Where does toyota measure ground clearance? Obviously not the skid plate.

Mr. Lambdebois · Apr 14, 2006

I haven't measured but I am positive the front skid plate hangs much lower than the "rated ground clearance". I barely get 8 inches which is actually suprising because it looks lower to me.

Whats the deal? Seems awfully low .....

The clearance is alright everywhere else for the most part . Why put the front so low to the ground?

It just seems wierd to have so little clearance on a 4x4 suv?
Why design the rest with fair clearance and then put the front down so low. Crawling underneith the front skid I have much less room than on any other suv I have owned.

Don't get me wrong. I love this suv. I'm just curious if I will be able to go everywhere I could go in my 98 explorer with the 5.0l V8 and bfg AT ko's with limited slips in the front and rear and also if the front end on the 4th gen 4runner will be problemmatic due to the skid plates ground clearance.

I would like to think the 4runner will do as well if not better with with the low range and center locking differential.

What should I expect when I make it out to the BLM land for the first time in my new 4runner?

Thai · Apr 15, 2006

Mr. L, please see this thread for more info:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16674

What is BLM land??

As for your front end question, unfortunately, the government requires that SUV's front end be low so that it does not override a car's bumper in a crash. This is why ALL new SUVs have a low bumper or a low front crossmember. I am not sure about trucks, but i think that this also applies to new truck designs. Of course, if you want to get around this law in the future, then you need to buy a SUV with air suspension front & rear (aka Range Rover, Mercedes ML/GL, LX470, Touareg, etc.). The only Toyota/Lexus SUV that currently does not follow this requirement is the Land Cruiser/LX470 because the twin was design in 1998 before the requirement came out. I am sure that the next generation TLC/LX will be compliant...however, like Range Rover, it will have air suspension at four corners to get around this off-road impedance.

To answer the off-roading part of your question, you should be able to go far in your stock 4runner. However, you need to know it's limitations (ground clearance, angles, lowest part of suspension, etc.). Remember, your stock 4runner has the equivalent of limited-slip diffs in front, center, and rear. I doubt that your Explorer had this, unless you modified it heavily. Therefore, you just need to watch where you're going (aka wheel placement, drive line)...but after that, your 4runner should be able to get you through tough terrain.

Mr. Lambdebois · Apr 15, 2006

Thai said:
Mr. L, please see this thread for more info:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16674

What is BLM land??

As for your front end question, unfortunately, the government requires that SUV's front end be low so that it does not override a car's bumper in a crash. This is why ALL new SUVs have a low bumper or a low front crossmember. I am not sure about trucks, but i think that this also applies to new truck designs. Of course, if you want to get around this law in the future, then you need to buy a SUV with air suspension front & rear (aka Range Rover, Mercedes ML/GL, LX470, Touareg, etc.). The only Toyota/Lexus SUV that currently does not follow this requirement is the Land Cruiser/LX470 because the twin was design in 1998 before the requirement came out. I am sure that the next generation TLC/LX will be compliant...however, like Range Rover, it will have air suspension at four corners to get around this off-road impedance.

To answer the off-roading part of your question, you should be able to go far in your stock 4runner. However, you need to know it's limitations (ground clearance, angles, lowest part of suspension, etc.). Remember, your stock 4runner has the equivalent of limited-slip diffs in front, center, and rear. I doubt that your Explorer had this, unless you modified it heavily. Therefore, you just need to watch where you're going (aka wheel placement, drive line)...but after that, your 4runner should be able to get you through tough terrain.

Thanks for the info and link. BLM stands for Buero(sp?) of land management. A bunch of land owned by the government that you can go take your 4x4 out for some fun. Try a google search for "colorado blm land" and you will find a bunch on it.

Interesting about the regulations. Thanks for enlightening me. I am not suprised. So who is coming out with the aftermarket air suspension kit for us?

