10-01-2015, 11:19 AM
|
#16
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,074
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,074
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJM
It's an 02
|
Electronic throttle then.
How does the engine run when it isn't responding to the pedal? Is it just idling normally? No change, or very little change at all? Or is it sputtering, bucking, coughing, wheezing, in some manner straining somewhat but not making any power?
Electronic throttle means that they took a $15 cable that runs from the gas pedal to the throttle and replaced it with a $$$ electronic throttle actuator. The pedal has no mechanical connection to the throttle, it's just a hooked to an electronic rheostat that measures how far you're pushing it down. And the the ECU figures out how far it wants to open the throttle based on that and other things (like traction control, as mentioned above, if ti thinks a wheel is spinning it's not going to open it as much), and then a signal is sent to the throttle body to have a little electric motor open the throttle.
Obviously, there are a number of things that can go wrong in that whole setup, it's not as dumbly reliable as a cable is. Could be the switch, could be the little motor in the throttle body, could be the ECU thinking it shouldn't open the throttle for some reason. Complicated systems require complicated troubleshooting.
__________________
'99 Highlander 5-spd manual e-locker no-running-board
SS 3" suspension lift/1" body lift/33" tires/'Snowflake' TRD Taco wheels/231mm Tundra brakes/bumpers/armor/sliders/winch/Sherpa Matterhorn rack
Manual front hubs, NWF Eco-crawler transfer case doubler, second gas tank
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-01-2015, 01:10 PM
|
#17
|
|
Elite Member
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pocono Mountains
Posts: 7,496
|
|
Elite Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pocono Mountains
Posts: 7,496
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnMc
Electronic throttle then.
How does the engine run when it isn't responding to the pedal? Is it just idling normally? No change, or very little change at all? Or is it sputtering, bucking, coughing, wheezing, in some manner straining somewhat but not making any power?
Electronic throttle means that they took a $15 cable that runs from the gas pedal to the throttle and replaced it with a $$$ electronic throttle actuator. The pedal has no mechanical connection to the throttle, it's just a hooked to an electronic rheostat that measures how far you're pushing it down. And the the ECU figures out how far it wants to open the throttle based on that and other things (like traction control, as mentioned above, if ti thinks a wheel is spinning it's not going to open it as much), and then a signal is sent to the throttle body to have a little electric motor open the throttle.
Obviously, there are a number of things that can go wrong in that whole setup, it's not as dumbly reliable as a cable is. Could be the switch, could be the little motor in the throttle body, could be the ECU thinking it shouldn't open the throttle for some reason. Complicated systems require complicated troubleshooting.
|
Just to be clear, there IS a mechanical cable from pedal to the TB, but it is just a back-up "limp-home" function. It will only partially open the butterfly, allowing limited RPM's from the motor if the TbW goes down.
__________________
'99 4Runner SR5 5spd 3.4L V6 4WD(U.S), original '99 Talls in front, OME 906s in back, Hella fogs, Trekmaster shocks in front, Billy in back, no running boards, FIAMM horns, Alpine sound, Michelin LTX M/S2's, owned since new.
'97 HiLux SW4 5spd 4WD(Japan model bought in Brazil assembled in Argentina, very close to a 3.0 4Runner/Surf)
'71 FordWillys Jeep CJ5 (with straight six Ford Maverick 3.0 liter engine--lives in the mountains north of Sao Paulo Brazil)
My Backyard Frame Swap
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-01-2015, 06:23 PM
|
#18
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: MO
Posts: 206
Real Name: Daddy
|
|
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: MO
Posts: 206
Real Name: Daddy
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnMc
Electronic throttle then.
How does the engine run when it isn't responding to the pedal? Is it just idling normally? No change, or very little change at all? Or is it sputtering, bucking, coughing, wheezing, in some manner straining somewhat but not making any power?
Electronic throttle means that they took a $15 cable that runs from the gas pedal to the throttle and replaced it with a $$$ electronic throttle actuator. The pedal has no mechanical connection to the throttle, it's just a hooked to an electronic rheostat that measures how far you're pushing it down. And the the ECU figures out how far it wants to open the throttle based on that and other things (like traction control, as mentioned above, if ti thinks a wheel is spinning it's not going to open it as much), and then a signal is sent to the throttle body to have a little electric motor open the throttle.
