Toyota FJ Cruiser vs. Hummer H3

Hey all,

I know that the FJ is not out yet but these two vehicles will be neck-and-neck with each other. Similarly priced. Similar customer base. Note: I am not considering the Xterra because it clearly falls behind these two vehicles in off-roading.

I testdrove a Hummer H3 this past weekend with my brother and his family. Conclusion: quite impressive.

- For top-of-the-line, it costs around $36-39K, including leather, 33" All-terrain tires, 4:1 transfer case, rear locker, NAVI, etc..

- Interior is pretty nice. Quality is probably not as nice as 4runner, but very nice for a GM car. Materials fit tightly and are of high-quality (for GM).

- Seats were comfortable. Getting into and out of the rear door is a bit tough, but decent. It is certainly better than my brother's LR Discovery SII.

- The ride was excellent. I could not believe it. Smooth, comfortable, even when driven off-road (mild-mod terrain).

- Wind noise was well-controlled (slightly behind 4runner). Road noise was non-existent, even with the aggressive off-road tires!

- 4-LO was impressive...tremendous crawl ratio (56:1 with automatics; 68:1 with manual). Throttle changes when switched to 4-LO...excellent for off-road crawling.

- Underbody is not totally tucked in. Similar skidplates as 4runner. This is surprising because the H2's underbody is relatively clean.

- Rear leaf springs...and it's mounted BELOW the axle. I don't get this. I wish that Hummer would have fixed this. They should have used coil springs, especially in a truck that only has a payload of 1150 lbs (thus, the heavy duty carrying capacity of leaf springs are not needed). I guess this is cost-cutting because this is carried over from the Colorado truck.

- Engine was weak. This rig needs a stronger engine. Period. Passing on the highway needs planning ahead of time. Acceleration is barely adequate. However, this is less of an issue off-road due to the crawl ratio.

- Windows are too small and rear view is bad. This truck needs a rearview camera or sonar.

- Turning radius is good (for a Hummer).

- Monsoon radio has a lot of bass...strange that this system only has 200 watts...it sounded stronger. However, the mids and highs were weak. So, if you're into bass, this system is perfect...if you're more into music details, then this system will disappoint.

- Rear cargo is kinda small and up high. The door itself opens/closes smoothly.

That's all i can think of right now. I can't wait to testdrive the FJ.

My neighbod has an H3 and he tells me about how weak the 3.5L I-5 engine is. He took his H3 to Oceano Dunes to play with his quads and off-road, but getting over the hills carrying a large load really put the engine to its limits. GM developed the 5-cylinder for better fuel economy than power, which I think was a mistake because it's not all that great with fuel economy either.

An overweight, underpowered Chevy Colorado!

Also the FJ should cost much less.

Koz

Koz said:

An overweight, underpowered Chevy Colorado!
Koz

Click to expand...

That may be so...but the Colorado frame is quite nice. It is one of the rare midsize truck frames that are fully boxed front to rear (Nissan Frontier has it). Toyota Tacoma frame is NOT fully-boxed. Colorado has done well in crash testing. So, the frame is fine.

Underpowered? True. No argument.

But, in off-roading, the H3 makes up for lack of engine power with it's monstrous transfer case. 4:1 low range + 4.58 axle ratio. This is torque multiplication big time! This even beats Jeep Rubicon. The only problem is that all of this is linked to a rather old (but reliable) 4-speed auto or 5-speed manual. Despite this, crawl ratio is still around 56:1 (auto) or 68:1 (manual). You just cannot beat these crawl ratios, short of a Rubicon (which has 6-speed manual).

Now, you add in 33" true all-terrain tires (Bridgestone Dueler AT non-REVO with triple sidewall), approach/departure angles rivaling Jeep Wrangler, and bumpers attaching directly to frame with tow D-rings, and you get a pretty capable rig right off the showroom floor.

The Toyota FJ will have a hard battle to fight among the hardcore off-roaders, who nowadays have more options than ever before from the showroom floor...FJ vs. Hummer H3 vs. Jeep Rubicon Unlimited. IMHO, the FJ and Rubicon represents two extremes...FJ is the comfy ride, Rubicon the extreme off-roader. The H3 represents a compromise between these two extremes.

My opinion.

There is one disappointment with both H3 and FJ Cruiser. Apparently, when you engage LO-range and the rear locker in the H3, traction control is disabled completely. Therefore, the front axle is completely open. I had initially hoped that the front axle would still have traction control because this would provide awesome traction (rear locker + ATRAC in front).

With the FJ, apparently, you have to choose between ATRAC/VSC or rear locker...NOT both! This sucks IMO. I guess that this is the same for Tacoma. To make across the Rubicon trail, Toyota engineers apparently had to modify the FJ to have both ATRAC and rear locker working together. This apparently will not make it to production.

Thai said:

There is one disappointment with both H3 and FJ Cruiser. Apparently, when you engage LO-range and the rear locker in the H3, traction control is disabled completely. Therefore, the front axle is completely open. I had initially hoped that the front axle would still have traction control because this would provide awesome traction (rear locker + ATRAC in front).

