User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-06-2015, 10:00 AM #1
thomas_guerra thomas_guerra is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: san antonio,tx
Posts: 8
thomas_guerra is on a distinguished road
thomas_guerra thomas_guerra is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: san antonio,tx
Posts: 8
thomas_guerra is on a distinguished road
help starting problem diagnosis

hey guys, looking for some help on my wife's 2.7l 98 4runner AT.
I did a quick search but didn't see anything quite related on the first few pages. If i missed something, I apologize in advance. Feel free to point me in the right direction if there is already a thread on this.

My wife truck has recently (starting about 2 weeks ago, happening daily) had a starting issue. It would crank over extremely well, but start after an amount of time. (First a few cranks, then progressively more and more.) The longest I've been at it is maybe 15 minutes. Once it starts it runs just fine. There is a CEL but my Bluetooth OBD doesn't read any codes, nor does the service at Autozone. BTW Starting fluid would start the car for a second or two, then die...

I used to hear the fuel pump whenever I stopped cranking, but today the vehicle would not start, and I couldnt hear the fuel pump.

I guess what I'm looking for is the fuel pump schematic/pinout to try to jump the pump and diagnose that.

Sorry to be long winded, but has anybody else had similar problems?

Also, not sure if it is related, but the ignition cylinder locked up on us. The key would not turn past the locked position, but I somehow got it loose and the key now works.

Thanks for any and all help-
thomas

Last edited by thomas_guerra; 08-18-2015 at 05:36 PM. Reason: better title
thomas_guerra is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 08-06-2015, 11:29 AM #2
A.Wilson013's Avatar
A.Wilson013 A.Wilson013 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,527
Real Name: Alex
A.Wilson013 will become famous soon enough
MY GARAGE
A.Wilson013 A.Wilson013 is offline
Senior Member
A.Wilson013's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,527
Real Name: Alex
A.Wilson013 will become famous soon enough
MY GARAGE
Fuel pump circuit opening relay is under the dash right next to the hood release handle.

To jump it you'll connect the two horizontal terminals which is kinda tricky due to the angle. With the jumper in place, turn the key to "on" and the pump will run.

You'll want to jump the two bronze/copper terminals in this picture... On the plug side, obviously.





For future reference, try to be a bit more concise in your title... It'll draw more attention.
__________________
2006 Lexus GX 470 Sport- RR Diff Lock, Metal Tech Sliders, RCI Aluminum Skids, Front Runner Slimline II Rack, SCS F5s, 255/80R17 ST Maxx , OME BP-51s, Dirt King UCAs, Metal Tech RR Lower Links
2016 Lexus IS300 F Sport- F-Sport Air Filter RR Racing tuner

A.Wilson013 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 08-06-2015, 12:07 PM #3
jeremyc74 jeremyc74 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 1,389
jeremyc74 is on a distinguished road
jeremyc74 jeremyc74 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 1,389
jeremyc74 is on a distinguished road
Jumping the fuel pump is a good place to start, but the ECU won't fire the pump if it doesn't sense the engine cranking, so it could be a sensor. I believe the crank position sensor triggers that, but I'm not sure.

It's strange that you have a CEL and aren't seeing any codes. I'd dig into that a little further. Maybe try another reader. What happens when you send it a reset signal?
jeremyc74 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 08-06-2015, 04:31 PM #4
thomas_guerra thomas_guerra is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: san antonio,tx
Posts: 8
thomas_guerra is on a distinguished road
thomas_guerra thomas_guerra is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: san antonio,tx
Posts: 8
thomas_guerra is on a distinguished road
@A.Wilson013 : Yeah I saw that my title wasn't all too descriptive but was unable to edit it.
Thanks though for the pin out. I'll try it when I get off of work.
@jeremyc74 : the crank position sensor? You wouldn't happen to have the voltage those are supposed to be at for me to test it? And my Bluetooth obd claims to see the ECU, says there's no pending codes, no stored codes. But if I tell it to reset the CEL, it goes away...
thomas_guerra is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 08-06-2015, 10:06 PM #5
thomas_guerra thomas_guerra is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: san antonio,tx
Posts: 8
thomas_guerra is on a distinguished road
thomas_guerra thomas_guerra is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: san antonio,tx
Posts: 8
thomas_guerra is on a distinguished road
I just got home from work. The last time the truck started was about 3 am this morning. This morning (745a-8a) is when I couldn't hear the fuel pump. Now at 845pm, the truck started up no hesitations, first try. I don't know if the time of day has anything to do with it, or the duration of time that has passed since the last start up.

I'm beginning to think ignition switch could be the culprit.

