Click no start... After contact rebuild and hot shot relay

I've searched this forum and the others out there about click no start woes. Most issues sound like they get fixed by either adding the hot shot or rebuilding the contacts. THOR's (my wife named him) issues have not been fixed by those two suggestions. The PO put new plugs, wires, and I think a new distributor/rotor in so I don't think it's any thing related to those.

This is what happens. Get in it for the day (I'm training in the navy right now so I don't drive it on a daily basis) and it starts up fine. Drive it to the gas station on base 2 mins away. Fill up the tank and I go to start it. 90% of the time Click no start. Not the fast clicking of a dead battery. Just click then nothing. If I drive it for 20-30 mins or more, run into a store for 5 or 10 mins, I'd say 80% of the time it fires right back up.

I'm going to have the battery checked, and maybe the alternator as well. I will also add that the windshield wasn't properly sealed and the interior leaked something fierce until 6 weeks ago I had one professionally installed. This caused leaking and tons of corrosion on/around the fuse box and the ecu in the bottom kick panel pass side. I'm mechanically savvy, but in terms of diagnosing and terms, I am terrible. Any thoughts or help would be appreciated.

You might check the circuit with a voltmeter(battery, starter, etc..). If your getting the no-start, you might get a friend to tap the starter with a mallet to see if the solenoid is binding up. In your case, might be hard or difficult to catch it in the act.
We had a bit of that symptom a while back, and a factory re-man'd starter really fixed that issue. Starters were not Toyota's strongest suit, as these can have contact and solenoid issues, especially with age/miles. Best of luck with it.
regards

What year is your truck? If it's '86 plus, you already have a relay, the hotshot might be superfluous.

Next time it fails, leave the key in the on position and jump the battery straight to the starter solenoid (smaller wire on the starter). If that starts the truck, then you've got trouble in the ignition circuit - somewhere between the key and the starter (or starter relay).

It's an 86 but I don't think it has the relay. I read about that jumper cable last night and will buy some wire to have on hand. Thanks for the reply.

Personally I'd start by pulling every fuse and fusible link one by one, and if the contacts look bad then clean them by using a little emery cloth/~600 grit sand paper on them before putting them back.

While it could be the alternator (mine was only bad when it was cold, and the only reason I'd think it might be it is if the battery is at a lower charge after 2 minutes than it was initially, basically not yet recovered from starting the first time), I'd look at connections, wires, and relays first.....if the jumping the starter from above doesn't point you in the right direction.

Clean Battery Contacts and Add Starter Relay

KidVermicious said:

What year is your truck? If it's '86 plus, you already have a relay, the hotshot might be superfluous.

Click to expand...

Correct. IF there is already a starter relay, no need for hot shot; Just fix the wiring flaw as shown on my signature.

THOR_runner said:

It's an 86 but I don't think it has the relay. I read about that jumper cable last night and will buy some wire to have on hand. Thanks for the reply.

Click to expand...

Is that the actual picture? OMG! - LOL!
Do you have ground wire from battery negative to fender?
What is that twist-on wire nut connector doing in there?
Before doing anything, clean that battery connector and all your connections. Need to have bare metal to bare metal contact. Gun-metal or grey metal is not electrically bare metal. Gotta see silver color of lead post and silver or copper color of connector.

Picture also confirms that early 86's may not have starter relay. That is an electrical blunder. The electrically sound solution would be to add a starter relay, like KidV did here. Use a relay known to handle at least 12Amps (that's current draw when energizing starter solenoid). 30Amp or 40 amp automotive relay would work. (What is that black relay, though?)

Next time it fails, leave the key in the on position and jump the battery straight to the starter solenoid (smaller wire on the starter). If that starts the truck, then you've got trouble in the ignition circuit - somewhere between the key and the starter (or starter relay).

Click to expand...

Since there is clearly no relay, no need to do this; Fix it right as mentioned above.

However, IF there were a starter relay, Here is a proven fact:
Stock Toyota starting circuit wiring on 22R-E 86-88's IS BROKEN. I explain & fix it here I absolutely have not seen any exception among T4r or yotatech forum members. IT IS DOCUMENTED BY TOYOTA ON ITS SCHEMATIC.

1) IF jumping the starter solenoid like KidV describes ^^ (Use my special tool here ) permanently fixes the problem on an 86-88 22R-E, I say, 99.9% probability above fix will help. Even if it were the solenoid contacts that is the issue, above fixes what's supposed to be fixed a wiring scheme that is absolutely broken.

