Originally Posted by jbtvt

Just straight wrong on almost every point. One issue with one MT component doesn't make it more reliable or durable. People absolutely beat the snot out of almost every series of Toyota MTs with virtually no issues. I own several ATs and am well aware of serious, not uncommon failures with both, and these are some of the stronger trans. Ever have your MT back flush radiator fluid into it? Of course not. Crap out at ~150k like multiple member here have posted about on every generation of TrRs? Nope. Saying this statement on any actual offroading forum would get you laughed off the page.

Towing is identical. As far as lifespan with regular towing, even with a trans cooler? Good luck with that AT, you'll need it, but an MT wouldn't even know the difference.

AT fluid is black after 50k miles, MT is still golden honey well into six digits.

Offroad performance depends on driving style. Auto can crawl more easily but also prone to surging once you get over any obstacle leading to gas/brake/gas/brake driving. Manual with low gearing, and esp with aftermarket gearing is more consistent power. Driven both many, many times and I greatly prefer manual, as do most who have the option.

Traffic is the single point I agree with, but I've met people who prefer manual even there. Gas mileage is debatable these days, likely due to R&D budget difference but for years MT had it locked down.

Hills? Nah bruh. Do you even shift?



The latest trans have a 1mpg diff in favor of auto, and that's with hundreds of millions of dollars R&D difference in spending on auto vs manual. EPA isn't shutting down anything over 1mpg, and if Toyota put a fraction of development $ into manual that they do into auto they could change that pretty easily. They won't, because the demand isn't there.

I prefer AT for daily driving in the Boston traffic I deal with regularly but love my MT for other situations, and it is much more fun to drive. If I had to pick one it'd be AT so I don't blame people shelling out for new cars for setting the current trend but will be a sad day when I have to sell last MT and can't find another at a reasonable price.