330 Mile Car tow trip with V8

well, I finally got to test out one of the reasons we got a 4Runner, to tow our show car. We had to pick it up in Baltimore from having its stereo rebuilt, drove 330 miles down from where I am in NY with the trailer I just purchased.

Our 18' solid open deck trailer weighs around 1250 pounds. the car with all the modifications on it might be around 3600 or so.



The 4Runner was awesome the whole trip back. Kept it in 4th and it pulled great. 70-75 mph were no problem to tow safetly with it. No sway problems with our trailer. Hills were no problem for it, it cruised right up them. Averaged 13.6 miles while towing on the way back. Used 93 Octane.



The only thing, is the 4Runner squats under the load. This did not cause any handling problems tho. I am looking into a weight distribution hitch to solve this problem. I made 3 stops along the way home just to check everything was still tight, which it was.

Bro, that's awesome!! I'm luving both the 4Runner and hooked up Camry.

What's the specs on the Camry?

I'd try loading that cool car rear first,the front being the most weight,might level your beautiful 4runner a bit.looks great!

Firestone Ride-Rite?

I have been thinking about sag with heavier trialers. How about the Firestone Ride-Rite airbags for the rear springs? Price is right too.

http://www.ride-rite.com/Ride-Rite.htm

$80 here for manual system: http://www.suspensionconnection.com/cgi-bin/suscon/4135T.html

having been a show competitor, that is one of the nicest camry's I have seen...nice job bro

thanks guys for the suggestions. I was thinking about a product like that, but dont know if a weight distribution hitch would be better.

here is the mod list for the Supercharged Camry for those that were wondering:

ENGINE

TRD Supercharger
5.5psi PulleyBoys upgraded Pulley
JP Performance Headers, Y-Pipe & Catback exhaust
TRD 4Runner automatic transmission cooler (just added)
TRD Radiator Cap (just added)
RMM Air Intake
Nitrous Express EFI System
RS Akimoto Engine Hoses
Polished Valve Cover

SOUND/VIDEO

Polk/MOMO Component Set (just added)
12 Polk/MOMO 8" Subwoofers & Grills
4 Polk/MOMO amps
Crossfire eq
JVC deck and 12 disk changer
DEI DVD/MP3 player
Two 7" Widescreen DEI LCD's in Trunk Lid
5.6" DEI Removable LCD in engine bay
5.6" Parepheral Vision LCD (flip down from roof in front)
Stinger battery, cap, wires, fuse
Sony Playstation, TV tuner
Digital camera in trunk keyhole
Macintosh IPOD 5gig MP3 Hard Drive

EXTERIOR

JT Autostyle EVO II Front bumper (just added)
Extreme Rear Bumper (molded)
TRD Side Skirts
TRD Rear Lip Spoiler
Painted rear tailights
Rear emblems shaved
Custom Carbon fiber hood
OMP hood pins
APC clear corners
Matrix bulbs
Tinted windows
StreetGlow neon underbody kit & in front bumper grills
StreetGlow strobes in front corners and rear
Custom Designed Graphics


INTERIOR

Carbon fiber dash kit
Momo pedals
TRD Boost Guage
Corbeau TRS seats (just added)
Corbeau Harnesses (just added)
APC gage face
ACC Custom carpet
StreetGlow neon under dash & back seat
Removed rear seat and built custom floor with custom mounted baby seat

WHEELS/SUSPENSION

18" Quantum Tek Alloys S-10
BFG G-Force KDW T/A 225/40ZR18
Ground Control Adj. Springs
Tokico Gas Shocks
TRD Strut Tower Brace
TRD Solara Rear Sway Bar
KVR Slotted Rotors

SPONSORS

Kinderhook Toyota
Infamous Graphics
Nitrous Express
Tokico Gas Shocks
Quantum Tek Alloy Wheels
BFGoodrich Tires
KVR Performance
Meguiars
Crutchfield
Directed Electronics
Auto Meter
StreetGlow
Corbeau Seats
Polk Audio
GTP International

Appeared in Sprite TV Commercial "Lady Racer"
Featured on ESPN2 Novermebr 2003
Featured on 'On The Scene' VDO Magazine
First Place Toyota Lowrider Summer Slam 2002, Englishtown, NJ
Hot Import Nights Boston 2003 3rd Place 4 Door Extreme
Best Vynal Graphics Import Xpression PA 2003
12 First Place Toyota Finishes
2000 Max Power G-Award
5 First Place Finishes Sound Quality 1-600 Novice
Import Xpression Best Car Sound Quality, Lime Rock 2002
around 30 more awards

www.eddieandamanda.com

I thought the V8's already came with a weight distributing hitch?

The V8 does. There is also weight distibuting hitches for trailors with sway bars. These hitches act to prevent sag at the connection point where the trailor is on the tow ball. Thereby keeping the nose of the truck from going skyward.

