[shiftmx]

Originally Posted by Taylor20

COB's 4Runner Timeline (Pic Heavy)

Best source for your adventure.

Thanks for the link. While a great mechanical source, it doesn't answer any questions about the electrical side of things. I have a '01 and it seems the ECU/electrical is different than previous years. When I search for parts on car-part.com, I can only get transmissions from 01-02 4runners, so I'm thinking I might have a problem if I try to get a J shift TC from a different year.

[TheDurk]

Originally Posted by shiftmx

Reviving my old thread.

I'm in a good position to be able to do this and it looks like using Tacoma manual hubs would be the best way to do this and retain my factory 2wd ECU. So just to be clear, using a J-shifter TC and Tacoma manual hubs would not need any additional wiring...am I correct on this?

Correct. Obviously, you will have no dash light, like all manual hub vehicles that I have ever seen.

[phattyduck]

Originally Posted by shiftmx

Reviving my old thread.

I'm in a good position to be able to do this and it looks like using Tacoma manual hubs would be the best way to do this and retain my factory 2wd ECU. So just to be clear, using a J-shifter TC and Tacoma manual hubs would not need any additional wiring...am I correct on this?

If you want to lock the ADD in place (or get a non-ADD diff tube/stub axle), you can get away without any wiring. Otherwise, wiring the ADD to engage when in 4WD is pretty simple...

There are supposedly some shift logic changes for when you are in 4LO, but otherwise, a 2WD would run a 4WD transmission just fine. There are also some differences in the ABS/Traction control systems for 4WD's that might be of issue on the 01/02's.

-Charlie

[shiftmx]

Originally Posted by phattyduck

There are also some differences in the ABS/Traction control systems for 4WD's that might be of issue on the 01/02's.

-Charlie

This is the part that worries me. Every conversion I have seen was for a 2000 or older. I have a feeling that wherever changes they made in 01-02 are really going to mess this up. My only chance may be to use the 4wd system from the same years, but I was hoping not to have to change wiring harnesses.

[phattyduck]

Originally Posted by shiftmx

This is the part that worries me. Every conversion I have seen was for a 2000 or older. I have a feeling that wherever changes they made in 01-02 are really going to mess this up. My only chance may be to use the 4wd system from the same years, but I was hoping not to have to change wiring harnesses.

Check under the dash for plugs for the 4WD computer, etc. You may be pleasantly surprised. My 2WD has the same wiring harness under the dash an SR5 4WD (rear locker plug, ADD plug, etc.).

01/02's had electronically actuated ADD systems (instead of the earlier vacuum system), and all of them are multi-mode.

Your best bet here if you are really serious about doing the 4WD swap and keeping your 4Runner is to find a rolled/crashed 01/02 4WD and start swapping parts over!

-Charlie

[pavelvoivoda]

Hey

The two multimode tcases are: the older is J-shift multimode with vacuum ADD, the newer one is an i-shift multimode with electrical ADD.

Your best and easiest way to go about this swap, is to install the simple J-shift tcase. Not either of the multi-mode J-shift or i-shift tcases. It is the earliest of the three. It is purely mechanical and can be installed with no need for electronics.

The locking hubs I think are obsolete unless you are chasing fuel economy of about a 2more miles per gallon, as all they would do is make the two front drive axles and front drive shaft not receive any rotation from the engine.

The idea of an ADD is to remove the inconvenience of going out of the cab and manually locking the front hubs.

The vacuum ADDs can be modified to be into engaged position and left that way. Thats all.

The whole engagement and disengagement of the front wheels will be happening in the Tcase. I know this method works, as before I installed the i-shift multimode tcase in mine, it had the regular j-shift non-multimode tcase and NO front diff ADD, without any vacuum switching valves.

It had one dash light and it engages instantly with no delay, unlike the multimode i have now...which engages when all parts align, which usually takes a second or two, but had rare occasions where it takes like 2 miles down the road!

