[mikestang]

They have a 4-wheel dyno there? Very interesting, I've never seen one before.

[RonMAIDEN]

Man,NA sucks to squeeze horses from and costs too much.

Is there a reason you are after these elusive horses?

[OUTRNNR]

Yeah they have a 4 wheel dyno at Mac Autosport in Parker, CO. Pretty popular around here because alot of people drive AWD cars that they like tune and drive in the winter. Mac has the first AWD dyno in CO, or at least that's what they say. I went to HS with the owner's son and their shop is like 5 min from my parents house.

Ron, yeah it doesn't seem like I'm going to get a lot of power here, I estimate 5-10 whp. In the research I've been doing, it seems like the Toyota ECU has its own mind made up about how much air and how much fuel it wants to burn no matter what mods you decide to add. That's why alot of these intake and exhaust mods don't add the power that you would get in, say, a Tahoe or something, its because as we all know, the computer adapts to changes. The plan with the AFC is to trick the computer in to thinking its running rich (by intercepting the O2 signal) so it will either add air, reduce fuel, or both. This way the mix is leaned to 12.5-12.8:1 to get optimum power from the fuel (I'm at 11.9:1 now). Also, another large reason I did this is because when the warranty expires and I have enough money I plan on supercharging to a max of about 5-6 psi. As I'm sure you know, boosted applications require precise air fuel control, and the PSC1-001 has a MAP sensor input to aid in this process.

**UPDATE**
I know I told a few of you that I was going to the dyno today. Well I'm not now because URD didn't get the PSC1-001 to me on time. Maybe if they get the part to me tomorrow (by mail) I can take it in tomorrow afternoon but the shop is booked all day for an SRT-4 dyno day, if I can't get it tomorrow it may be next weekend. However, I PROMISE I will get a pre and post tune dyno and post the results here. Remember that I have added the Volant CAI since the last time I was on the dyno so the pre-tune dyno will also reveal the truth about the intake on the vvt-i V8. Stay Tuned.

[RonMAIDEN]

So,how many more miles til the fun begins?

[OUTRNNR]

Originally posted by RonMAIDEN
So,how many more miles til the fun begins?

Haha, well I'm at about 17k now, and what's the powertrain warranty? 30k? So about another year, year and a half...

:awais:

[the_bear]

Originally posted by OUTRNNR
Haha, well I'm at about 17k now, and what's the powertrain warranty? 30k? So about another year, year and a half...

:awais:

Powertrain warranty is 5 year 60k miles.

Regular warranty is 3 year 36k miles.

-Eric

[Koz]

Where's the BEEF?

Koz

[OUTRNNR]

Originally posted by Koz
Where's the BEEF?

Koz

In a box sitting on my kitchen counter. The part came yesterday and was supposed to show last friday. Now I can't make it to the dyno until sometime next week becasue I'll be busy all weekend. The BEEF will be delivered.

[OUTRNNR]

OK latest update...

I went in at 3pm today to get the Split Second PCU installed for AFC and timing tune. I got there at 3pm, but some friend of the owner was there and wanted to do a quick pull, no problem I had the rest of the afternoon and wasn't going anywhere.

The guy pulls in a Hummer H3, I'm like, "Are you F*cking kidding me?", but as it pulls in the garage I hear the unmistakeable whistle coming from under the hood. That's right folks, a blown I-5 H3. The guy who was dynoing it built a FULLY custom S/C kit with air-water intercooler running 8 lbs of boost, eight!!. Stock internals, stock computer (he cracked the code to take out timing and adjust air/fuel numbers).

The funny thing was it only put down 250 AWHP and 220 AWTQ. I put down 212/250 with just exhaust. So with intake and the PCU I'm getting installed I'm estimating somewhere around 230-240 AWHP so I imagine I could still hang (especially since I weigh about 500 lbs less and have better gearing than the H3). But I digress...

I rescheduled for Thursday at 10am, so expect to see dyno numbers early afternoon on thursday. The BEEF is a comin'!!!

Check out the latest pic of the Runner, taken atop Loveland Pass last friday....

[rolla_dink]

Originally posted by spyne
I believe it uses a knock sensor. As far as I know, there is no way for the engine to know what octane fuel you are running. It just listens for the pings and adjusts accordingly.

x2 ^^^ exactly. This is what we have been finding when we tune both engines on the corollas. The vvt-i 1zz and the vvti-L in the 2ZZ.

Oh and Please Keep Us Posted! Brian at URD helps the boosted corollas out a lot plus I'm looking for good results before I start tuning the 4Runner.

