You are correct! I didn't realize they kept making those after the 740 was done. I'll take a solid axle 740 though to keep it simple!

Wow that brings back memories of the one my uncle had collecting dust in my garage 15 years ago! I'm not big on Corollas but I really liked the way these looked.

I'm surprised to hear you say that about the Maxima. My family had a '95 5-speed Maxima for about 10 years and we had no problems with it.

*I'm probably going to piss some people off with this post. Sorry.*

I still haven't heard a suggestion that I agree with, but I'm difficult like that ;) Lots of good cars and many favorites, but not really direct comparisons. IMO, it's gotta be reliable, versatile (but understandably not offroad-versatile), time-less design, great value, and attractive in a conservative way. The design and attractiveness are subjective though. Also, when I say "reliable", 150k-200k miles isn't cutting it. Gotta be able to go 300k-400k without major engine or transmission work, regularly.

Some of my thoughts:
Acura Vigor - conservative design, but kinda special
Acura Legend - This might get my vote.
1999-2000 Civic Si - a little lacking in the luxury amenities, but cool car and great value for something a little special
Acura ITR - another special car, but lacking in luxury
late '90s BMW 540 6-speed - I suspect it falls short in long-term reliability
early '00s Sentra SE-R - This might get my vote.
late '90s Maxima - with a 5-speed, I thought this was a good option but still falls short on reliability

Agree? Disagree?

Civic Si and Sentra are too small to be a car equivalents. The BMW V8 will run forever if you maintain it. I saw a pretty abused 740i the other day with 300k. It ran like crap, but looking at the rest of the car you would be surprised it even ran that well. I just don't feel like a mid-size front wheel drive sedan is the car equivalent of a 3rd Gen 4Runner.

My wife's 2004 Mazda 3 is very impressive for what it is. Base model, 5 speed, it has the smaller of the two engines that were available that year (1.9L, I think) and yet it has plenty of pep and character. She's the original owner and the only repairs we've ever needed were replacement of an accessory belt that blew three years ago and last year, at 10 years old, the mechanic recommended replacing shocks and struts, which we did. Damn thing still runs like new and is a very comfortable, zippy drive.

Ok. Good points and I certainly can't fault you for your thoughts

I agree with you - the Civic and Sentra are compact cars and not really equivalents.

What is out there for cars with?...
-ultra-reliable
-great value
-4 seats minimum
-mid-sized, semi-luxury
-rear-wheel drive, or AWD
-1995-2005 range
-conservative, timeless design

For the first category, I'm thinking only Honda and Toyota can be considered, but that's from my experience (first and second-hand). I know a BMW can go 300k+, but it's just not normally done, due to rising maintenance costs.

I've also got a 2003 Saturn LW200. I wouldn't say its luxurious, but it's comfortable and it handles quite well. Granted, mine's only at 140kms but I've essentially done absolutely nothing to that car except oil changes and an ignition coil (which was ~$200, but only takes 5 mins to replace) It's boring, and I've considered getting rid of it several times but it seems to stick around. I'd say it's less boring than a corolla at least.

FWD though. The "upmarket" equivalent to that is a SAAB 9-5, it's got everything the Saturn had, with a great interior- I think those were the most comfortable seats I've ever had and with the Aero package you basically get twice the power and brakes as the Saturn version. Too bad the engines were pretty finicky on maintenance.

I hope thats a joke!!!

LOL, after saying that I love these cars. I mean my mechanics shop has pretty much given up on all performance vehicles just to build trans for these beasts. The trans are POS and fail all the time. Lots of money for him.

When it comes to the older BMWs the drivetrain is typically pretty solid (with some exceptions for sure like the V8s with VANOS issues) but it's everything wrapped around it that goes wrong and nickel and dimes you to death. Window switches, window motors, wiper motors, blower motors (speaking of that I need to order one for my 135i right now!) A/C compressors, etc.etc.