Ahh ok. I never knew what the sway bars were for and though the sagging was taken care of by just the hitch.

I've also towed with the 4Runner. It towed great. I started a thread here:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1591

Our 18' solid open deck trailer weighs around 1250 pounds. the car with all the modifications on it might be around 3600 or so

Click to expand...

From the pictures, it looks like a closed deck steel trailer. For a 18 footer, it usually weights about 1800 lbs to 2000 lbs.... An aluminum one would be about 1200 lbs.

The only thing, is the 4Runner squats under the load. This did not cause any handling problems tho. I am looking into a weight distribution hitch to solve this problem.

Click to expand...

A weight distributing hitch definitely helps. Another way to do it would be to move the car rearward about a foot or 2 so that the tongue weight would be decreased.

But I would NOT recommend backing up the car onto the trailer because that way, the weight would be too far back and causes swaying problem.

Wai said:

From the pictures, it looks like a closed deck steel trailer. For a 18 footer, it usually weights about 1800 lbs to 2000 lbs.... An aluminum one would be about 1200 lbs.

Click to expand...

The title for my trailer states its 1250. Do they put just a round-about number on trailer titles? Im new to all this. Looks like your doing the same type of towing as I am. That is what I meant, a weight distribution hitch for the trailer. Thanks for the input.

See pages 3-5 for pic's.
.
http://www.iboats.com/sites/trailerboats/site_page_1925/images/tow503.pdf

Towing

I've towed a Porsche 911 on a Trailex aluminum open trailer for six years now. Please don't even think of trying to level the rig by adjusting the car's position on the trailer or (God forbid!!!) backing it on. You will surely encounter instability problems and "swaying". The tongue weight should be 10 - 12% of the trailer's laden weight.

I used Air Lift air bags on my '98 4Runner to level the rig and was very pleased with them. They were cheap, installed easily and lasted the 5 years/75K miles I owned the truck with no problems. When not towing, they can be deflated to 5 psi and you won't know they're there.

IMHO, load-leveling hitches are a mild PITA, and not really necessary if you can level your rig some other way. BTW, I, too, am skeptical about the 1250# weight if that's a steel trailer. I'd bet ya a case of Heineken's that it's closer to 2K#.

I now own an '03 Limited 4WD V8. It has the rear air suspension, which is great - you simply drop the trailer on the hitch and the suspension adjusts itself for a level rig. I tow at about 70 mph, in 5th gear ("D") on level terrain. I averaged 14.5 mpg (calculated, not from the inaccurate trip computer) over the 5,000 miles I towed last season.


Regards.

eddie said:

The title for my trailer states its 1250. Do they put just a round-about number on trailer titles? Im new to all this. Looks like your doing the same type of towing as I am. That is what I meant, a weight distribution hitch for the trailer. Thanks for the input.

Click to expand...

That is probably the tow capacity (per axle or per wheel) of the trailer. I'm not too sure tho since the title from different states might be different. You can always call up the manufacturer and find out how much it weighs.

Nice cars BTW.

khaug said:

Please don't even think of trying to level the rig by adjusting the car's position on the trailer or (God forbid!!!) backing it on.

Click to expand...

I agree that backing up the car onto the trailer is bad. But why is it so bad to position the car to decrease the tongue weight? By backing up a foot or tow, the majority of the weight would still be between the tow vehicle and the trailer axles. So IMO it's really nothing wrong with that. Maybe you have some other concerns that I'm not aware of?

Maybe you based your opinion on your particular application, which is, the vehicle being towed is rear engine? :

Every trailer manufacturer I'm aware of and Toyota Motor Corp. recommend that trailer tongue weight be 10-12% of the laden trailer weight. This means that the rear of the tow vehicle will naturally sink when the trailer is attached - i.e., this is a normal condition.

If you try to overcome that by adjusting the position of the car and succeed in levelling the rig in this manner, it means you've eliminated the needed tongue weight and now have an unbalanced load which is likely to have stability problems. In other words, your goal in positioning the car on the trailer should be to achieve the proper tongue weight, not to level the rig.

My Trailex was purpose-built to tow a rear-engined car. It has the axles placed well behind the midline to provide the proper weight balance. It tows like a dream and has never been even a little unstable over the 30K miles or so I've towed with it.

My comment on the probable weight of Eddie's trailer was based on similar steel trailers owned by friends, both of which are over 2,000#, and the weight of a U-Haul tandem axle car trailer rented by another friend, which weighed 2250#.

khaug said:

Every trailer manufacturer I'm aware of and Toyota Motor Corp. recommend that trailer tongue weight be 10-12% of the laden trailer weight. This means that the rear of the tow vehicle will naturally sink when the trailer is attached - i.e., this is a normal condition.