[OUTRNNR]

OK, well finally I got the Split Sec PCU installed and tuned. After spending 2 hours on the dyno tuning here are the results. But first, I promised to release the results of the Volant CAI. This run was done with the stock map running in the PCU before we even started tuning. AFR's were right at 11.8:1, even though the graph I posted below doesn't show it. How about 17 AWHP?? I think that settles that:

Volant CAI Dyno Proven HP:

[mikestang]

All the gains are above 3700 rpms, though, and you actually lost power below 3700, which is where the engine is during a majority of the driving. Not an acceptable trade off to me, but if all you're after is peak numbers then congrats!

[OUTRNNR]

OK, now for the results of the Split Sec PSC1-001 performance control module. We threw it on and put it on the dyno and realized anywhere from 5-10 AWHP, with alot of the runs being around 8 AWHP. We tuned from 11.8:1 AFR and leaned up to about 12.9-13:1. At one point we were around 14:1 and the power was down a bit and the torque was up alot, as much as 270 ft-lbs when it was that lean. As far as what I got, I'd say its about 8 AWHP, which is exactly what I expected. The dyno sheet says about 5 AWHP over the intake, but that was after about 10 dyno pulls in a row, it was starting to get pretty hot in there, and the cooling fan was engaged too. So anywhere from 5-8 AWHP.

Comparison - Just exhaust vs. Intake/Exhaust/Tune:

[OUTRNNR]

Here is a shot of the final pull with the final map - 233 AWHP and 271 AWTQ. That translates to about 300 crank HP with a 21% driveline loss. Not bad.

[OUTRNNR]

So to recap the stage one completion:

Magnaflow Catback - $400
Volant CAI - $270 (I think this is what I paid...)
Split Sec PCU - $270 + $225 install & tune

Equals about $1165. And I got 40 crank HP from this, so that equals around $30 per HP, not too bad.

Thanks for following, any questions let me know...

[OUTRNNR]

Originally posted by mikestang
All the gains are above 3700 rpms, though, and you actually lost power below 3700, which is where the engine is during a majority of the driving. Not an acceptable trade off to me, but if all you're after is peak numbers then congrats!

OK, first off, with the intake I might have lost negligible power below 3700 rpms where less power is being made, true, but if you look at the graph where I compare just exhaust to intake/exhaust/tune you can see I made power everywhere in the rpm band. This is because the engine needed to be tuned to account for the different flow characteristics of the intake and exhaust. I'm not just going for peak HP, I like low end torque and power too, and if you look at the graph you can see it improved imensely. Secondly, after the tune the engine is much more responsive at all rpms. This is why I recommend the tune with the intake/exhaust. Without it, you still gain peak power but you may lose some low end, however little it may be. Before the tune I never felt like I lost any power by adding the intake.

Let me re-iterate; the engine feels much more responsive throughout the rpm range and pulls harder to redline, which I feel IS and acceptible trade off, make of it what you will, but I'm happy in the way it drives and the gains it made...

[mikestang]

Yea, looks like I jumped in before you posted the after-tune results. Unfortunately I'd say the vast majority of people doing these mods will not be able to dyno tune, thus their results may be less than favorable as I pointed out, will all their gains being realized in portions of the rpm band they'll rarely use. Good job on the documentation, and thanks for sharing - there's no substiture for real-world numbers.

If you're really motivated I have a request I would love to see dyno documented. Check out where the exhaust pipes from the passenger and driver sides come together, the junctions is just awful! Basically both pipes are smashed in 1/2 and welded together. This is a huge exhaust restriction and I'm sure you would see some more ponies if you were to chop that junction off and weld in a true Y connection in its place. I'm going to do this as soon as my warranty is up. Maybe add it to your to-do list? I would guess the gain here could be as significant and the gain from installing the complete cat-back, as the stock cat-back didn't appear too restrictive.

[OUTRNNR]

Originally posted by mikestang
Yea, looks like I jumped in before you posted the after-tune results. Unfortunately I'd say the vast majority of people doing these mods will not be able to dyno tune, thus their results may be less than favorable as I pointed out, will all their gains being realized in portions of the rpm band they'll rarely use. Good job on the documentation, and thanks for sharing - there's no substiture for real-world numbers.

If you're really motivated I have a request I would love to see dyno documented. Check out where the exhaust pipes from the passenger and driver sides come together, the junctions is just awful! Basically both pipes are smashed in 1/2 and welded together. This is a huge exhaust restriction and I'm sure you would see some more ponies if you were to chop that junction off and weld in a true Y connection in its place. I'm going to do this as soon as my warranty is up. Maybe add it to your to-do list? I would guess the gain here could be as significant and the gain from installing the complete cat-back, as the stock cat-back didn't appear too restrictive.