Actually the explorer had 3.73 limited slips front and rear. The tranny used a viscous coupling to distribute the power from front to rear so technically I guess it would be considered awd hence no low range. pre model they went from a normal 60/40 rear/front power split to a 50/50 power split. When slippige accured it the viscous coupling could change power up to 93 percent at the front or rear if I remember correctly. Either way it did great and allowed me to fly around mountain passes regardless if I was going to hit a pile of snow on the other sode of the tunnel and not worry about losing control. If there was a heavy snow storm moving in and my wife had to leave to go to work or something it would be a safe vehicle for her to drive and I would worry less.

Will the ground clearance keep me from going places I could go in my explorer? Obviously on road it should be great with a fulltime system.

Thanks again.

Thai · Apr 15, 2006

Mr. Lambdebois said:
Will the ground clearance keep me from going places I could go in my explorer? Obviously on road it should be great with a fulltime system.

Thanks again.

Doubt it. Placement of your front wheels over rocks is very important. Picking the right line to drive is also important. Unlike your Explorer, your 4runner has 4-LOW range...this will help you creep (crawl) over an obstacle. And then you add in ATRAC (4-wheel traction control). You have a good stock off-roader. I would suggest switching out the tires to something taller and more aggressive...to give you a bit more ground clearance and traction.

Have fun.

Mr. Lambdebois · Apr 15, 2006

Thai said:
This is why ALL new SUVs have a low bumper or a low front crossmember.

I completely understand reasons for making bumpers lower for safety reasons. The bumper is not the issue that concerns me though. It is the low crossmember and skid plate. On top of that the skid plate sticks out in front of the tires so it is sure to hit something over 8 inches before the tires contact an obsticle if not taken from an angle an carefull placement.

My old explorers bumper was around the same height but it had a lot more clearance under the crossmember.

I am going to start looking but I would bet that there are a few current 4x4 suvs that dont have the front crossmember so low to the ground. Do the new irs jeep GC's, and xterras which are both ifs vehicles have the front crossmember hang down as low? Oviously the wranglers don't have this problem with their SFA .

To me the crossmember doesn't look much higher than dare I say (gasp ) a subaru outback. :bash: I just went out and measured and the lowest part of the front skid plate was just above 8 inches. Slightly further back where the skidplate covers the oil pan I measured 7 1/2 inches. Thats really low IMO for a 4x4 suv.

Again. I'm not trying to bash the 4runner. I love this suv and it had the best overall package of what I was looking for in a suv and will handle 99 percent of my driving flawlessly. I am just trying to get a better understanding as to why the crossmember is so low. This is something I have not experianced in any of my previous suvs.

Thai · Apr 15, 2006

Mr. Lambdebois said:
Do the new irs jeep GC's, and xterras which are both ifs vehicles have the front crossmember hang down as low?

I am just trying to get a better understanding as to why the crossmember is so low. This is something I have not experianced in any of my previous suvs.

Yes...the new Jeep GC and Xterras all follow this requirement. The previous generations of these vehicles did not.

The low front crossmember is part of the safety package...learn to live with it i guess.

Mr. Lambdebois · Apr 15, 2006

Thai said:
Yes...the new Jeep GC and Xterras all follow this requirement. The previous generations of these vehicles did not.

The low front crossmember is part of the safety package...learn to live with it i guess.

Wow. Now I'm defenately going to start looking at other new suvs. When did manufactures have to start abiding to these regulations?

:cheers:

Thai · Apr 16, 2006

Mr. Lambdebois said:
Wow. Now I'm defenately going to start looking at other new suvs. When did manufactures have to start abiding to these regulations?:cheers:

My guess...around 2001-2002 designs.

00328 · Apr 17, 2006

This is the exact reason I've been considering a lift. Just not sure which way to go yet. Ground clearance is just plain unacceptable on a 4WD truck.
I guess the manufacturers figure that 98% of the people will never go off-road, so that's who they make them for.
On the runner, it seems to me that the front skid plate is a lot lower than the cross-member (I'll have to crawl under to take a look) so they could have engineered in more ground clearance up front if they wanted to.

