02-19-2020, 02:02 PM
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#1051
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyB66
120 watts total, 12 volts, 10 amps... Right on the cusp of what you stated above. Thinking of going with a relay, but I might experiment first to see if there is a difference, a notable one.
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The Hella diagram there shows a 16A fuse, and our horns already have a relay (their diagrams shows the OEM setup as going directly through he horn button with no relay). I wouldn't want to run 10A through a horn button... But 10A through a 15A fuse for such an intermittent application is good.
I'd say you are just fine going with the OE wiring in this case. Less wiring and complications for a non-critical system to get in the way of more important things. Simplify and add lightness, as Colin Chapman would say...
-Charlie
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02-19-2020, 02:14 PM
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#1052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thezentree
...That pic is the factory breather? I was thinking yesterday about how I need to find the breather on my front diff and make sure it's at least as high as my rear breather extension.
And yes, the elocker actuator has a separate breather. I don't know how high it goes from the factory (the junkyard cut the harness off when they pulled the axle) but it's wrapped up in the elocker harness.
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Yes, that image is the factory front diff breather on my 2000. I believe the '01 and '02 models will have two though... I might just remove the whole thing and replace the hose. I think I only have 3/8" at the time though.
Thanks for confirming that the elocker has its own breather. Maybe I'll need to remove the protective guard to see it.
Since I cut the previous 5/16" paracord too short for the knot of choice (terminal figure 8 loop), I ordered another 10' and made two two tie-downs for the Hi-Lift jack. It's very secure wedged down between the rear seat backs and wheel wells.
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2000 Limited, E-locker
Maintenance/Build Thread
Last edited by TonyB66; 02-19-2020 at 10:38 PM.
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02-19-2020, 02:30 PM
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#1053
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thezentree
That pic is the factory breather? I was thinking yesterday about how I need to find the breather on my front diff and make sure it's at least as high as my rear breather extension.
And yes, the elocker actuator has a separate breather. I don't know how high it goes from the factory (the junkyard cut the harness off when they pulled the axle) but it's wrapped up in the elocker harness.
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The '01/'02 front diffs are electrically operated, but the breather should still end up in the same location (driver's side fender well, just below the fuse box). I believe the actuator breather t's into the main breather so only one hose comes up to that visible location. If you are worried about that one, also consider the trans breather (top of trans case near the front where it meets the bellhousing) and the transfer case breather (on the shifter assembly, I think).
I'm not worried about any of them other than the rear diff breather though - I would be getting water in the cab at the same time as they get submerged...
-Charlie
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02-19-2020, 04:02 PM
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#1054
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phattyduck
The '01/'02 front diffs are electrically operated, but the breather should still end up in the same location (driver's side fender well, just below the fuse box). I believe the actuator breather t's into the main breather so only one hose comes up to that visible location. If you are worried about that one, also consider the trans breather (top of trans case near the front where it meets the bellhousing) and the transfer case breather (on the shifter assembly, I think).
I'm not worried about any of them other than the rear diff breather though - I would be getting water in the cab at the same time as they get submerged...
-Charlie
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Helpful information Charlie.
While I wouldn't want water in the cab on the 3rd gen, when I had FJ-40s, it was pretty common and no big deal. I removed the doors and tops, selling one, the other became a dog house for my Akita. When I was living and working in SF, after heavy rains, it would fill with water. I remember starting her up, with hefty bag on the soaked seat, accelerating hard for about 50 yards, cutting the wheel and jumping on the brakes and the remaining water would fly-out. Sort of reminded me of a dog shaking-off water after getting drenched, lol. Fond memories...
I read last night of an account where this front diff extension hose had cracked over time. I'll likely replace it, and in doing so, go about a foot higher.
Hey, I found the elocker breather line. I suppose I thought it was electrical earlier. The one with the coiled supportive wrap around it...
It actually goes-up fairly high, where it clips here.
Removed, it looks like this.
It appears to be a hard plastic line all the way down to the unit, but not sure.
