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Old 09-13-2014, 11:06 AM #1
JoshuaCJCohen JoshuaCJCohen is offline
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Rear Axle Problems

Hi,
I live in Japan and have a 1997 3.0L Diesel Turbo Surf, VIN KZN185 with the 1KZ engine.
Coming down a wet hill I dropped it from Drive to 2 in order to avoid riding the brakes all the way. Unfortunately I was going too fast when I did this, caused some engine braking, and lost traction with the road.

The car started a slow skid to the left and I turned with it. I ended up hitting the far side curb going almost completely laterally after completing a 180 resulting in both left wheels hitting the curb at the exact same time.

The results were both tires separated from the rim and flat and the rims and deflated tires up on the sidewalk. Luckily there was a curb (and not a ditch) and no cars or people were coming up the other lane. Rear rim was cracked at the very edge where it hit the curb and there appears to be no impact damage to the front rim. Rear tire was chewed up from trying to get the Surf onto the flatbed tow truck.

I bought a used tire and had the mechanic put it on the front rim and used the spare for the rear wheel. Slight drive revealed a very noticeable wobble and bumping, supposedly from the left rear. Mechanic tells me it is most likely the left axle shaft being bend or warped.

He says I can either replace the left side or the whole axle. He says he prefers to replace just the left side. I guess if you are familiar with the process it isn't as daunting at it seems to me. On the other hand, I would prefer to replace the whole axle as that is something I can do with a friend.

Unfortunately, and unbelievably, finding a surf in one of the many junk yards here has proved difficult. After calling and visiting over 15 yards I finally found someone who said he has three; two still have their rear axles. Unfortunately they are from 1994 and 1993. One is a KZN130 and I don't know what the other is but they both have the rear shock absorbers behind the axle housing while my KZN185 has the shock absorbers in front of the housing. From what I gathered the KZN185 is a 3.58 ration, 2 pinion, open differential (Ratio I understand to be engine speed vs axle speed but I really don't know what the pinion and open differential means.)

I have done some research and gotten help from another site and found out the RZN185 has a 3.15 ration (not helpful) and a 2 pinion, open differential.

The VZN185 has a 3.58 ration (helpful) but a 4 pinion, open differential.

I believe this means I could not use a rear axle from either of these models, even if I could find them, which so far, I can't.

That leads me to believe I have to either replace the left side with new OEM parts or used parts from a 1st or 2nd Gen Surf, as that is all I can find here.

What I have not been able to determine so far is whether or not the left side axle and other parts from a different Gen and model will work with the KZN housing and differential. I have found site to order the seals and replace those consumables but I can't determine if the axle from another model will fit.

Any help would be most appreciated.

Standing by for questions. I have pictures if needed. Thank you in advance.

Take care,
Josh
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Old 09-13-2014, 11:24 AM #2
Andy in Pa Andy in Pa is offline
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First and foremost, make sure the axle shaft is bent by putting the rear up on jack stands, remove the wheel and drum and spinning the shaft in the housing. You'll see the wobble in the flange if its bent. You can put a ruler or some sort of straight edge against the flange to see if its tweaked, but you probably wont need to do that. That is probably what it is, but check it anyway if you havent yet. It is quite common for the flanges on axle shafts to bend when sliding into a curb like that. Then go pull another rear shaft out of a similar year t4r and swap it in. Should be the same shaft in any model type (sr5, limited, surf...etc..). Just make sure you confirm that the shaft you pull is not also bent.

Its not a hard job to change a shaft... much easier than swapping out the whole rear axle. You may need to change the seal on the end of the housing too. Also not a hard job, and there is lots of info on this site for both tasks.
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Old 09-13-2014, 11:35 AM #3
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Search the site for leaking rear axle seals. Not that yours are leaking, but the information to pull the shafts is in that thread.
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Old 09-13-2014, 09:08 PM #4
JoshuaCJCohen JoshuaCJCohen is offline
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Thanks for the info

Andy, 7echo,
Thanks. I found BigFishAllDay's seal post while doing research, which is how I found this forum.

Andy,
Here in Japan we don't have sr5, Limited, etc. I know the first three letters on the VIN plates. Do you know how those two pieces of information line up? Is the KZN185 a Surf only or does that VIN number also have an American name?
Is the RZN185 or VZN185 a sr5 or Limited?

