[blizz86]

So a few weeks ago i noticed a shuddering when braking under 5-8 mph on a downhill parking area, and then again at a nearly level surface when the engine was cold. I didn't really experience it much, but now its back. I have narrowed it down to basically only under COLD start engine temps (tranny didn't have time to warm up yet), with level to downhill grades.


I can think of only one instance when I have been the cause of any tranny damage. I was replacing the inner axle seal a while back, and i was being a huge idiot and put the truck in gear (without the drum on the hub) to see if any more gear oil would leak. The speed of the wheel wasn't too fast but i definitely know i damaged it a bit when i couldnt stop it any way other than forcing it back in park. (Looking back, i probably should have just turned the car off in gear and let it slow down on its own )

I also drained/refilled the tranny fluid with Chevron ATF (meets our t4r requirements, and i didn't measure how much i drained. I basically filled to manual specs, and it wasn't at the proper level under warm conditions so i kept filling until it was. Now under cold temps, im well over warm temp ATF levels. Could this be the cause?


Could something like Dr Tranny Instant Shudder Fixx help?
Dr. Tranny Instant Shudder Fixx

or the LugeGard ATF protectant with LXE
LUBEGARD Automatic Transmission Fluid Protectant

[AZTOY]

Sounds like you may have over filled. I am not a mechanic, but I know if you just drain and fill you should only put back what you took out and add more if needed. I would think an over fill is not good. But it may be the damage that you think you caused also. Take it to mechanic to get an inspection, then you will know for sure. Unless you know what to look for and do it yourself.
I wouldn't recommend "fix it" fluids unless you have already given up on your tranny.

[4x4runner2002]

Are you checking the tranny oil while running and in neutral or park.

[Coveman]

Overfill bad-Transmissions that are overfull can "whip" the fluid, by catching the fluid on the rotating parts. This is bad for a number of reasons- It causes air to be trapped in the fluid (foam) causing a loss of the ability to transmit pressure to the clutch packs and bands, and move pressure control valves, causing a slipping condition. this in turn causes damage to components and a great deal of heat, also very bad for the transmission.

By all means remove the extra fluid by either siphoning it off or draining the transmission case.

[blizz86]

Originally Posted by Coveman

Overfill bad-Transmissions that are overfull can "whip" the fluid, by catching the fluid on the rotating parts. This is bad for a number of reasons- It causes air to be trapped in the fluid (foam) causing a loss of the ability to transmit pressure to the clutch packs and bands, and move pressure control valves, causing a slipping condition. this in turn causes damage to components and a great deal of heat, also very bad for the transmission.

By all means remove the extra fluid by either siphoning it off or draining the transmission case.

Sounds about right.. ): Do you know how much is req for a drain/refill?
manual says dry fill is 7.2 L or for drain/refill 1.6L, or 1.7 QTS. I dont think this is enough though...

Originally Posted by AZTOY

Sounds like you may have over filled. I am not a mechanic, but I know if you just drain and fill you should only put back what you took out and add more if needed. I would think an over fill is not good. But it may be the damage that you think you caused also. Take it to mechanic to get an inspection, then you will know for sure. Unless you know what to look for and do it yourself.
I wouldn't recommend "fix it" fluids unless you have already given up on you tranny.

Originally Posted by 4x4runner2002

Are you checking the tranny oil while running and in neutral or park.

I believe this was in park..

[Full_Throttle]

Follow the Toyota manual as to how to properly check the fluid level and DO NOT drive it again until you are certain the level is correct. This could be a very expensive lesson for you.

[blizz86]

Originally Posted by Full_Throttle

Follow the Toyota manual as to how to properly check the fluid level and DO NOT drive it again until you are certain the level is correct. This could be a very expensive lesson for you.

Lol ive been driving it for the past 2 months like this, no shuddering or gear slippage. Only this shuddering problem when braking under 5mph and its cold.

I dont have the manual as i bought the truck used. Im just getting numbers from the FSM that was online.

[LittleCaesar]

Just do a regular drain first after getting the ATF to 150F at least(warmed up). Once you have collected the drained fluid, use a magnet to see if there are any metal shavings in the fluid. If there are none, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

Then refill. Check it while running, warmed up, and shift from P to 1 and back to P. Once you see fluid on the dipstick, remember to add small amounts at a time.