That is something that's been on my "radar" as far as future mods go. I think I'm good on performance mods for a little while considering I've spent over a grand on what I have. I do agree though, that stock system is rediculous the way they bring the exhaust together, I'm sure there is some power to be had in adding a true Y-pipe. But if I were to do that I'd do the whole exhaust system - headers, hi-flow cats, y-pipe into the catback. As far as the stock catback goes, it actually is pretty restrictive; it has a huge muffler, non-mandrel bends and those annoying resonators right before the muffler and tailpipe.

This is a mod I will consider when headers are made for the 4Runner, right now there are no options for headers on the 2UZ-FE

[rolla_dink]

Originally posted by mikestang
Yea, looks like I jumped in before you posted the after-tune results. Unfortunately I'd say the vast majority of people doing these mods will not be able to dyno tune, thus their results may be less than favorable as I pointed out, will all their gains being realized in portions of the rpm band they'll rarely use. Good job on the documentation, and thanks for sharing - there's no substiture for real-world numbers.

If you're really motivated I have a request I would love to see dyno documented. Check out where the exhaust pipes from the passenger and driver sides come together, the junctions is just awful! Basically both pipes are smashed in 1/2 and welded together. This is a huge exhaust restriction and I'm sure you would see some more ponies if you were to chop that junction off and weld in a true Y connection in its place. I'm going to do this as soon as my warranty is up. Maybe add it to your to-do list? I would guess the gain here could be as significant and the gain from installing the complete cat-back, as the stock cat-back didn't appear too restrictive.

During moderate acceleration I find myself in that powerband, but of course once I get to cruising speed I'm no longer in that band. I beg to differ that half would benefit mostly during moderate to heavy acceleration while the truck is in 1-2nd gears where as those who of course *****foot it will no benefit.

Once the warranty is up I would love to gut that third CAT (just to keep compliant with visual inspection) and have JP Performance redesign a X-Pipe design to see if we can make an improvement. For me though, I don't see this happening for another year or so since my focus has now dropped back to the family and building the engine up on the corolla.

Great research and docs. One question, why the PSC instead of the FTC1?

Just wondering since I was talking to Mark about slapping on the FTC1 and get the full benefit.

[RonMAIDEN]

Nice gains but coming from a turbo car NA gains are so costly but you've got real proof and i'm impressed.

My friend dynoed his '94 TT Supra stock and it laid down 287whp and then with a full 3" turbo back exhaust he laid down 358whp so that was a gain of 71whp for less than $600;the HKS filter netted another 21whp coupled with a few more PSI boost using a $50 mbc for a total of 436whp and kept total costs at about $800.
also went from mid 14s stock to a tick under 12 and half seconds on drag radials up here at 5800ft asl.

Ok,so the strip is still open for another month so you should see what real world numbers net you. The best I've seen from a current Toy truck was a 15.8 laid down by a '05 Tacoma X-Runner and he had the TRD exhaust and filter in place.

[OUTRNNR]

Originally posted by rolla_dink
Great research and docs. One question, why the PSC instead of the FTC1?

Just wondering since I was talking to Mark about slapping on the FTC1 and get the full benefit.

Brian from URD recommended the PSC and said thats what I needed. I'm not familiar with the FTC1, so I'm not sure what differences there would be. The way the PSC is configured it looks to be performing roughly the same as the FTC (conditioning the MAF signal with EGO, RPM, and MAP as inputs and references).

I originally inquired about the Air Fuel Ratio Sensor but Brian told me I needed the PSC. I bought the PSC with the MAP input because I plan on S/C'ing in a year or two. One thing I need to figure out before then is how to adjust timing with the PSC, because neither of us could figure it out on the dyno...It may not have been configured to adjust timing...

[Koz]

Well there's the BEEF! Good Job! Tell me a little about the PSC and maybe a link to it. I

[rolla_dink]

Originally posted by OUTRNNR
Brian from URD recommended the PSC and said thats what I needed. I'm not familiar with the FTC1, so I'm not sure what differences there would be. The way the PSC is configured it looks to be performing roughly the same as the FTC (conditioning the MAF signal with EGO, RPM, and MAP as inputs and references).