2) IF jumping the starter solenoid permanently fixes the problem on 85 and earlier engines, it is because those starting systems do not have a starter relay. I strongly recommended you add starter relay like KidV did.

3) After you correct the blunder (which absolutely should be fixed because it is broken), you should feel the solenoid energetically actuate. If it still does not, possible that plunger is binding (That's when the tap test applies).

4) IF solenoid energetically actuates but you still get no crank, quite possible that solenoid contacts are bad. See 4Crawler's site

Battery and alternator were good.

Yes. That is an actual picture of THOR. He's a dirty old man lol.
I bought a new positive terminal last night to fix the loose nasty old one and will be putting that on today.

Yes, there is a wire nut twisty thing on that wire that I think goes to the fuseable link, correct me if I am wrong. I would like to replace that with a single piece of wire and was wondering if anyone knew what gauge to use.

The black relay that you are seeing is the hot shot relay. RAD, I'm pretty sure it serves the purpose of what kid's fix does.

Gotta run to a navy aircrew class grad celebration but I will post more later about my findings from the above suggestions and ......... Wait for it........ A new problem that surface last night while driving!!!!!! Yayyy!!!!

THOR_runner said:

It's an 86 but I don't think it has the relay. I read about that jumper cable last night and will buy some wire to have on hand. Thanks for the reply.

Click to expand...

My '86 didn't have a factory relay either. Your Hotshot does exactly what the homebrew solution in my thread details, so you're good on that score. If you're still getting the single click, then I'd think the Hotshot is defective or not installed correctly.

I'd follow RADs advice and clean up that wiring. Replace the corroded battery terminals, clean and reterm both ends of ALL the battery connections. Replace that wire nut with a waterproof connector or a soldered connection. Make sure you don't have any gremlins hiding in there at all, and then if you're still getting a click no start, proceed with troubleshooting with the knowledge that the wiring itself is sound.

THOR_runner said:

Battery and alternator were good....
I would like to replace that with a single piece of wire and was wondering if anyone knew what gauge to use.

Click to expand...

Keep same as stock. It's there to melt so the rest of the wiring does not, if anything goes wrong. Philbert on yotatech has post on finding right materials

The black relay that you are seeing is the hot shot relay. RAD, I'm pretty sure it serves the purpose of what kid's fix does.

Click to expand...

GOOD! Yes, it will. That will do exactly what Toyota intended the starter relay for. Wire it like KidV did.

Gotta run to a navy aircrew class grad celebration... A new problem that surface last night while driving!!!!!! Yayyy!!!!

Click to expand...

Congrats! Go Navy! That's where I learned automotive stuff, maintaining diesel engines, Ford 302, etc. Pic of my ship from 1991

Re: new problem? No problem. As long as you do clean, robust job, we'll exterminate those bugs in no time

Thanks Kid and RAD. It's awesome to have yours and other's knowledge made available to us through this forum.

As for the new problem. Friday evening, running some errands, driving it around and starting up no sweat. Like I said, the first start of the day is always good, and as long as I drive it for 20+ minutes after that first start, it's good to go for some time. However, enter new problem. The truck sat for 30 minutes and when I went to start it back up, it had a very rough, sputtery idle for maybe 10-15 seconds. Giving it a little gas and the idle was back to normal. However driving, it seemed under powered almost like it was running out of gas. Gas gauge doesn't work so I put 5 gallons in it (gas gauge then decided to start working and was showing 3/4 tank). Anything after first gear was very hesitant (auto tranny) and underpowered.

This morning it took about 5-6 seconds of turning over til it starts but idled ok. Drove it 25 yards and it stalled out. Since I had used my allotted first start of the day, I got click no start. Sat for a few hours while I replaced the battery terminals, battery posts and driver kick panel of corrosion. Had a friend take me to autozone to get a new fuel filter which I thought might be the culprit. Strike. no good. The filter was just a cheap guess. I haven't searched much on this one as it just popped up but any feedback would be cool.

As for the click no start:
Cleaned the battery posts, put new terminals on the cables and traced the battery cables. Negative goes to a ground on the engine, but also has a eyelet in the middle of the cable as if it could have grounded somewhere else near the starter, but I couldn't find anywhere else where it might attach to. Positive line goes to starter bolt.

As for the hotshot relay: I'm almost positive I wired it up correctly. Thick red wire to the starter post with the positive battery cable, thick purple to the smaller plug on the starter, then the smaller purple wire to the ignition wire that used to be connected to the smaller plug on the starter.