RonMAIDEN · Apr 17, 2006

3rd gens even with the "fatlip" bumper have a slight better approach angle than the 4th gens but I'm going to have to measure my neighbor's 4th gen and see what the lowest part of his front bumper is.

Thai · Apr 17, 2006

On 4th gen, i believe that the lowest part is the front skidplate which attaches to the front crossmember.

Mr. Lambdebois · Apr 17, 2006

I measured the two lowest points of the skid plate. At the bottom in the front it was just over 8inch as the bottom which suprised me cause it seemed lower. Just a foot back I measured 7.5 inches:bash:

I didn't look to see if there was room for a better skid plate that would give more clearance and better approach angles but if it's possible I would defenately buy one.

Mr. Lambdebois · Apr 17, 2006

RonMAIDEN said:
3rd gens even with the "fatlip" bumper have a slight better approach angle than the 4th gens but I'm going to have to measure my neighbor's 4th gen and see what the lowest part of his front bumper is.

Yes. I measured mine right next to a 3rd gen. The third gen had at least an inch maybe even two at the front skid plate of more clearance. From that back there doesn't seem to be much differance but up front it is obvious.

RonMAIDEN · Apr 17, 2006

18" at the front curve of the bumper
15" at the very front of the engine skidplate
11.25" at the crossmember
10.5 at the lowest part of the rear diff
19 from the ground to the rocker panels below the doors
22" at each of the corners of the rear bumper
12" at the gas tank skidplate
12" at the spare tire

Mr. Lambdebois · Apr 17, 2006

RonMAIDEN said:
18" at the front curve of the bumper
15" at the very front of the engine skidplate
11.25" at the crossmember
10.5 at the lowest part of the rear diff
19 from the ground to the rocker panels below the doors
22" at each of the corners of the rear bumper
12" at the gas tank skidplate
12" at the spare tire

Oh great. Now I have a bunch of referance points to compare.

I'll have a full comparison later. :yesyes:

It's obvious you have more clearance as is. It would be interesting to compare your measurements to 4th gen with a 3inch lift.

:cheers:

A few questions
Does the tacoma skid plate you have give you better clearance than the stock one? Are your tires approxemetly a half inch taller than the oem size? Stock suspension and what year 3rd gen?

Falls · Apr 17, 2006

MR. L , Sorry to say the Explorer did not have L/S diff's in front and read . The V8 model's were AWD with no switchable 4wd mode's , the power transfer's where need sometime's most to the front wheel or back wheel and power to which ever is spinning the most. You 4R is totally different 4wd system and not an AWD system. It will be light years ahead of your explorer as far as where it can go off road.

I had a 99 Expl. and it was a selectable 4 wd mode and that could be ordered with a L/S diff. only in the back on the selectable 4wd mode. and not awd because I ordered the V6, V8's were AWD.

I know you want to lift and I say go for it but my guess the 4R 4th gen has more ground clearance then your old Expl. stock for stock or maybe with 265/70/17's on the 4R. The rear diff was pretty low on the the EXPL.

Falls · Apr 17, 2006

After reading this it got my curiousity so I went out in the garage with a measuring caliper.

Rear diff. = 10.0 " at lowest point in center
Front cross member skid plate = 9.5"

I have 265/70/17's on with no lift

I pulled out my Toyota 06 brochure and it say's ground clearance is 9.1"

OFF TOPIC = Gas milage rated for V8 4x4 16 city / 19 hi-way. I get that if not slightly more.

To me atleast and the 06 brochure , no exageration on Toyota's part here.

As I stated in other post's I think stock ( with the exception of a good AT tire in a 265/70 for a slight extra edge ) this is probably one of the most capable SUV's out there today with it's nimbleness, not being wide like H1,H2 or H3 I've been able to slip in and out of alot of tight spaces other's can't.