I originally inquired about the Air Fuel Ratio Sensor but Brian told me I needed the PSC. I bought the PSC with the MAP input because I plan on S/C'ing in a year or two. One thing I need to figure out before then is how to adjust timing with the PSC, because neither of us could figure it out on the dyno...It may not have been configured to adjust timing...

The FTC1 combines the functionalities of the PSC1 and TMC1. The PSC1 itself does not have the ability to control timing. Worst case if you need to control timing you can pick up the TMC1 and piggyback it. The deal with the FTC1 is that everything is in one unit. As far as pricing of buying both or one the cost is pretty close.

[leesdawgs]

Im very interested in this. the only problem is I live in south Georgia and I dont really know anyone around here who could do this. plus I wouldnt even know where to find a shop with a dyno. if anyone could point me in the right direction I would be much obliged. also I was wondering if there was going to be any upkeep with the computer or would it pretty much run by itself with no real scares. I like a truck I can hop in and go, not one I have to worry if it is going to give out on me at any given time...

thanks for all the info and keep me posted....

Lee

[rolla_dink]

Originally posted by leesdawgs
Im very interested in this. the only problem is I live in south Georgia and I dont really know anyone around here who could do this. plus I wouldnt even know where to find a shop with a dyno. if anyone could point me in the right direction I would be much obliged. also I was wondering if there was going to be any upkeep with the computer or would it pretty much run by itself with no real scares. I like a truck I can hop in and go, not one I have to worry if it is going to give out on me at any given time...

thanks for all the info and keep me posted....

Lee

Most any reputable performance shop can hook up the unit for you. Each unit also comes with the needed programming software. Worst case you would need the wiring diagram for the ECM and worse case URD or even Split Sec is willing to help walk you through the process. When I have to search for good tuning shops I usually go to the toyota forums since they havemany members who 1. Tune their cars, and 2. more likely that you'll find someone in your area.


Once programmed there is no upkeep unless you change something mechanically that would affect the parameters for which your engine has been tuned for e.g. Intake, Exhaust, Engine. Another plus is you can always save the programmed maps in the event that they are lost or say go corrupt (something I haven't seen happen yet). Even if you lose battery power, the maps will still be there.

[OUTRNNR]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Koz
[B]Well there's the BEEF! Good Job! Tell me a little about the PSC and maybe a link to it. I

[tour4fun2000]

Originally posted by rolla_dink


Once the warranty is up I would love to gut that third CAT (just to keep compliant with visual inspection) and have JP Performance redesign a X-Pipe design to see if we can make an improvement. For me though, I don't see this happening for another year or so since my focus has now dropped back to the family and building the engine up on the corolla.

Another big thumbs up to Jose at JP Performance :bowdown: .
He built the turbo manifold for my 1999 4Runner.

[Duc Hunter]

Great job. My experience, with my Galant VR-4 Turbo Rally car was that when I leaned the car out I got more power, more torque (as you saw) AND better mpg. Have you noticed better MPG because at cruise your car is now leaner? I built my Galant's map with a stand-alone ECU and had it set very lean at low end/mid range for better mpg and torque (they seem to go together). I sacrificed a little HP down there because I found the turbo spooled faster with the more torque/less hp A/F ratios.

[OUTRNNR]

Originally posted by Duc Hunter
Great job. My experience, with my Galant VR-4 Turbo Rally car was that when I leaned the car out I got more power, more torque (as you saw) AND better mpg. Have you noticed better MPG because at cruise your car is now leaner? I built my Galant's map with a stand-alone ECU and had it set very lean at low end/mid range for better mpg and toque (they seem to go together). I sacrificed a little HPO down there because I found the turbo spooled faster with the more torque/less hp A/F ratios.

Acutally, I have noticed a bit of a difference. I've been driving it harder than I normally do, but it seems like I am getting the same fuel mileage than before the tune...So who knows, I know its not worse though...

[Duc Hunter]

OUTRNNR.......tried to PM you but your box is full!

I am putting in my Magnaflow exhaust today, and already have a K&N FIPK. So the next step will be AFC. I am curious how you like the PSC now? Do you think it is worth getting some timing control as well (FTC was it that did that?)? In your write-up you mentioned you got more torque with a 14:1 AFR but less power so you backed it down to 13:1. Is there any reason you did not leave the PSC tuned fro 14:1` through the torque peak, then transitioned it to 13:1 for the top end? Lastly, I wonder if the PSC can come with a map that is close (i.e. could I load you map to get me close) and then tune from there? The cars ECU should correct for altitude since it knows barometric pressure, air temp etc.

Thanks for all your help. I will have to give Brian a call.