping for Toyotas out of province. But that would only make sense if the savings were substantial, which just might be the case for the 4Runners.

If a salesman/dealership gave away all vehicles at near-invoice like everyone wants, they would make little or no money. Would you show up for work in the morning knowing that if you sell no cars, you will make nothing, and if you sell a $50K+ 4Runner you will make 100 bucks? What would be the point? And after you give it to one person, it's totally unfair not to give it to the next guy. Dealerships are legitimate businesses/employers/tax payers/community contributors that deserve to make money as much as anyone. Markup on a new vehicle from a percentage basis is about 1/3 of what you would pay for new running shoes. If there were little/no profit in selling cars, there wouldn't BE a Toyota 4Runner....remember that guys.
Through large cash discounts / zero % financing / huge lease residuals with low monthly payments / etc, the domestic boys have absolutely shot themselves in the foot in the past 15+ years. Their resale values are lower than ever, as are their rapidly decreasing market shares. Toyota has passed Dodge AND Ford this past year, and is gaining ground quickly on Chev. Whatever they're doing with product/pricing. Toyota has it right, the (former) Big Three do not.
Access Toyota was abandoned? Nope, Access is still going strong. Like I said earlier in the thread, the Access discount system is gone; now most dealer CHOOSE to sell at full sticker.
Canadian Tire sells all of their products at MSRP prices across Canada.....have you phoned the Competition Bureau on them? If not, that's quite the double standard you're promoting......