If you try to overcome that by adjusting the position of the car and succeed in levelling the rig in this manner, it means you've eliminated the needed tongue weight and now have an unbalanced load which is likely to have stability problems. In other words, your goal in positioning the car on the trailer should be to achieve the proper tongue weight, not to level the rig.

Click to expand...

When I suggested to move the car a foot or 2 rearward, I'm not suggesting to get the tongue weight below the recommended amount.

Just simple math, for a 3600# fwd Camry (eddie's car) with 60% weight in front, it is 2160# at the front wheels. Then the front wheels are positioned approximately 1/3 of distance between the front axle of the trailer and the rear axle of the tow vehicle, which induces about 720# of tongue load on the hitch. Plus the tongue load from the trailer itself (approx 150# for a 2000# trailer), the total tongue load would be at least ~870#.

With Eddie's car and trailer add up to be about 5600#, the required tongue load should be somwhere around 560# (10% of total trailer weight). Now having 870# of tongue load means that there is an extra 310# pressing on the hitch for nothing but crushing the suspension.

I'm not saying that the rear suspension of the 4Runner would or should not squat under trailer load. That's impossible. I'm just suggesting that there might be more tongue load on the hitch than what is really required for stability and causes *excessive* squat as seen in the pics.

Advice to Eddie to find out the best result:
bring your setup to a weight station (or any garage that can measure vehicle weight) and find out what the tongue load is. Then adjust the position of the car until you get a tongue load of ~10% of the total trailer + Camry weight. Mark the trailer so next time you can load the car at the same position again.

Good luck!

Wai has given good advice for the best way to determine trailer loading, IMHO, but I have to disagree with some of his/her math. Tongue weight is measured at the ball socket of the trailer coupler and has nothing to do with the distance between the front axle of the trailer and the rear axle of the tow vehicle. For confirmation of this, see the diagram "Tongue Load" in your owner's manual (p. 258 in my '03 manual).

When you measure tongue weight, it should be done with a 2x4 or similar prop of the correct length between the coupler ball socket and the scale platform bearing the weight of the loaded trailer.

Actually, Wai's info has raised a couple of other issues you might want to be aware of. I didn't realize newer Camrys were as heavy as 3600# (our last, a '94, was just over 3K, as I recall). The max rated trailer weight for gen IV 'Runners with the load-carrying hitch is only 5,000#, and the max tongue load is 500#. You could be a bit over this, which would support your plan to look into a weight-distributing hitch.

In any event, I hope Wai and I have now thoroughly beaten this topic to death and that your subsequent tow miles are all safe and serene.

khaug said:

Tongue weight is measured at the ball socket of the trailer coupler and has nothing to do with the distance between the front axle of the trailer and the rear axle of the tow vehicle. For confirmation of this, see the diagram "Tongue Load" in your owner's manual (p. 258 in my '03 manual).

Click to expand...

To get a rough estimation of tongue weight, we can assume the tongue and the front portion of the trailer deck to be a simply supported member, with the trailer front wheels supporting one end, and the hitch ball supporting the other. By placing a load on that simply supported member, the reactions induced on both ends would be proportional to the position of the load. The reaction on the front axle of the trailer would be the axle weight, and the reaction on the hitch ball would be the tongue weight.

In other words, if the tailer has a very long tongue, the reaction induced on the hitch ball (tongue weight) would be very small relative to the axle weight.

khaug said:

I didn't realize newer Camrys were as heavy as 3600# (our last, a '94, was just over 3K, as I recall).

Click to expand...

I'm also not sure how much a stock Camry weigh. But looks like Eddie's car has a lot of audio stuff in there that might add another 100-200 lbs.

khaug said:

In any event, I hope Wai and I have now thoroughly beaten this topic to death and that your subsequent tow miles are all safe and serene.

Click to expand...

I think it has been a pretty healthy discussion.
I saw that you are from MI. Dunno if you frequent the track Gingerman a lot. I'm usually there 3 to 4 times a year. Maybe I would run into you there.

I saw that you are from MI. Dunno if you frequent the track Gingerman a lot. I'm usually there 3 to 4 times a year. Maybe I would run into you there

Allright, another track junkie who tows with a 4Runner! I do instruction for TrackMasters, TrackTime, Porsche Club and BMW Club.

Alas, my car ('88 911) is geared all wrong for GingerMan. I'm either on the rev limiter in 2nd or below the power curve in 3rd. This, plus the tire-eating sufrface, has led me to avoid GingerMan, and I haven't been there for 4-5 years now. My itinerary for last season: Barber Park, VIR, Mosport, Watkins Glen, Mont Tremblant, Grattan, Waterford Hills, MIS. If you go to GingerMan, you can get to Grattan. You should - it's the most challenging (and dangerous) track I do.

Hope we connect at a driver ed event some day. My car is a dark metallic brown '88 911.

Regards.