With the FJ, apparently, you have to choose between ATRAC/VSC or rear locker...NOT both! This sucks IMO. I guess that this is the same for Tacoma. To make across the Rubicon trail, Toyota engineers apparently had to modify the FJ to have both ATRAC and rear locker working together. This apparently will not make it to production.

Click to expand...

Very interesting!

Sooo....the fj didn't make it across the Rubicon in "stock" form.

yeah sounds disappointing, sort of false advertising..

It is a credible rumor...however, read this thread and decide on your own:

http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=73121

Read the post by "4WD Toyota Owner Magazine"

"Yes, they ran the whole trail from start to finish. Only thing they changed was the tires, and fiddled with the electronics so that A-TRAC worked with the locking rear diff. Normally it's one or the other, not both together. The rock sliders are in fact OEM, and the rig's frame is built for them specifically."

I seriously hope that Toyota will offer a REAL all-terrain tire in a good size, at least as an option. The FJ that made it thru the Rubicon had on BFG AT KO (32" i think)...so hopefully, Toyota will offer it from the showroom floor. Hummer does it...and hopefully, Toyota will do the same.

Was reading more last night...apparently, in the H2, you can have BOTH rear locker and ATRAC (front axle) working at the same time. There is actually a separate switch for activating ATRAC while rear locker is on. I guess that H3's system is simpler than H2's.

Thai - If those guys were able to get ATRAC and the locker to work together then maybe they'd post up the instructions to do it. Hopefully you don't need any specialized equipment but who knows.

sharp4runr said:

Thai - If those guys were able to get ATRAC and the locker to work together then maybe they'd post up the instructions to do it. Hopefully you don't need any specialized equipment but who knows.

Click to expand...

Well, the problem is that you apparently cannot order the FJ with both ATRAC and rear locker. Remember, this is not fact yet, but it looks like it. So, if you order ATRAC, then you will need to get an aftermarket locker or retro-fit the E-locker from Toyota.

Toyota engineers messed with the FJ electronics to make it work together. Therefore, i am not sure if any of those reporters know how it was done.

Hopefully, the report/rumor is wrong. I am praying that the FJ will have both.

Thai said:

Hopefully, the report/rumor is wrong. I am praying that the FJ will have both.

Click to expand...

Why? Are you thinking about trading down to a fj? Huh? Huh?

Because now that pricing has been announced I'm am seriously thinking about trading my beloved 4Runner for one. I may wait for the convertable though.

What I hate about the FJ....

...is that it was made. You see, I was sure that I can just use my 4runner to be the off roader and get myself the Dodge Challenger (2007 or 2008) as the muscle car. Now with the FJ, I know I will end up getiing the FJ!

Re: What I hate about the FJ....

ToyotaDan said:

...is that it was made. You see, I was sure that I can just use my 4runner to be the off roader and get myself the Dodge Challenger (2007 or 2008) as the muscle car. Now with the FJ, I know I will end up getiing the FJ!

Click to expand...

Same thing here. The fj was the truck I wanted when I was looking for a truck in '03. Problem is it didn't exist. The 4Runner is awesome but I wouldn't have minded spending a few thousand LESS to get this awesome truck. I am going to have a hard time waiting for a convertable, but the 4Runner should help ease my anxiety until then.

toybox said:

Why? Are you thinking about trading down to a fj? Huh? Huh?

Because now that pricing has been announced I'm am seriously thinking about trading my beloved 4Runner for one. I may wait for the convertable though.

Click to expand...

Nah...i can't afford to get screwed again with a trade-in! However, my brother is looking for a "family off-roader" to go along with his Rubicon. I am pushing him towards either H3, FJ Cruiser, or 4runner.

Re: Re: What I hate about the FJ....

toybox said:

Same thing here. The fj was the truck I wanted when I was looking for a truck in '03. Problem is it didn't exist. The 4Runner is awesome but I wouldn't have minded spending a few thousand LESS to get this awesome truck. I am going to have a hard time waiting for a convertable, but the 4Runner should help ease my anxiety until then.

Click to expand...

I would also wait for side-crash testing data to come in. I am not a big fan of suicide doors. I would DEFINITELY get side-curtain airbags if you buy early.

Re: Re: Re: What I hate about the FJ....

Thai said:

....... if you buy early.

Click to expand...

I won't be buying early because like you I can't afford the hit on trade in and I'm not going to pay msrp, I'll wait. And I'm hoping in a year or two they will have a convertable.

I thought I heard a while ago about an H3 "Alpha" being brought out eventually. It will still have the 3.5, but will be supercharged. I can't remember where I heard or read this but if it is true I definately will be looking into the H3 as a choice for 4Runner trade in. That should make up for the lack of power, at least a little. I'm really starting to like the looks of them, very aggressive. Anyone else heard of this?

Solice said:

I thought I heard a while ago about an H3 "Alpha" being brought out eventually. It will still have the 3.5, but will be supercharged. I can't remember where I heard or read this but if it is true I definately will be looking into the H3 as a choice for 4Runner trade in. That should make up for the lack of power, at least a little. I'm really starting to like the looks of them, very aggressive. Anyone else heard of this?

Click to expand...

As of right now, this is pure rumor without any facts. I visit Hummer websites daily...no real info yet. If the engine bay is big enough, i would not mind having the Trailblazer's 4.2L I6 in the H3.