Obviously, there are a number of things that can go wrong in that whole setup, it's not as dumbly reliable as a cable is. Could be the switch, could be the little motor in the throttle body, could be the ECU thinking it shouldn't open the throttle for some reason. Complicated systems require complicated troubleshooting.
|
Everything's normal except the response to the throttle. RPMs are at normal idling level, all pistons firing smoothly, no strange noise, just no get up and go.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-01-2015, 11:21 PM
|
#19
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: MO
Posts: 206
Real Name: Daddy
|
|
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: MO
Posts: 206
Real Name: Daddy
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by lasieoife
Lame bullshit
|
Take the spam elsewhere
Last edited by TJM; 10-02-2015 at 09:10 AM.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-02-2015, 01:47 AM
|
#20
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 912
|
|
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 912
|
clogged fuel filter, clogged air filter, bad spark plugs/wires, low fuel pressure, all of this won't cause the only symptom you are describing.
You clearly have a problem related to the fly-by-wire throttle system. If the throttle plate WAS opening, and the vehicle would not get-up-and-go, you would get a LOT of jerkiness and maybe a stalled engine due to the bad mixture. You didn't mention any jerkiness when the problem occurs.
Instead of hitting everywhere blind, you could get a 150$ OBD2 scanner, that can read real-time data (or even better, a scangauge II), and plug it when you are driving, when the symptoms occurs, look at the ''throttle %'' signal and play with the gas peddle. If nothing happens on the scanner, then it's the throttle plate not opening, then you have your problem pinpointed. Just don't forget that this signal % value is also related to the TPS sensor in your diagnostic.
By your brief description, it is 90% sure that your throttle plate is not opening past idle.
__________________
1998 4runner SR5
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-03-2015, 06:17 PM
|
#21
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: MO
Posts: 206
Real Name: Daddy
|
|
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: MO
Posts: 206
Real Name: Daddy
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by diverscale
clogged fuel filter, clogged air filter, bad spark plugs/wires, low fuel pressure, all of this won't cause the only symptom you are describing.
You clearly have a problem related to the fly-by-wire throttle system. If the throttle plate WAS opening, and the vehicle would not get-up-and-go, you would get a LOT of jerkiness and maybe a stalled engine due to the bad mixture. You didn't mention any jerkiness when the problem occurs.
Instead of hitting everywhere blind, you could get a 150$ OBD2 scanner, that can read real-time data (or even better, a scangauge II), and plug it when you are driving, when the symptoms occurs, look at the ''throttle %'' signal and play with the gas peddle. If nothing happens on the scanner, then it's the throttle plate not opening, then you have your problem pinpointed. Just don't forget that this signal % value is also related to the TPS sensor in your diagnostic.
By your brief description, it is 90% sure that your throttle plate is not opening past idle.
|
Since the signs point that direction already, let's assume that it is the throttle plate not opening and you have nailed it. What's the fix?
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-04-2015, 04:09 PM
|
#22
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 912
|
|
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 912
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJM
Since the signs point that direction already, let's assume that it is the throttle plate not opening and you have nailed it. What's the fix?
|
I am not an expert here, just some guy that do his own maintenance and had his share of strange repairs/rebuilds on multiple cars.
But I would start by the easiest. Since the motor seems to open the plate most of the time, The throttle itself, I would not think would be bad, or it would never open. I would firstly look at the device sending the throttle input by your gas peddle, its wires and its connections. Then I would look at the connections/wires at the throttle body. Then look over the same things around the TPS sensor.
As I don't know this fly-by-wire system, I would also try to disconnect the TPS sensor, and start the truck, and see of you can rev-up with it disconnected or not (you will get a check engine and that is normal). IF you can rev-up (pushing the gas peddle) with it disconnected, I would assume the TPS not to be the problem here. If you disconnect the TPS, and the engine do not rev-up, I would strongly suspect the TPS sensor and its component wiring.
This looks like an intermittent electrical problem to me more than a bad throttle body. Electrical problems require patience, and lot of testing with a volt-meter, and I also sometimes use a spare battery, and wires, to connect hot 12volt.
__________________
1998 4runner SR5
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-21-2015, 09:30 PM
|
#23
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2015
Location: va
Posts: 50
|
|
Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: va
Posts: 50
|
just wondering if you ever got it figured out. I just bought a 99 about 3 months ago and it is kind of doing the same thing. replaced the air filter, cleaned maf, cleaned throttle body, replaced plugs and wires. I am going to replace the fuel filter this weekend. kind of like a gremlin in the runner. lol. it just randomly happens. I have got mine to sputter a little when it is doing it. usually happens when I first take off after starting. if I get mine figured out, I will post up.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
11-01-2015, 01:03 PM
|
#24
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: MO
Posts: 206
Real Name: Daddy
|
|
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: MO
Posts: 206
Real Name: Daddy
|
Well so far I've changed the engine oil, transmission oil, spark plugs and wires. Still happening, and I'm thinking it's probably the TPS. We will be testing that this week to see if it needs to go. After that it'll be the fuel filter, and hopefully I won't have to get to the fuel pump.