I can send you pics on Monday of what the front diff looks like, and also here is a link that you can use to gather info on all parts that are involved in any of the setup that you would like to try. You should be able to see the diagrams on this website, unlike ToyoDIY which only certain regions of the world can.
Just select USA market and then 4Runner 1995/11-2002/08 and then the configuration you want. The '5' as in RZN185 frame code indicates it is a 4WD configuration.
The electric ADDs (i-shift) are from 2001 end of year till 2002. So anything before that you will find the vacuum operated tcases, be it multi or non multi mode (both j-shift) The electrical category contains all the info to find out what controls what.

http://toyotamarket.ru/

Hope I helped a bit
Pavel

[shiftmx]

Originally Posted by pavelvoivoda

Hey

The two multimode tcases are: the older is J-shift multimode with vacuum ADD, the newer one is an i-shift multimode with electrical ADD.

Your best and easiest way to go about this swap, is to install the simple J-shift tcase. Not either of the multi-mode J-shift or i-shift tcases. It is the earliest of the three. It is purely mechanical and can be installed with no need for electronics.

The locking hubs I think are obsolete unless you are chasing fuel economy of about a 2more miles per gallon, as all they would do is make the two front drive axles and front drive shaft not receive any rotation from the engine.

The idea of an ADD is to remove the inconvenience of going out of the cab and manually locking the front hubs.

The vacuum ADDs can be modified to be into engaged position and left that way. Thats all.

The whole engagement and disengagement of the front wheels will be happening in the Tcase. I know this method works, as before I installed the i-shift multimode tcase in mine, it had the regular j-shift non-multimode tcase and NO front diff ADD, without any vacuum switching valves.

It had one dash light and it engages instantly with no delay, unlike the multimode i have now...which engages when all parts align, which usually takes a second or two, but had rare occasions where it takes like 2 miles down the road!

I can send you pics on Monday of what the front diff looks like, and also here is a link that you can use to gather info on all parts that are involved in any of the setup that you would like to try. You should be able to see the diagrams on this website, unlike ToyoDIY which only certain regions of the world can.
Just select USA market and then 4Runner 1995/11-2002/08 and then the configuration you want. The '5' as in RZN185 frame code indicates it is a 4WD configuration.
The electric ADDs (i-shift) are from 2001 end of year till 2002. So anything before that you will find the vacuum operated tcases, be it multi or non multi mode (both j-shift) The electrical category contains all the info to find out what controls what.

http://toyotamarket.ru/

Hope I helped a bit
Pavel

This was very helpful. I do want my 4wd setup to engage instantly and not delay.

I am confused about one part though. Are you saying to use the old J shifter with ADD diff and modify the vacuum, or to use a non ADD diff? Also, what are the implications on the 2wd ECU that I have? I am wondering if it will cause a problem when it come to low range gearing in the trans once I switch it out for a 4wd trans, or if I have to swap in a 4wd ECU.

This statement...."I know this method works, as before I installed the i-shift multimode tcase in mine, it had the regular j-shift non-multimode tcase and NO front diff ADD, without any vacuum switching valves." What was the front diff you were using if it wasn't ADD?

[phattyduck]

Originally Posted by shiftmx

I am confused about one part though. Are you saying to use the old J shifter with ADD diff and modify the vacuum, or to use a non ADD diff? Also, what are the implications on the 2wd ECU that I have? I am wondering if it will cause a problem when it come to low range gearing in the trans once I switch it out for a 4wd trans, or if I have to swap in a 4wd ECU.

I am running a 2WD engine/trans ECU on my 4WD swapped 4Runner. Its fine. The 4WD system is controlled by a separate computer (multi-mode) or relay (mechanical j-shift). The possible difference in transmission shift logic is way down on the list of priorities.

Also, waiting a second or two for a 4WD shift isn't a big deal. Even with the (manual) j-shift case, you still sometimes have to wait a second for the front diff to engage.

