Home Menu

Site Navigation


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 12-08-2018, 02:04 AM #1
T4RunnerSteve's Avatar
T4RunnerSteve T4RunnerSteve is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Newtown, CT
Posts: 100
Real Name: Steve
T4RunnerSteve is on a distinguished road
T4RunnerSteve T4RunnerSteve is offline
Member
T4RunnerSteve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Newtown, CT
Posts: 100
Real Name: Steve
T4RunnerSteve is on a distinguished road
AEM FIC-6: Professional Tuner's First Attempt

Overwhelmed by the process of tuning w/ the AEM FIC-6, I decided to bring my SC'd T4R to EFI Logics in Bethel CT to have them give it a go. 90+% of their work is with the Cobb (Subaru / Porsche) world and while they have never done an AEM FIC-6, one of the shop guys has an Isuzu Trooper w/ FIC-8 and said he'd help their tuning wizard learn the ways of the piggyback. Here's what I found when I gave it a spin:

1) AFRs under boost / high RPM drop down to the 11/12s - good
2) There is a significant increase in power in the mid-RPM range - almost feels like another supercharger - good
3) Fuel trims are all over the place after a boosted run - not good

When I asked how they felt it went (when I picked it up) they said that they felt the factory ECU was fighting the tune -- that the fuel trims weren't good. I would agree. In downloading the maps (attached) I think I understand why: there is no O2 map (it's all 0s). I'm also not sure what the MAF map is doing based on the way it's set up.

If I knew the target AFRs for their work I think I could create one now and try and bring the fuel trims under control. I've noticed that when the fuel trims go gonzo after a boosted run that the AFR lingers low (12ish) and meanders back to stoich.

What do you think? I can't blame them for trying (nobody else would touch a Toyota / piggyback) but I don't think I'm where I want to be w/ the tuning.
Attached Images
AEM FIC-6: Professional Tuner's First Attempt-efi_fm-png  AEM FIC-6: Professional Tuner's First Attempt-efi_im-png  AEM FIC-6: Professional Tuner's First Attempt-efi_maf-png 
__________________
2000 Toyota 4Runner Highlander Edition - Manual, 3.5” Lift, 17” TRD Pro rims, 32s - son's future 1st vehicle
2002 Toyota 4Runner Sport Edition - TRD SC, AEM FIC-6, 3.5” Lift, 17” Sequoia rims, 33s - toy
2013 Lexus LX570 - 22” rims - wife’s truck
T4RunnerSteve is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-08-2018, 02:51 AM #2
gamefreakgc's Avatar
gamefreakgc gamefreakgc is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Citrus Heights, California
Age: 36
Posts: 7,339
Real Name: Jerod
gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future
gamefreakgc gamefreakgc is offline
Elite Member
gamefreakgc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Citrus Heights, California
Age: 36
Posts: 7,339
Real Name: Jerod
gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future
I have no experience with MAF tuning, just isn't needed unless you have a larger intake than stock. The fuel trims are probably just fine, but know that the ECU will tune it all out except for the open loop ones in high boost.

The ECU is most definitely fighting the tune, and will de-tune all but the open loop portions at Wide Open Throttle (WOT).
__________________
'98 4Runner SR5 - 4x4 JDM 5VZ-FE Supercharged - 249K miles.
326WHP 347TQ

AEM F/IC 6, 11 PSI, 3" Intake and 3" Exhaust
Jerod's Supercharged T[u]RD Build
gamefreakgc is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-08-2018, 08:11 AM #3
jgue467's Avatar
jgue467 jgue467 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,162
jgue467 is just really nice jgue467 is just really nice jgue467 is just really nice jgue467 is just really nice jgue467 is just really nice
jgue467 jgue467 is offline
Senior Member
jgue467's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,162
jgue467 is just really nice jgue467 is just really nice jgue467 is just really nice jgue467 is just really nice jgue467 is just really nice
I wonder in instances where a supercharger was installed by a dealer if they change/swap/adjust something to tweak the tuning for an SC? It would seem if Toyo designed the SC they would have taken into account any base ECU programming needing modifying for complete use of the SC. Otherwise it seems part of the HPs/torque are never achieved.
__________________
2001 Limited 4WD - 349+K - SunfireRed\Thunder Cloud; - 265/75/16 Michelin A/T2s - