Toyota replacing V8 in the newer Tundra
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Thai
Elite Member
The problem with this is that no one really knows how many Tundras are affected...apparently, there were 37,000 Tundras sold in the first three months.
This is why i am hesitant to buy any 1st year newly designed product, even when it's a Toyota. If i had to pick a 1st year product to go with, then i would probably go for Honda. As I pointed out in the past, Toyota's recent designs have not been flawless as they have been in the past. And you know the American manufacturers/dealers will be jumping on this very quickly. Toyota should know better than to rush something into production!
This is why i am hesitant to buy any 1st year newly designed product, even when it's a Toyota. If i had to pick a 1st year product to go with, then i would probably go for Honda. As I pointed out in the past, Toyota's recent designs have not been flawless as they have been in the past. And you know the American manufacturers/dealers will be jumping on this very quickly. Toyota should know better than to rush something into production!
Thai
Elite Member
LOS ANGELES -- A batch of camshaft failures in 5.7-liter V-8 engines has dinged the launch of the Toyota Tundra pickup.
Camshafts in 20 engines have snapped, says Toyota spokesman Mike Michels. The outside camshaft supplier, which Toyota declined to identify, has traced the problem to "a metallurgical defect in the casting, a flaw in the metal which they have corrected," he says.
To date, Toyota has built 30,000 of the engines, and the company is determining how many might be affected. Michels says that it was "an early batch," and that "Toyota is confident in the production from that point on."
A camshaft is a spinning rod that opens the engine's intake and exhaust valves in sequence. Toyota's camshafts are designed to avoid collateral damage if they snap.
Toyota rushed the 5.7-liter engine into production in time for the Tundra's February launch. The 5.7-liter initially was scheduled to arrive this summer. But Toyota dealers and product planners told the manufacturing arm that the Tundra needed the big V-8 at launch because the 4.7-liter V-8 would not make a strong enough statement.
The 5.7-liter represents more than 70 percent of the engine mix.
Toyota's top executives repeatedly have stated their concern that Toyota is growing too quickly to keep quality at past high levels.
Toyota likely will not test each camshaft to see if it is prone to failure. Rather, customers whose camshafts fail will have their entire engines replaced.
One Toyota dealer service technician who declined to be identified says Toyota asked him to ship overnight a defective engine to its V-8 engine plant in Alabama.
"The guy was towing a small trailer, not under full load," the technician says.
Camshafts in 20 engines have snapped, says Toyota spokesman Mike Michels. The outside camshaft supplier, which Toyota declined to identify, has traced the problem to "a metallurgical defect in the casting, a flaw in the metal which they have corrected," he says.
To date, Toyota has built 30,000 of the engines, and the company is determining how many might be affected. Michels says that it was "an early batch," and that "Toyota is confident in the production from that point on."
A camshaft is a spinning rod that opens the engine's intake and exhaust valves in sequence. Toyota's camshafts are designed to avoid collateral damage if they snap.
Toyota rushed the 5.7-liter engine into production in time for the Tundra's February launch. The 5.7-liter initially was scheduled to arrive this summer. But Toyota dealers and product planners told the manufacturing arm that the Tundra needed the big V-8 at launch because the 4.7-liter V-8 would not make a strong enough statement.
The 5.7-liter represents more than 70 percent of the engine mix.
Toyota's top executives repeatedly have stated their concern that Toyota is growing too quickly to keep quality at past high levels.
Toyota likely will not test each camshaft to see if it is prone to failure. Rather, customers whose camshafts fail will have their entire engines replaced.
One Toyota dealer service technician who declined to be identified says Toyota asked him to ship overnight a defective engine to its V-8 engine plant in Alabama.
"The guy was towing a small trailer, not under full load," the technician says.
Thai
Elite Member
Here is a pic for illustration (from another forum) of what the camshafts do:
[/IMG]
Well, if i had a Tundra and this happened, then i would NOT be a happy camper for two reasons...1. i will not have any power (possibly stuck in the middle of nowhere while off-roading), and 2. i have to rely on a Toyota dealer to swap out an engine. The sad thing is that all the new owners will be hesitant to take their Tundra on a long trip or off-roading trip because they do not know if their Tundra is affected. I doubt that Toyota will have a recall to replace all the early engines...too much money. It could very be like what they are doing on the V6 Camrys and Lexus ES350...wait till it breaks and replace it.
Well, if i had a Tundra and this happened, then i would NOT be a happy camper for two reasons...1. i will not have any power (possibly stuck in the middle of nowhere while off-roading), and 2. i have to rely on a Toyota dealer to swap out an engine. The sad thing is that all the new owners will be hesitant to take their Tundra on a long trip or off-roading trip because they do not know if their Tundra is affected. I doubt that Toyota will have a recall to replace all the early engines...too much money. It could very be like what they are doing on the V6 Camrys and Lexus ES350...wait till it breaks and replace it.
Camprunner
New member
Im with Thai on the "Not me" for the first year on my cars and trucks. 
charlier180
New member
5.7-liter Toyota Tundras Hit with Camshaft Failures
This is probably the last thing the New Tundra and Toyota wants/needs right now:
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070531/AUTO01/705310379/1148
Interesting to read the pasteing that Toyota is taking on some of the other automotive forums.
Some of those people simply have no clue and are throwing all sorts of crap at the wall in hopes some will stick.
Personally, Toyota screwed up, realized they screwed up and are dealing with it.
That is more that can be said of some other automakers who deny their mistakes and refuse to deal with them
until they become a business and public relations nightmare.
Edit: Charlie, I took the liberty of merging your new thread into the one that was already started by Thai.
GG
This is probably the last thing the New Tundra and Toyota wants/needs right now:
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070531/AUTO01/705310379/1148
Interesting to read the pasteing that Toyota is taking on some of the other automotive forums.
Some of those people simply have no clue and are throwing all sorts of crap at the wall in hopes some will stick.
Personally, Toyota screwed up, realized they screwed up and are dealing with it.
That is more that can be said of some other automakers who deny their mistakes and refuse to deal with them
until they become a business and public relations nightmare.
Edit: Charlie, I took the liberty of merging your new thread into the one that was already started by Thai.
GG
charlier180
New member
Re: 5.7-liter Toyota Tundras Hit with Camshaft Failures
GG Thanks, I did not see the thread that was already started on this topic.
I too would NOT be a happy camper had I purchased a new Tundra with this problem. One would think that Toyota could determine what engines and Tundras are impacted by this situation. It may take some time to cross reference the parts supply with the engine build sheets and the build sheets and VINs of the trucks but in theory it should be possible.
Some articles are tossing around a cost of $5K per engine times 30K engines. If that is true, the tab would be around $150 million.
Not exactly chump change for most companies. If the cost is shared with the supplier of the defective part Toyota would not be on the hook by itself.
Ultimately Toyota has some very SERIOUS decisions to make regarding this situation. Handled properly, the consequences both short and long term for Toyota and the Tundra may be manageable. Not handled properly, Toyota could very well kiss their reputation GOODBYE and just stick a fork in the Tundra line because it could be done.
BTW, I get the feeling that Toyota wants to replace the entire engine to prevent a whole host of problems that could crop up if they asked the dealer channel to actually fix these engines.
charlier180 said:
GG Thanks, I did not see the thread that was already started on this topic.
Thai said:
I too would NOT be a happy camper had I purchased a new Tundra with this problem. One would think that Toyota could determine what engines and Tundras are impacted by this situation. It may take some time to cross reference the parts supply with the engine build sheets and the build sheets and VINs of the trucks but in theory it should be possible.
Some articles are tossing around a cost of $5K per engine times 30K engines. If that is true, the tab would be around $150 million.
Not exactly chump change for most companies. If the cost is shared with the supplier of the defective part Toyota would not be on the hook by itself.
Ultimately Toyota has some very SERIOUS decisions to make regarding this situation. Handled properly, the consequences both short and long term for Toyota and the Tundra may be manageable. Not handled properly, Toyota could very well kiss their reputation GOODBYE and just stick a fork in the Tundra line because it could be done.
BTW, I get the feeling that Toyota wants to replace the entire engine to prevent a whole host of problems that could crop up if they asked the dealer channel to actually fix these engines.
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Thai
Elite Member
Re: 5.7-liter Toyota Tundras Hit with Camshaft Failures
Well, it's not like Toyota could hide it...this is not like a sludge problem that develops over time. This is a sudden camshaft failure resulting in total engine failure...there is no way for any company to brush this under the rug. Toyota had to do this to avoid being further embarrassment before 20/20, Consumer Reports, or local news exposed this to the public. They did the same thing with ES350/Camry v6 transmission problem.
charlier180 said:
Well, it's not like Toyota could hide it...this is not like a sludge problem that develops over time. This is a sudden camshaft failure resulting in total engine failure...there is no way for any company to brush this under the rug. Toyota had to do this to avoid being further embarrassment before 20/20, Consumer Reports, or local news exposed this to the public. They did the same thing with ES350/Camry v6 transmission problem.
charlier180
New member
Re: Re: 5.7-liter Toyota Tundras Hit with Camshaft Failures
So Toyota has a history of going public with it's problems.
Some might view that as a company acknowledging and facing up to their problems/mistakes. Too bad other automakers are not like that.
From on-line accounts it appears that a German automaker is having engine problems with their 3.6L V6s. They are replacing the engines that are defective. So far, they have remained silent, no press releases acknowledging the problem (like Toyota) no public apologies (like Toyota). As of now it would appear that the scope of the German automaker's problem may be as large or larger than Toyota's Tundra engine issue.
I find it interesting to see how two different automakers deal with very similar engine problems. One brings it out in the open while the other appears to be brushing it under the rug.
Thai said:
So Toyota has a history of going public with it's problems.