I'm on my 3rd one, and I love the way they drive, but they can cost some money to keep in top shape, And that's the older ones. I won't even get started on what it costs to keep the modern direct injected turbocharged models running right.

My current one broke down and it was cheaper to BUY the 4Runner than to fix the BMW.

Yeah you forgot seat occupancy sensors, window regulators, door lock actuators, radiators, Power supply wires(from trunk mounted battery), electric seat switches, cup holders, window shades, belt moldings, headlight covers, headlight ballasts, wihdshield moldings... just a few of the personal experiences I had as an E39 owner, and as a shop owner.

Loved to drive that car, it did everything well. Glad to see it go, to my neighbor, who still owns it, but she figures she has to spend 2-3K on it every year.

This thread seems to have degenerated into "What cars have gone past 50k miles that you really like?".

I've loved many cars that I've owned in the past, but I admit that none of them have the reliability(!) and versatility and timeless design of the 4Runner.

*Edit: I forgot to mention Value.

such an awesome car, if I were to buy a car that would be the exact on I would want. SO COOOL and practical. My dream car lineup.

Well the TL and the Acura NSX and of course a 3rd gen 4runner for camping/ snowboarding. but for now the 4runner is my do all vehicle

1983-1987 Tercel 4WD wagon, manual transmission model. Underpowered at 87hp, so you had to flog it big time to get any work done, but that vehicle enjoyed its flogging like a dominatrix's client, and always came back for more.

Gas mileage wasn't so terrific given its weight and only 1500cc, but the things ran and ran and you still see a lot of them on the road.

Ugly, to be sure. A solid rear axle gave, well, the ride of a solid rear axle. The 4WD mechanism was primitive - it was an FWD car that engaged the rear drive shaft when you pulled the 4WD lever - but it never gave any problems, didn't need vacuum this and solenoid that to work. Strictly mechanical. Even the clutch was cable powered. Willy and Joe would have loved it.

The Tercel 4WD had an Extra Low gear that could only be engaged in 4WD. The ratio was about like 2nd gear in a typical transfer-case vehicle. It could do some crawling, certainly enough given its ground clearance.

The vehicle was easy to work on. Parts plentiful and priced well, largely due to the huge number of 3AC engines and drivetrain components sold worldwide. Timing belt (SOHC) simple to replace. A 2-valve engine with rocker arms and threaded adjusters.

We flogged ours up to 205k. Next owner was delighted to get it. Only failure that mandated towing was a burnt out igniter in the distributor, which Toyota warrantied even though it was long past the warranty period.

Drawbacks? Clutch replacement, despite what the FSM claimed, necessitated engine removal. The small engine didn't get the muffler hot enough on frequent short trips, so they rusted fairly regularly. And did I mention it was ugly?

The earlier BMWs I'm talking about had all gone over 150k. Not without some minor issues, but I'm certainly not talking about vehicles under 100k miles when I refer to something as "reliable". No vehicle should have issues before that.


I guess it depends on your definition of "reliable". If it's that it starts every time, and get you where you're going then those all do that.

If it's that it does all that while being otherwise completely trouble free, then those probably wouldn't qualify.

But when you take a step back and look at the 4Runner it's not without a few issues either. I've never been even remotely concerned about the ball joints breaking and a wheel falling off of anything else I've ever owned. Then we have the pink milkshake issue, which isn't exclusive to the 4Runner, or something that happens to all of them, but is pretty catastrophic when it does.

A little research and preventive maintenance goes a long way in some cases and especially with an older BMW.

As far as value goes, with the old BMWs you can snap up a car that stickered for upwards of $60k for under $10k and still in good shape.

This is still one of the best looking sports sedans ever made IMO. 6 speed manual, butter smooth V8. RWD.

Glad my family ditched the E39 instead of the E34. It's been through 3 radiators in it's life but the only electrical part needing replacement has been the auxiliary water pump.