There is very little difference in performance between the "j-shift multi-mode" and the "i-shift multi-mode" The "J" portion of the shift (2HI/4HiU to 4HiL) just actuates a switch internally to the transfer case, just like pressing the center diff lock button on the i-shift cases.

-Charlie

[shiftmx]

Originally Posted by phattyduck

I am running a 2WD engine/trans ECU on my 4WD swapped 4Runner. Its fine. The 4WD system is controlled by a separate computer (multi-mode) or relay (mechanical j-shift). The possible difference in transmission shift logic is way down on the list of priorities.

Also, waiting a second or two for a 4WD shift isn't a big deal. Even with the (manual) j-shift case, you still sometimes have to wait a second for the front diff to engage.

There is very little difference in performance between the "j-shift multi-mode" and the "i-shift multi-mode" The "J" portion of the shift (2HI/4HiU to 4HiL) just actuates a switch internally to the transfer case, just like pressing the center diff lock button on the i-shift cases.

-Charlie

So running your swapped 4wd transmission with a 2wd trans ECU has not caused any problems or dash lights? The mechanical install stuff is not difficult for me, I'm just a noob when it comes to the electrical side of the equation (but i can do stereo stuff no problem).

[phattyduck]

Originally Posted by shiftmx

So running your swapped 4wd transmission with a 2wd trans ECU has not caused any problems or dash lights? The mechanical install stuff is not difficult for me, I'm just a noob when it comes to the electrical side of the equation (but i can do stereo stuff no problem).

Yeah, the 2WD ECU just ignores the signals from the 4WD system. A 4WD and 2WD transmission is all the same mechanically other than the output shaft, pan/pickup/filter and transfer case adapter/transfer case. None of those differences affect shifting in any way.

-Charlie

[shiftmx]

Originally Posted by phattyduck

Yeah, the 2WD ECU just ignores the signals from the 4WD system. A 4WD and 2WD transmission is all the same mechanically other than the output shaft, pan/pickup/filter and transfer case adapter/transfer case. None of those differences affect shifting in any way.

-Charlie

Awesome! So do you think it's best to get a 4wd transmission from an 01-02 just to make sure there are no issues with my current ECU and then find a 2000 or older non multi mode j shifter?

Sorry I have so many questions, I just want to make sure I'm not buying the wrong parts as I know 01-02 4runners complicate things sometimes.

[pavelvoivoda]

Originally Posted by shiftmx

This was very helpful. I do want my 4wd setup to engage instantly and not delay.

I am confused about one part though. Are you saying to use the old J shifter with ADD diff and modify the vacuum, or to use a non ADD diff? Also, what are the implications on the 2wd ECU that I have? I am wondering if it will cause a problem when it come to low range gearing in the trans once I switch it out for a 4wd trans, or if I have to swap in a 4wd ECU.

This statement...."I know this method works, as before I installed the i-shift multimode tcase in mine, it had the regular j-shift non-multimode tcase and NO front diff ADD, without any vacuum switching valves." What was the front diff you were using if it wasn't ADD?

Ok, so...
I recommend you use the old J-shifter, as it has no controller, but just one sensor that turns on the dash light that it is in 4x4. You can also use the multimodes - the systems can work independent of the engine control, but it depends on your vehicle setup.

But remember that this jshifter tcase is only for off road and not to be used at highway speeds. The multimodes are for that.

One thing to add to fix the confusion, is that my 4Runner is a ex UN truck and is built with minimum electronics. It has a front diff without an ADD. I dont think you can find this type of diff in the US. Not at least from a 4Runner. Members here can confirm it tho. Maybe from a different vehicle. not sure.

The vacuum or electric ADDs are not required to exist in the vehicle for it to work properly, as mine used to not have one, and it still worked with the regular old J-shifter. In the US market the ADDs, I believe, are installed to make the 4Runners a bit more economical, as you would have a few parts less that will receive rotation from the engine which would require additional energy to be rotated.(when in 2WD).