Some might view that as a company acknowledging and facing up to their problems/mistakes. Too bad other automakers are not like that.
From on-line accounts it appears that a German automaker is having engine problems with their 3.6L V6s. They are replacing the engines that are defective. So far, they have remained silent, no press releases acknowledging the problem (like Toyota) no public apologies (like Toyota). As of now it would appear that the scope of the German automaker's problem may be as large or larger than Toyota's Tundra engine issue.
I find it interesting to see how two different automakers deal with very similar engine problems. One brings it out in the open while the other appears to be brushing it under the rug.
Thai
Elite Member
Re: Re: Re: 5.7-liter Toyota Tundras Hit with Camshaft Failures
All manufacturers are the same. Here is another article on the Tundra engine problem: http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070531/AUTO01/705310379/1148
As for Toyota acknowledging problems, here are a few from top of my head that Toyota were slow to respond or flat out deny: sludge issues in car V6's, Tacoma (and FJ) rear axle breaking, rear end clunk on 4runners/GX, Camry V6/ES350 transmission failure, and head gasket issues on 2nd gen 4runners.
Toyota is better than everyone else (at least in the past) in initial quality and durability. However, Toyota has not always been the best to deal with when you do run into problems. (Of course, Lexus is the exception.) How many people on here have complained about the rear end clunk on 4runners?? And what has Toyota done about it?? (Sad part, a lot of the time, Toyota will deny the link between GX470 and 4runner...to serve their purpose.) Or ask the Tacoma owners their experience with Toyota after breaking their rear axle.
charlier180 said:
All manufacturers are the same. Here is another article on the Tundra engine problem: http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070531/AUTO01/705310379/1148
As for Toyota acknowledging problems, here are a few from top of my head that Toyota were slow to respond or flat out deny: sludge issues in car V6's, Tacoma (and FJ) rear axle breaking, rear end clunk on 4runners/GX, Camry V6/ES350 transmission failure, and head gasket issues on 2nd gen 4runners.
Toyota is better than everyone else (at least in the past) in initial quality and durability. However, Toyota has not always been the best to deal with when you do run into problems. (Of course, Lexus is the exception.) How many people on here have complained about the rear end clunk on 4runners?? And what has Toyota done about it?? (Sad part, a lot of the time, Toyota will deny the link between GX470 and 4runner...to serve their purpose.) Or ask the Tacoma owners their experience with Toyota after breaking their rear axle.
charlier180
New member
Thai said:
Volkswagen and Audi. The 3.6L engine used in the VW Passat and some Audi models (I believe the Q7) appears to have problems. If one reads the following on-line forums the problem appears to be with a bolt on the oil pump not being strong enough or not being torqued properly. The bolt problem appears to then cause internal engine damage.
http://forums.audiworld.com/q7/msgs/15081.phtml
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3256094
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3193697
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.c...e3b53
Thanks for posting some of Toyota's other vehicle issues that they have not taken responsibility for. From the list it appears obvious that Toyota is like many of the other automakers when it comes to ignoring problems. Too bad some of the Toyota on-line forums, Toyota Owners and the Media do not bring more attention to those issues and "motivate" Toyota to take action.
One has to wonder if the way in which Toyota is dealing with the Tundra engine issue is a change in policy by Toyota to better deal with issues or simply a PR thing. Time will tell I guess.
BTW, I am the only 4Runner owner who does not have the "clunking" problem with their 4Runner? Almost 3 years old and no clunk. Also do not seem to have the seat rattle either.
Guess I must be lucky.
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Am I over-simplfying things by thinking that you could reasonably replace the camshafts before they break? I'd have more faith in having a dealer to do that than I would having them pull the whole engine.
Once it breaks, who knows what else could have been damaged, so I'd feel better as an owner with a new engine. That's a good solution at that point, rather than fixing a million pieces.
Replacing camshafts would have to be cheaper than new engines, especially if large numbers are prone to failure. I think it's silly to wait for total failure and not do anything. Like others have said, how do you trust the vehicle with the looming possibility of engine failure? Just recall them and fix them in advance.
Once it breaks, who knows what else could have been damaged, so I'd feel better as an owner with a new engine. That's a good solution at that point, rather than fixing a million pieces.
Replacing camshafts would have to be cheaper than new engines, especially if large numbers are prone to failure. I think it's silly to wait for total failure and not do anything. Like others have said, how do you trust the vehicle with the looming possibility of engine failure? Just recall them and fix them in advance.
Thai
Elite Member
charlier180 said:
Well, as i said above, Toyota has no choice but to do what they are doing now. Sad part is that, according to reports/rumors, Toyota knew about this problem before the release of the Tundra.:bash: They rush it through so that it can get the market share quickly. So, if these reports are true, then Toyota knew that they would be screwing customers but went ahead with it because they knew that the Tundra release will be far less spectacular (aka much less profitable) if they did not have the 5.7L V8 available at the release. The 4.7L V8 is simply too small and too weak compared to the competition's optional V8.