The lag seems to come every 4-5 miles of city driving, and always from either a dead stop or a slow roll. Hope to have this resolved soon.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
11-01-2015, 01:33 PM
|
#25
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,208
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,208
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJM
Well so far I've changed the engine oil, transmission oil, spark plugs and wires. Still happening, and I'm thinking it's probably the TPS. We will be testing that this week to see if it needs to go. After that it'll be the fuel filter, and hopefully I won't have to get to the fuel pump.
The lag seems to come every 4-5 miles of city driving, and always from either a dead stop or a slow roll. Hope to have this resolved soon.
|
For the price of a TPS sensor, for me it would be a slam dunk.........if you do, get the OEM.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
11-01-2015, 05:41 PM
|
#26
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: MO
Posts: 206
Real Name: Daddy
|
|
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: MO
Posts: 206
Real Name: Daddy
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorInc
For the price of a TPS sensor, for me it would be a slam dunk.........if you do, get the OEM.
|
That's definitely the plan, hopefully that will resolve the issue. It's my next step. OEM is close to $60 while after market is around $30. I'll go with OEM.
If that doesn't work though, it'll be back to the drawing board.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
08-13-2019, 01:30 PM
|
#27
|
Junior Member
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Texas
Posts: 1
|
|
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Texas
Posts: 1
|
Any update on the fix? I'm having the same issue now and hooked up realtime monitor of the tps and its jumping from actual position % to idle, then it will jump back without doing anything. It seems to do it more when I'm the vehicle was just starting to go.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
08-13-2019, 06:53 PM
|
#28
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Acheron (LV-426)
Posts: 55
Real Name: Jeff
|
|
Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Acheron (LV-426)
Posts: 55
Real Name: Jeff
|
2002_4Runner_SM_pg960.JPG - Google Drive
You didn't say if you were getting any error codes or not, but regardless you can try these TB related inspections with a multi-meter. They may help point you to whether this is a TPS, TB Control Motor, or Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor issue. Also, as others have stated since you have a 2002 you won't be able to just replace the TPS as in a 96-00. The p/n for the 96-00 TPS is 89452350 20 whereas the p/n for the TPS on an 01-02 is 89452350 30 which is NOT sold separately from the TB. Used TBs for 01-02 run anywhere from $225ish - $400 where new ones are close to $700 (p/n 2203062020).....so that sucks if it turns out to be the TB or TPS.
I have also heard that in some instances the issue turned out to be a short in the in the wiring between the TB/TPS and the ECU... I can't imagine what a pain the butt that would be to #1 diagnose for certain and #2 fix.
Hope some of this helps.
__________________
2001 4Runner SR5 4x4, V6 Auto, ME Silver|2nd Owner|5 Stars with 265/75/R16 Falken Wildpeak AT3Ws
4.88s w/ front and rear ARB lockers|Shrockworks front bumper, rear bumper with swing out, and rock sliders|Tundra TRD Pro springs and Bilstein 5100s|OME 890 springs and Bilstein 5100s|SS Fully Adjustable Trac/PanHard Bar|SS Diff drop|TBU – 13WL calipers w/ Stoptech slotted rotors|Prinsu full length roof rack|Smittybuilt X20 winch|ARB CKMA12 compressor
Last edited by prcGTI; 08-13-2019 at 06:57 PM.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
08-13-2019, 07:57 PM
|
#29
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Southern California (please don't hold it against me)
Posts: 417
Real Name: michael
|
|
Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Southern California (please don't hold it against me)
Posts: 417
Real Name: michael
|
look back on some older threads there is a replacement part # for 85 bucks he said it worked a 01 or 02. Good luck.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-15-2019, 05:24 AM
|
#30
|
Junior Member
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2
|
|
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2
|
Same issue 2016
I am having the same issue with my 2016 4Runner limited. After idling, usually for a few minutes - the engine will remain on but the check engine light will come on and the the throttle will become unresponsive. I have taken to dealer 3 times now. First time they cleaned the throttle, second time they replaced the battery, 3rd visit is in progress. I am just under 36k mileage and am worried I will get another “fix” resulting in same issue. Problem is dangerous as has occurred at stop signs and in traffic while stopped. Any ideas ?
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Rate This Thread |
Linear Mode
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is On
|
|
|
|