In my case, when my truck was with the old style J-shifter, even when I was not in 4x4, the whole front drive-train had to spin and add resistance to acceleration. If you add a front ADD, the front driveshaft will not be rotated by the engine as disengagement happens in the front diff and in the tcase. If you add also front driveaxle hubs to the wheels, you would eliminate the drive axles from spinning also and, when in 2WD, the truck might actually become a bit more economical, as the engine will not rotate them. (they would spin a bit because of the oils in the diffs and tcase, but it will be inertial.

But still, I had once the front ADD motor fill up with water and rust, as the breather hose got disconnected, and stopped working(because I forgot to connected ), thus not having 4x4 when I needed it. It is prone to failure when neglected.

So, if you are not chasing economy, (which isn't all that much) the easiest method to make the truck 4x4, is to simply install a front diff with ADD(electric one because it is easier to leave it forever engaged) and never connect it to anything. The disengagement will happen only in the tcase.

If you like to have the multimode, install the i-shift multi mode tcase, as you can make the whole system work and drive safer at highway speeds without worrying that you might loose control (it is safer and more versatile). But it is a lot more work - both mechanical and major wiring and it depends on your vehicle configuration. Not impossible tho, as my 4Runner now has the i-shifter and is uncomparable to the old style j-shifter road handling. I prefer it over the old style. Just to note: the i-shifter is not anymore capable offroad than the old j-shifter tcase. It only outperforms the old style on the highway and when slippery, and that's its major advantage over the old style.

Just remember to observe gear ratios in the diffs when you buy diffs, as the 2wd 4Runners usually have a faster rear diffs... with FGRs like 3.9, or faster - 3.7. There is no 3.7 front diff. Not that I know of. So if you decide to go and make 4x4, you have to swap out the rear diff with a slower FGR. Even if a 3.7 front diff exist, it is not great for offroading as it is too fast. I have 3.9 and is noticeable when softcore rock-climbing...

On mine, I didn't have to change the rear diff, as front diffs with ADDs with FGR 3.9 exist on Tacomas. I did change it tho with a 3.9 rear locker diff from a Tacoma, thanks to my dad who discovered it. And now I have the full setup. The current system is not as reliable as when I had a purely mechanical 4Runner drivetrain, but I know the system in and out and I can diagnose and fix it in a matter of minutes during offroading.

This is the prize you get when you build it yourself.

Here is the link to tcases bible! - T-case Differences (all years of 3rd gens).. transfer case, AWD, multi-mode

Also, if you want me to make a better recommendation, please let me know your truck's configuration - engine, transmission, year, catalog code (it should start with VZN185-..., or RZN185-.... then a 5letter code after that. Then I can tell you what combinations of 4x4 you can make on it and which is harder or easier.

Hope this helps you more...
I am in the plan of doing the same thing on one 2wd 4Runner here too...

[Venka93]

Did you ever end up finishing the swap? Curious what you ended up doing for those transfer case crossmember horns. I believe they are in a different spot in the 4wd


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[shiftmx]

Originally Posted by pavelvoivoda

Ok, so...
I recommend you use the old J-shifter, as it has no controller, but just one sensor that turns on the dash light that it is in 4x4. You can also use the multimodes - the systems can work independent of the engine control, but it depends on your vehicle setup.

But remember that this jshifter tcase is only for off road and not to be used at highway speeds. The multimodes are for that.

One thing to add to fix the confusion, is that my 4Runner is a ex UN truck and is built with minimum electronics. It has a front diff without an ADD. I dont think you can find this type of diff in the US. Not at least from a 4Runner. Members here can confirm it tho. Maybe from a different vehicle. not sure.

The vacuum or electric ADDs are not required to exist in the vehicle for it to work properly, as mine used to not have one, and it still worked with the regular old J-shifter. In the US market the ADDs, I believe, are installed to make the 4Runners a bit more economical, as you would have a few parts less that will receive rotation from the engine which would require additional energy to be rotated.(when in 2WD).