The rubber hose on the outside looks comparable to what's used for wiper fluid.
It does look to be about 1/8" ID. I'll look for the aforementioned tee or better yet Y-shaped barb (5/16" x 1/8" x 5/16").
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2000 Limited, E-locker
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Last edited by TonyB66; 02-19-2020 at 04:05 PM.
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02-19-2020, 04:47 PM
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#1055
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyB66
Helpful information Charlie.
While I wouldn't want water in the cab on the 3rd gen, when I had FJ-40s, it was pretty common and no big deal. I removed the doors and tops, selling one, the other became a dog house for my Akita. When I was living and working in SF, after heavy rains, it would fill with water. I remember starting her up, with hefty bag on the soaked seat, accelerating hard for about 50 yards, cutting the wheel and jumping on the brakes and the remaining water would fly-out. Sort of reminded me of a dog shaking-off water after getting drenched, lol. Fond memories...
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My tech at work drives an FJ40... his second or third (the first one bought new in '72, I think?) and I want to buy it from him every time he drives it to work. All stock, plenty of patina... He keeps the doors and hard top on it though!
-Charlie
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02-19-2020, 05:17 PM
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#1056
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phattyduck
My tech at work drives an FJ40... his second or third (the first one bought new in '72, I think?) and I want to buy it from him every time he drives it to work. All stock, plenty of patina... He keeps the doors and hard top on it though!
-Charlie
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Awesome. Down there, no need for a top, but that's me... Had a '72 also (with a 289 actually), that I totaled, and then a '75. With the aforementioned akita, as a pup. Ha, I suppose me too, lol...
Yup, I would like one again. Seriously thought about getting one. Damn expensive now. That said, getting parts is what I need to research and better understand first... I'd part with the money otherwise.
Coming on Friday:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
25' of 5/16" fuel line coming tomorrow. About 20 bucks, much less than local shops, made in USA too, apparently...
https://smile.amazon.com/Fuel-Inside...l%2C231&sr=8-3
So, I'll be extending the front diff breather about a foot (replacing the entire hose) and in the rear, joining the rear diff and locker, and extending upward to one breather; I imagine to the popular fuel fill location, but not sure. I suppose it is not good practice venting to the interior. Not sure of the composition of the gases. If just hot air, nothing toxic, I'd be inclined to run it up the rear/D-pillar. I want to remove the side panel again anyways. Thinking out loud...
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02-21-2020, 12:11 AM
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#1057
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phattyduck
The Hella diagram there shows a 16A fuse, and our horns already have a relay (their diagrams shows the OEM setup as going directly through he horn button with no relay). I wouldn't want to run 10A through a horn button... But 10A through a 15A fuse for such an intermittent application is good.
I'd say you are just fine going with the OE wiring in this case. Less wiring and complications for a non-critical system to get in the way of more important things. Simplify and add lightness, as Colin Chapman would say...
-Charlie
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Charlie, I made some time to research the factory horn wiring, I think it was for a 2002 though, so maybe not the same as my 2000. The 2002 had different horns as I recall...
There is no relay per se, but it does go through the "Body ECU", which I imagine serves that function, and what you were referring to above...
Is the factory horn wiring adequate for 10 amps though? The hot leads look rather small, and I don't believe 14 gauge.
12 Volt Wiring: Wire Gauge to Amps | Offroaders.com
The 5/16" fuel hose arrived today and I extended the front breather. I removed another skid plate and after a good 20 minutes I located it from below and found a way to access it with my hand and tools. A tight fit and I realized that while I'd be able to remove the old hose, getting-on the new one might be more difficult. It ended-up not being that bad...
With the hose off (the silver hard line).
And out...
The condition of the factory hose was ok, but it clearly has seen better days.
The new 5/16" hose fit darn near perfectly. With a little dish soap, it slid on easily. As seen here, I re-used the factory clamp.
The front diff breather now sits about 14" higher, and for now resides here.
Next, maybe tomorrow, the rear breather for the rear diff and locker...
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Last edited by TonyB66; 02-21-2020 at 01:44 PM.
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02-24-2020, 04:51 PM
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#1058
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyB66
Charlie, I made some time to research the factory horn wiring, I think it was for a 2002 though, so maybe not the same as my 2000. The 2002 had different horns as I recall...
There is no relay per se, but it does go through the "Body ECU", which I imagine serves that function, and what you were referring to above...
Is the factory horn wiring adequate for 10 amps though? The hot leads look rather small, and I don't believe 14 gauge.
12 Volt Wiring: Wire Gauge to Amps | Offroaders.com
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The body ECU in the later 4Runners likely has a relay integrated into it that does the job of the separate relay on the earlier 'Runners.
There's a big difference between adequate and ideal. There's a few things going on here - safety and performance.
From a safety perspective, it is perfectly adequate. The wire will not be catching on fire or anything. Heck, it won't even have a chance heat up with anything but the most aggressive horn use.
The real question is whether the voltage drop on the wire will be acceptable. I'm suggesting that you should try it out without the supplemental relay and see if you like the performance.
To really know what is going on, you would have to measure the voltage drop in the wiring while it is honking - that's why I mentioned that testing would be a pain! If you get a decent amount of voltage drop in the wiring, then an extra relay and beefier wire would improve performance (if you even need more performance! you may already be happy with it).
-Charlie
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02-24-2020, 11:31 PM
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#1059
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phattyduck
The body ECU in the later 4Runners likely has a relay integrated into it that does the job of the separate relay on the earlier 'Runners.
There's a big difference between adequate and ideal. There's a few things going on here - safety and performance.
From a safety perspective, it is perfectly adequate. The wire will not be catching on fire or anything. Heck, it won't even have a chance heat up with anything but the most aggressive horn use.
The real question is whether the voltage drop on the wire will be acceptable. I'm suggesting that you should try it out without the supplemental relay and see if you like the performance.
To really know what is going on, you would have to measure the voltage drop in the wiring while it is honking - that's why I mentioned that testing would be a pain! If you get a decent amount of voltage drop in the wiring, then an extra relay and beefier wire would improve performance (if you even need more performance! you may already be happy with it).
-Charlie
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Charlie, thanks for the knowledge share, broken down to safety and performance. Given the typical, short burst-like use of horns, I sensed that safety would not be an issue...
For performance, hoping to get much of the claimed 113 dB(A), I had decided to go with a relay. While I have not yet cut the stock horn wiring, it looks to be about 20 gauge. With relays on-hand and plenty wires, I got a bit done...
12 gauge from the battery. Will insert a 15A fuse later. Yellow and red wires soldered with two heat shrink tubes.
That was connected to the relay (30/red). The blue wire on the relay (87), also 12 gauge, will go to the horns, splitting into two wires, each 14 gauge.
The white wire (86) is the positive trigger and black (85) is ground, both 16 gauge...
I'm going to fab a bracket and put both horns on the driver side, not blocking airflow through the condenser and radiator.
I bent the metal tab on the relay and I found a good spot for it here (between driver headlight and battery).
Charlie, or anyone else, on the relay, is 87a basically a 12 volt pass-through (constant power), or maybe only so when 87 is not energized, in this case my horns? If so, I see a use for it...
A slight change of gears, I found a great place to secure my HT (ham radio, handheld transceiver).
That said, I'll modify the base of the seat so that the the belt clip grabs it better.
I'll trim or notch the metal so it's 1 1/16" deep (belt height) by 11/16", front to rear of 4Runner.
When I have the seat removed to do that cutting, I plan to use the factory seat power for this in order to charge the HT when it's down there.
The rear diff breather is done, but I await some clamps to finish the connection for the E-locker breather...
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2000 Limited, E-locker
Maintenance/Build Thread
Last edited by TonyB66; 02-24-2020 at 11:33 PM.