Any thoughts?
thomas_guerra is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 08-06-2015, 10:14 PM #6
IBallEngineer's Avatar
IBallEngineer IBallEngineer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Covina, CA
Posts: 2,250
IBallEngineer will become famous soon enough
IBallEngineer IBallEngineer is offline
Senior Member
IBallEngineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Covina, CA
Posts: 2,250
IBallEngineer will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas_guerra View Post
I just got home from work. The last time the truck started was about 3 am this morning. This morning (745a-8a) is when I couldn't hear the fuel pump. Now at 845pm, the truck started up no hesitations, first try. I don't know if the time of day has anything to do with it, or the duration of time that has passed since the last start up.

I'm beginning to think ignition switch could be the culprit.

Any thoughts?
Why?

There are only 3 reasons why an engine won't run. Fuel, spark, and compression. Check the easiest of these first, for me that is spark, then fuel, then compression.
__________________
1989 FJ62 5.3 Chevy, FZJ80 Axles, 4.88's with ARB.
Spring over leafs. Home made everything!
2000 2wd runner, 4 cylinders, yes it IS slow, and someday it will crawl. OR NOT! Wife fodder now.
1999 4WD SR5 Desert Dune 3.4
IBallEngineer is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 08-06-2015, 10:35 PM #7
thomas_guerra thomas_guerra is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: san antonio,tx
Posts: 8
thomas_guerra is on a distinguished road
thomas_guerra thomas_guerra is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: san antonio,tx
Posts: 8
thomas_guerra is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBallEngineer View Post
Why?

There are only 3 reasons why an engine won't run. Fuel, spark, and compression. Check the easiest of these first, for me that is spark, then fuel, then compression.
Right, i understand the basics of it. But i was thinking the switch is sending intermittent signals for the fuel.

I see the tach move, but i do have new plugs that i don't necessarily want to possibly foul out.

This morning I could not hear the fuel pump prime or purge out fuel as i was trying to start it. Most times I can.

Granted I haven't tested/replaced the maf, but once started it runs as it should.
thomas_guerra is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 08-06-2015, 11:10 PM #8
IBallEngineer's Avatar
IBallEngineer IBallEngineer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Covina, CA
Posts: 2,250
IBallEngineer will become famous soon enough
IBallEngineer IBallEngineer is offline
Senior Member
IBallEngineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Covina, CA
Posts: 2,250
IBallEngineer will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas_guerra View Post
Right, i understand the basics of it. But i was thinking the switch is sending intermittent signals for the fuel.

I see the tach move, but i do have new plugs that i don't necessarily want to possibly foul out.

This morning I could not hear the fuel pump prime or purge out fuel as i was trying to start it. Most times I can.

Granted I haven't tested/replaced the maf, but once started it runs as it should.
My point is this.

Even if you have no spark, the ignitions switch is only one of MANY potential failures. Why not test the fuel pump, that is easy!

__________________
1989 FJ62 5.3 Chevy, FZJ80 Axles, 4.88's with ARB.
Spring over leafs. Home made everything!
2000 2wd runner, 4 cylinders, yes it IS slow, and someday it will crawl. OR NOT! Wife fodder now.
1999 4WD SR5 Desert Dune 3.4
IBallEngineer is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 08-06-2015, 11:38 PM #9
thomas_guerra thomas_guerra is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: san antonio,tx
Posts: 8
thomas_guerra is on a distinguished road
thomas_guerra thomas_guerra is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: san antonio,tx
Posts: 8
thomas_guerra is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBallEngineer View Post

Why not test the fuel pump, that is easy!

Other than my initial question of jumping the wiring, what is the best method to test it?
thomas_guerra is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 08-07-2015, 02:34 AM #10
A.Wilson013's Avatar
A.Wilson013 A.Wilson013 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,527
Real Name: Alex
A.Wilson013 will become famous soon enough
MY GARAGE
A.Wilson013 A.Wilson013 is offline
Senior Member
A.Wilson013's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,527
Real Name: Alex
A.Wilson013 will become famous soon enough
MY GARAGE
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas_guerra View Post
Other than my initial question of jumping the wiring, what is the best method to test it?
Well, depends what part of it you want to test. I'd start with the easy part, measuring the resistance at the pump. If that's within spec I'd start thinking about checking fuel pressure at the rail...