You specifically said to pull a rear shaft from a similar year. Is the shaft out of a 96, 98, or 99 going to be different? Is the shaft from a 1994 KZN130 going to be different? I have access to 1st and 2nd Gen vehicles, but so far not to 3rd Gen. I called Lakeland Toyota of Florida about ordering parts. They still haven't gotten back to me.

Can you recommend a reliable source for ordering parts? And if I have to buy a new shaft, what else do I need and what can be reused? I'm going to pull the wheel off today and take a look.

One thing I don't understand is where the gearing takes place. Is it all in the differential or is there going to be specific gearing on the shaft? Specifically the end of the shaft that fits into the differential.

Someone I was talking to about this said if I was pulling the shaft I would need the spider gears too. From what I can tell they are in the differential and I won't be opening that. What are they talking about?

Thanks,
Josh
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Old 09-13-2014, 11:08 PM #5
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You're going to want the shaft from a 96 to 99 shaft iirc. You're not going to want to order from the states as the shipping will be crazy high to an fpo address (I'm assuming you're military) sadly it's not going to be easy to find the parts to fix it in Japan either as Japan doesn't really like older vehicles. I would recommend a new OEM as it will probably be the easiest and less prone to mistakes.

The axle shaft slides into the differential and inside the diff is where the gearing takes place. The spider gears are what's inside an open differential to distribute the torque evenly....until one wheel is in the air that is.

You can't use a shaft from a 94. I believe it is a different length.
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Old 09-14-2014, 12:32 AM #6
JoshuaCJCohen JoshuaCJCohen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kryptoroxx View Post
You're going to want the shaft from a 96 to 99 shaft iirc. You're not going to want to order from the states as the shipping will be crazy high to an fpo address (I'm assuming you're military) sadly it's not going to be easy to find the parts to fix it in Japan either as Japan doesn't really like older vehicles. I would recommend a new OEM as it will probably be the easiest and less prone to mistakes.

The axle shaft slides into the differential and inside the diff is where the gearing takes place. The spider gears are what's inside an open differential to distribute the torque evenly....until one wheel is in the air that is.

You can't use a shaft from a 94. I believe it is a different length.
Ok. I got the attached picture from a local auto parts place and was told I need everything in this picture (except the drum) plus the following:

Shaft Bearing Retainer - 42421-35050 - $35
Oil Seal - 90313-54001 - $3
Bearing - 90363-40068 - $30

When I searched for "1997 Toyota KZN185 Rear Axle Shaft" I came up with the following page.

http://jp-carparts.com/toyota/partli...ype=4&fig=4102

This lists every piece, both left and right. From their table I created my own and removed all the right hand pieces and the Disc, Rear (part code 42431).

I compared what I came up with vs BigFishAllDay's list. On the table on the page there are five listings for 42403A, Piece, Balance Rear Drum. I don't think I need any of those as I'm not changing out the drum.

There are also three shafts listed, 42312. I don't know what month the Surf was manufactured. There are two parts numbers for the three listed shafts. I don't know which I need.

I have attached the pdf version of the part list. Can someone please point me in the right direction? I'd rather not buy stuff I don't need but I'm happy to make smart investments in preventive maintenance. Since it's going to be apart there is no reason not to replace all the seals etc. I just don't know what is what.

I have ordered OEM parts for my Ducati from the states before. To arrange shipping usually requires a bit of conversation with the seller but it has not been a show stopper in the past. Can anyone recommend a reliable retailer with good customer service?

Thanks,
Josh
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Old 09-16-2014, 11:30 AM #7
JoshuaCJCohen JoshuaCJCohen is offline
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Thank you

Thank you everyone. After 15 junk yards and a week of searching I gave up and ordered everything OEM from a local parts store. Should arrive on Friday and hopefully the shop can put her back on the road by Saturday morning.

Great site and I look forward to finding out what else I can do to improve my Surf.

Take care,
Josh
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Old 09-16-2014, 11:42 AM #8
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Where in Oki are you? I was stationed at Camp Courtney back in the 90s. I had a few different off road rigs when I was there. I had one of the Mitsubishi CJ3B Jeeps and a Samurai. I can't remember the name of the place but there was a parts place somewhere outside the Kadena airbase off 58 that was always helpful.

Post some pics of your rig when you can.

I used to love hanging out at Ikei island beach and jumping off the red bridge there... I miss Oki
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