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02-25-2020, 02:01 PM
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#1060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyB66
Charlie, or anyone else, on the relay, is 87a basically a 12 volt pass-through (constant power), or maybe only so when 87 is not energized, in this case my horns? If so, I see a use for it...
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The 87a pin is connected to the 30 pin when the relay is not energized - it is the "normally closed" connection. When power is applied to the relay coil, it disconnects from 30 and will be unpowered / disconnected.
What do you want to turn off when the horn is active?
-Charlie
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02-25-2020, 02:10 PM
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#1061
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phattyduck
The 87a pin is connected to the 30 pin when the relay is not energized - it is the "normally closed" connection. When power is applied to the relay coil, it disconnects from 30 and will be unpowered / disconnected.
What do you want to turn off when the horn is active?
-Charlie
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Cool. You might remember I installed engine bay lighting a few months back.
Switched here...
Figured I can remove the hot lead to the battery and simply use 87a instead. One less connection to the battery. Ok, yes? Can't imagine a time I'be using the horn and engine bay lights at the same time...
Thanks Charlie!
EDIT/ADD: Wait, 87a is active only when 87 is active? If so, nevermind....
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Last edited by TonyB66; 02-25-2020 at 02:13 PM.
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02-25-2020, 02:42 PM
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#1062
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyB66
EDIT/ADD: Wait, 87a is active only when 87 is active? If so, nevermind....
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87a and 87 are never active at the same time. Your plan is reasonable.
It'll be extra funny when a buddy honks your horn when you are leaning into the engine bay at night. Lights off and horn on at the same time.
-Charlie
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02-25-2020, 02:45 PM
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#1063
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Need your help
Hey, Sorry to bother, Just purchased a 2000 limited and want to put bigger tires. I see you went with 285/70-17 and I want to do the same for mine but 16"
I worry about the rub or getting stuck in wheel well during articulation. what do you do to avoid this? I know there are tons of information on this forum but i cant get a straight answer from the search.
I figuring to do a 3 inch suspension lift, with 1.5" body lift. remove front and rear bumpers or cut them until I can afford new steel ones. This vehicle will be mainly for offroad use and the real onside street driving will be from my house to trail head and back.
What else do I need to do?
If you dont mind literally giving me a parts list for install to ensure clearances and then I can go from there.
Losing too much sleep and time researching and going in circles.
My appreciation in advance
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02-25-2020, 02:47 PM
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#1064
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phattyduck
87a and 87 are never active at the same time. Your plan is reasonable.
It'll be extra funny when a buddy honks your horn when you are leaning into the engine bay at night. Lights off and horn on at the same time.
-Charlie
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Too funny, I was thinking the same damn thing, and almost typed just that too!
Was too busy putting in stock purchase limit orders...
Thanks for confirming Charlie.
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02-25-2020, 04:25 PM
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#1065
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamikaze6rr
Hey, Sorry to bother, Just purchased a 2000 limited and want to put bigger tires. I see you went with 285/70-17 and I want to do the same for mine but 16"
I worry about the rub or getting stuck in wheel well during articulation. what do you do to avoid this? I know there are tons of information on this forum but i cant get a straight answer from the search.
I figuring to do a 3 inch suspension lift, with 1.5" body lift. remove front and rear bumpers or cut them until I can afford new steel ones. This vehicle will be mainly for offroad use and the real onside street driving will be from my house to trail head and back.
What else do I need to do?
If you dont mind literally giving me a parts list for install to ensure clearances and then I can go from there.
Losing too much sleep and time researching and going in circles.
My appreciation in advance
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No worries. Just saw your reply above...
First, I have not off-roaded the 3rd gen, and with that, have not experienced full articulation. That said, others certainly have, and after much reading I grew convinced that SPC adjustable upper control arms (25460) are the way to go. There's a great thread here on those, and what setting to use...
No body lift, no pounding, although I'm not averse to such. I have about a 2" suspension lift in the front, and 2.5" in the rear. Zero issues or rubbing.
Search here on SPC upper control arms and read that thread, the last few pages in particular. Hope that helps a little...
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