__________________
2006 Lexus GX 470 Sport- RR Diff Lock, Metal Tech Sliders, RCI Aluminum Skids, Front Runner Slimline II Rack, SCS F5s, 255/80R17 ST Maxx , OME BP-51s, Dirt King UCAs, Metal Tech RR Lower Links
2016 Lexus IS300 F Sport- F-Sport Air Filter RR Racing tuner

A.Wilson013 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 08-07-2015, 09:38 AM #11
IBallEngineer's Avatar
IBallEngineer IBallEngineer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Covina, CA
Posts: 2,250
IBallEngineer will become famous soon enough
IBallEngineer IBallEngineer is offline
Senior Member
IBallEngineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Covina, CA
Posts: 2,250
IBallEngineer will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Wilson013 View Post
Well, depends what part of it you want to test. I'd start with the easy part, measuring the resistance at the pump. If that's within spec I'd start thinking about checking fuel pressure at the rail...

What he said!
__________________
1989 FJ62 5.3 Chevy, FZJ80 Axles, 4.88's with ARB.
Spring over leafs. Home made everything!
2000 2wd runner, 4 cylinders, yes it IS slow, and someday it will crawl. OR NOT! Wife fodder now.
1999 4WD SR5 Desert Dune 3.4
IBallEngineer is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 08-18-2015, 04:48 PM #12
thomas_guerra thomas_guerra is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: san antonio,tx
Posts: 8
thomas_guerra is on a distinguished road
thomas_guerra thomas_guerra is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: san antonio,tx
Posts: 8
thomas_guerra is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Wilson013 View Post
Well, depends what part of it you want to test. I'd start with the easy part, measuring the resistance at the pump. If that's within spec I'd start thinking about checking fuel pressure at the rail...



So I measured resistance, but have a couple of questions. What increments is used to measure this? and what would the value be in 100 degree weather?

I am using the smallest increment (20), and am getting a reading of 2.3 ohms in 100 degree weather. Oddly enough, today it started like a champ. Even though it is still having this weird starting problem.
thomas_guerra is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 08-18-2015, 06:07 PM #13
JRZEE2000TR4LTD's Avatar
JRZEE2000TR4LTD JRZEE2000TR4LTD is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: New Jersey
Age: 52
Posts: 1,899
Real Name: John
JRZEE2000TR4LTD will become famous soon enough
JRZEE2000TR4LTD JRZEE2000TR4LTD is offline
Senior Member
JRZEE2000TR4LTD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: New Jersey
Age: 52
Posts: 1,899
Real Name: John
JRZEE2000TR4LTD will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas_guerra View Post
So I measured resistance, but have a couple of questions. What increments is used to measure this? and what would the value be in 100 degree weather?

I am using the smallest increment (20), and am getting a reading of 2.3 ohms in 100 degree weather. Oddly enough, today it started like a champ. Even though it is still having this weird starting problem.
Touch your test leads together. What are you reading then?
__________________
SILVER 2000 4runner Limited TOTALED
WHITE/SILVER 1999 4runner Limited l Rear Locker l Tundra/890 coils | 5100 Bilsteins all around | Sonoran Steel Bumpstops l 199 mm Tundra brake upgrade | SCS Matte Gray Ray10 Rims | 275 70 17 BFG KO2 tires | LR UCAs | EIMKEITH panhard brackets | LED interior upgrade l Rear LED tailights l Pioneer AVH-X5700BHS Alpine Type "R" speakers NVX JAD800.4 Class D Amp Kenwood Under seat Subwoofer l Front window tint 20% l Weathertech window visors and floormats l OutGear Solutions Full Length roofrack l Morimoto 40" LED lightbar
JRZEE2000TR4LTD is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 08-18-2015, 07:56 PM #14
thomas_guerra thomas_guerra is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: san antonio,tx
Posts: 8
thomas_guerra is on a distinguished road
thomas_guerra thomas_guerra is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: san antonio,tx
Posts: 8
thomas_guerra is on a distinguished road
Leads touching is 1.3
thomas_guerra is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fuel , pump , starting problem , wiring

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Diagnosis HELP! Zachpins34 3rd gen T4Rs 15 07-23-2015 10:44 AM
Need help with diagnosis... OmahaRich 3rd gen T4Rs 1 07-03-2015 05:13 PM
I need help with diagnosis jreask 3rd gen T4Rs 6 03-18-2013 12:13 AM
Diagnosis Help RichardLee 3rd gen T4Rs 6 02-04-2010 04:08 PM
Need Help with Diagnosis tcbonline 3rd gen T4Rs 11 12-04-2009 08:27 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:52 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
***This site is an unofficial Toyota site, and is not officially endorsed, supported, authorized by or affiliated with Toyota. All company, product, or service names references in this web site are used for identification purposes only and may be trademarks of their respective owners. The Toyota name, marks, designs and logos, as well as Toyota model names, are registered trademarks of Toyota Motor Corporation***Ad Management plugin by RedTyger
 
Copyright © 2019


Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.