I will look into Philbert's write up to correctly replace that wire nut job.

Thanks for your service RAD! What ship is that? Looks like there was a lot of paperwork with that one!

Photos from today.


The vacuum lines are all jumbled. In guessing these aren't supposed to look like that, right?


I'm pretty sure the PO replaced the dizzy cap and put new wires and plugs in. They look fairly new.


Fuse block before. Lots of corrosion/white powder


After cleaning and new fuses.


Is this switch factory? Doesn't look like it would be. No idea what it used to go to...

Just read Philbert's discussion on FL wire. 10 ga solid wire with 14 ga insert close to the battery side with parallel connections, soldering, and heat shrink not skipped. Any specific length for the 14 ga insert? I was just gonna do 1" or 2".

I wouldn't be surprised if that extra switch was once to an alarm, an inside the car kill switch. I've seen that type of thing on at least 4 cars I've owned (both 4runners, a 3000gt, and a Prelude). As long as the rest of the alarm is gone it's good to go, but since it's already there I'd just leave it and maybe at some point you could repurpose it.

Your new problem makes me think fuel too.

THOR_runner said:

As for the click no start:
Cleaned the battery posts, put new terminals on the cables and traced the battery cables. Negative goes to a ground on the engine, but also has a eyelet in the middle of the cable as if it could have grounded somewhere else near the starter, but I couldn't find anywhere else where it might attach to. Positive line goes to starter bolt.

Click to expand...

That eyelet is a frame ground, probably somewhere underneath the fender? As long as you're on a roll, there should be another ground from the battery to the body, and another yet between the motor and the body (behind the valve cover underneath the heater hoses).

As for the hotshot relay: I'm almost positive I wired it up correctly. Thick red wire to the starter post with the positive battery cable, thick purple to the smaller plug on the starter, then the smaller purple wire to the ignition wire that used to be connected to the smaller plug on the starter.

Click to expand...

I don't know what Painless's colors are but that sounds right - does the relay need to be grounded?

giro said:

I wouldn't be surprised if that extra switch was once to an alarm, an inside the car kill switch. I've seen that type of thing on at least 4 cars I've owned (both 4runners, a 3000gt, and a Prelude). As long as the rest of the alarm is gone it's good to go, but since it's already there I'd just leave it and maybe at some point you could repurpose it.

Click to expand...

Rog. I'll have some fun with mods one day when it's running properly.

KidVermicious said:

Your new problem makes me think fuel too.







That eyelet is a frame ground, probably somewhere underneath the fender? As long as you're on a roll, there should be another ground from the battery to the body, and another yet between the motor and the body (behind the valve cover underneath the heater hoses).







I don't know what Painless's colors are but that sounds right - does the relay need to be grounded?

Click to expand...

Check on the battery to body ground.
Check on the battery to engine ground

Negative on the battery to frame ground

And hard negative on the motor to body ground (if this is in fact the ground you were talking about)


Was checking forums regarding underpowered/possible fuel issue and many mentioned o2 sensors, egr valves, air flow meter etc. I don't have a reader and auto zone can't read it on my year. Is there one you guys recommend? I have had a CEL come on after driving for and distance under load, but it goes off upon coasting for 5 seconds. Also the temp gauge always reads at 1/4 gauge when warm.

Also painless is grounded to fender it is attached to. Didn't sand down to bare metal but I don't know if that matters.

Could having only 2 of 4 grounds connected really cause this big of issues?

code reader isn't necessary for these. the FSM breaks down the way to interpret CELs by watching the number of flashes in a sequence.

i wouldn't start replacing parts until you've verified they need to be replaced. you'll need a volt/ohm/multimeter to do this. get one. it'll be cheaper than throwing money away by replacing perfectly functional parts.

you stated right off that the contacts in the solenoid weren't the problem. did you replace them? did you replace the plunger, or at least clean off the contact surface? within the last 3 months, i've replaced solenoid contacts in my runner (yesterday), and my wife's corolla (same starter series), which solved the intermittent click/no-start on her's, and the sudden manifestation of it in my runner. see the recent posts in my build thread for pictures/details of the contact replacement.

wally

Electricity needs a ground or it isn't electricity, bad grounds can cause all sorts of trouble. I'm not saying that's your trouble, but it sure couldn't hurt to reterminate all of those. Shiny metal makes the best grounds.

Your truck is OBD1 - there's some codes in there, but you can't get them with a scanner. You CAN get them with a paperclip... I don't have the link on my phone, google "4crawler engine codes".