Also Mr.L , My buddy has a 98 Merc. Mountineer with V8 awd , and could never go with me off road in his truck. Once we started up a rocky,rutted hill, snow covered he was done without 4lo and the ATRAC.

Mr. Lambdebois · Apr 17, 2006

Falls said:
After reading this it got my curiousity so I went out in the garage with a measuring caliper.

Rear diff. = 10.0 " at lowest point in center
Front cross member skid plate = 9.5"

I have 265/70/17's on with no lift

I pulled out my Toyota 06 brochure and it say's ground clearance is 9.1"

OFF TOPIC = Gas milage rated for V8 4x4 16 city / 19 hi-way. I get that if mot slightly more.

To me atleast and the 06 brochure , no exageration on Toyota's part here.

As I stated in other post's I think stock ( with the exception of a good AT tire in a 265/70 for a slight extra edge ) this is probably one of the most capable SUV's out there today with it's nimbleness, not being wide like H1,H2 or H3 I've been able to slip in and out of alot of tight spaces other's can't.

Also Mr.L , My buddy has a 98 Merc. Mountineer with V8 awd , and could never go with me off road in his truck. Once we started up a rocky,rutted hill, snow covered he was done without 4lo and the ATRAC.

Are you sure the skid plate at the lowest point is 9.5 inches? I get just barely over 8 inches at the lowest sopt on the front and about a foot back even less at around 7.5 inches. 265/70/17 tires would add a half an inch but where is the rest of the difference between yours and mine coming from?

Your right the 5.0l did lack a low range which did make it more dificult in certain situations. Overall for most stuff it did exceptionally well though. It was the most stable of any vehicle I have driven at highway speeds in the snow. The automatic system used on the v6 exporers at the time had a low range but when in auto mode would need the rear wheels to slip before the fronts would start getting power . The v8 just went when where it was pointed and was very driver friendly and never slipped unless pushed really hard. Does your friend have limited slips in his explorer? I did have shackles and cranked up torsen bars for an extra 2 inches of lift also. I can gaurentee you that my explore had a limited slip in the rear from the factory. I remember looking up the tag on the housing and on the door jam. Most came with either 3.55 or 3.73s. You could get it with a limited slip even though most had open diff from what I have seen. I know because mine had one. If it didn't have a limited slip then why did it have clutch packs?

I hope you are right in that I will be able to go more places in the 4runner. I will take your word untill I get out there and see for myself.:cheers:

Mr. Lambdebois · Apr 17, 2006

After seeing your measure ment I had to grab my trusty florida sportsman lawstick:lmao: and go poke around to recheck my measurements. Apparently I mismeasured the first time.

It appears that the lowest point of the skid plate at the front was just under 9 inches. Slightly furtur back it is about a half inch lower. The rear differential was measured at just under 10 inches so it seems I am on par with you minus the tires you have and the half inch more clearance they give you.

Cool. I guess I have an inch more clearance in the front than I thought.

Mr. Lambdebois · Apr 18, 2006

Here is a poster who claims to have 3.73 limited slips in his 5.0l awd.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132701&highlight=5.0l+limited+slip

and another one....

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126862&highlight=5.0l+limited+slip

and another one

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118432&highlight=5.0l+limited+slip

These are the possible axle codes... for the third gen explorers/ mountaineers.
41 - 3.27 non-limited slip (Explorer/Mountaineer)
45 - 3.55 non-limited slip (Explorer/Mountaineer)
46 - 3.73 non-limited slip (Explorer/Mountaineer)
42 - 4.10 non-limited slip (Explorer/Mountaineer)
D1 - 3.27 limited slip (Explorer/Mountaineer)
D4 - 3.73 limited slip (Explorer/Mountaineer)
D2 - 4.10 limited slip (Explorer/Mountaineer)

As you can guess. I had had D4 on my differential housing...

Where does toyota measure ground clearance? Obviously not the skid plate.

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