I have used Lucas ATF in the red bottle and have nothing but good stuff to say about it. It says to use 1oz per 1qt of ATF fluid (the A340F on paper takes 9.8qts). I'd tell ya to use 1/2 the bottle (1/2oz per 1qt).

[cj80cruiser]

Originally Posted by blizz86

I can think of only one instance when I have been the cause of any tranny damage. I was replacing the inner axle seal a while back, and i was being a huge idiot and put the truck in gear (without the drum on the hub) to see if any more gear oil would leak. The speed of the wheel wasn't too fast but i definitely know i damaged it a bit when i couldnt stop it any way other than forcing it back in park. (Looking back, i probably should have just turned the car off in gear and let it slow down on its own]

Here's a few people that got away with shifting from drive to reverse. I think your ok on this part.

Accidentally put tranny in reverse while going 40 mph forward

Additional info that may be helpful. I drained my tranny with the front wheels on ramps. I got exactly 5 quarts out.

[blizz86]

Originally Posted by cj80cruiser

Here's a few people that got away with shifting from drive to reverse. I think your ok on this part.

Accidentally put tranny in reverse while going 40 mph forward

Additional info that may be helpful. I drained my tranny with the front wheels on ramps. I got exactly 5 quarts out.

Ehh thanks for that post, but i know that if you shift accidentally somehow into reverse going straight, the computer overrides it and just throws the transmission into neutral. I dont think it got much damage (although there was a little gear grindage :l , just overfilled). I will drain and refill probably tomorrow.

[blizz86]

Well, heres an update.

Checked my transmission: HOT, in neutral, after cycling the gears from L to D and whatnot. Cleaned off speed sensors for the ABS, but there wasn't really anything on them.

I was actually low on fluid.. added about another quart and i am at correct HOT levels in neutral.

The problem is still there.

The shuddering, i think, has lessened but is still there. Again, it only occurs when i am JUST about to stop after very slow braking, and it goes away once ive driven around and warmed up to operating temps. I am thinking about disconnecting the ABS fuse tomorrow and seeing if it still does this, to isolate whether or not this is actually the abs or possibly the torque converter..


I also did some research and it seems there are many other makes and models that do this: something called early ABS activation. But it seems these cases are constant and do not disappear when the engine is warmed up.

[BrianSD_42]

The shuddering, i think, has lessened but is still there. Again, it only occurs when i am JUST about to stop after very slow braking, and it goes away once ive driven around and warmed up to operating temps. I am thinking about disconnecting the ABS fuse tomorrow and seeing if it s

How sure are you it is the transmission?

Shuddering when braking is a pretty common symptom or either warped rotors or buildup on the rotors. Either way it is a common problem with a known solution.

[blizz86]

Originally Posted by BrianSD_42

How sure are you it is the transmission?

Shuddering when braking is a pretty common symptom or either warped rotors or buildup on the rotors. Either way it is a common problem with a known solution.

Not my rotors. Already did the TBU with 231mm calipers. Braking has zero wobble, can brake all the way down mile long hills with no issues. This ONLY occurs with cold start when i am JUST about to stop after braking (already going under 5 mph). edit: i should say it goes away righ after its warmed up and driven around a little bit.

Its either my torque converter or the ABS system.

[BlackCat914]

Originally Posted by blizz86

Not my rotors. Already did the TBU with 231mm calipers. Braking has zero wobble, can brake all the way down mile long hills with no issues. This ONLY occurs with cold start when i am JUST about to stop after braking (already going under 5 mph). edit: i should say it goes away righ after its warmed up and driven around a little bit.

Its either my torque converter or the ABS system.

its your torque converter. While an ABS problem can be intermittent, I think your symptoms are trans related.

[LittleCaesar]

No harm in disconnecting the fuse, it is rather easy to pull out.

Did you find any material (chunks of the like) in the old ATF?

Have you heard anything like whining coming from the converter area? If it is the torque converter as BC 914 states, then it would be worthwhile to get changed before the converter goes south and takes the transmission with it. I think you can get the TC changed out for $750 or so. If that is the route you take, check the condition of the rear main seal at the same time.

Keep us informed.