In my case, when my truck was with the old style J-shifter, even when I was not in 4x4, the whole front drive-train had to spin and add resistance to acceleration. If you add a front ADD, the front driveshaft will not be rotated by the engine as disengagement happens in the front diff and in the tcase. If you add also front driveaxle hubs to the wheels, you would eliminate the drive axles from spinning also and, when in 2WD, the truck might actually become a bit more economical, as the engine will not rotate them. (they would spin a bit because of the oils in the diffs and tcase, but it will be inertial.

But still, I had once the front ADD motor fill up with water and rust, as the breather hose got disconnected, and stopped working(because I forgot to connected ), thus not having 4x4 when I needed it. It is prone to failure when neglected.

So, if you are not chasing economy, (which isn't all that much) the easiest method to make the truck 4x4, is to simply install a front diff with ADD(electric one because it is easier to leave it forever engaged) and never connect it to anything. The disengagement will happen only in the tcase.

If you like to have the multimode, install the i-shift multi mode tcase, as you can make the whole system work and drive safer at highway speeds without worrying that you might loose control (it is safer and more versatile). But it is a lot more work - both mechanical and major wiring and it depends on your vehicle configuration. Not impossible tho, as my 4Runner now has the i-shifter and is uncomparable to the old style j-shifter road handling. I prefer it over the old style. Just to note: the i-shifter is not anymore capable offroad than the old j-shifter tcase. It only outperforms the old style on the highway and when slippery, and that's its major advantage over the old style.

Just remember to observe gear ratios in the diffs when you buy diffs, as the 2wd 4Runners usually have a faster rear diffs... with FGRs like 3.9, or faster - 3.7. There is no 3.7 front diff. Not that I know of. So if you decide to go and make 4x4, you have to swap out the rear diff with a slower FGR. Even if a 3.7 front diff exist, it is not great for offroading as it is too fast. I have 3.9 and is noticeable when softcore rock-climbing...

On mine, I didn't have to change the rear diff, as front diffs with ADDs with FGR 3.9 exist on Tacomas. I did change it tho with a 3.9 rear locker diff from a Tacoma, thanks to my dad who discovered it. And now I have the full setup. The current system is not as reliable as when I had a purely mechanical 4Runner drivetrain, but I know the system in and out and I can diagnose and fix it in a matter of minutes during offroading.

This is the prize you get when you build it yourself.

Here is the link to tcases bible! - T-case Differences (all years of 3rd gens).. transfer case, AWD, multi-mode

Also, if you want me to make a better recommendation, please let me know your truck's configuration - engine, transmission, year, catalog code (it should start with VZN185-..., or RZN185-.... then a 5letter code after that. Then I can tell you what combinations of 4x4 you can make on it and which is harder or easier.

Hope this helps you more...
I am in the plan of doing the same thing on one 2wd 4Runner here too...

I have a 2001 with the V6 and auto A340E trans. Catalog code VZN180L-GKPGKA

I do not drive on snowy highways here in Texas so just having a working 4x4 when offroad is what I am looking for. Sounds like I would be ok going the easier install route of a non multi mode j shifter. Also, I would likely prefer to go with an ADD front diff that is vacuum actuated instead of electronic. I don't think running a few vacuum lines to get the diff to engage/disengage would be too difficult. I'd rather not have the front driveshaft spinning at all times.

What I'm thinking so far is the 4wd system from a 2000 or older 4runner with non multi jshift transfer case and a 4wd auto trans from a 01-02 just to play it safe with my current electronics. See any issue with this route?

[shiftmx]

Originally Posted by Venka93

Did you ever end up finishing the swap? Curious what you ended up doing for those transfer case crossmember horns. I believe they are in a different spot in the 4wd


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not yet. Just trying to compile final info for the components since mine being an 01 seems like it might be a little different but this has not been confirmed yet. You are correct, the trans cross member does have to be relocated and that should be the only fab work I have to do.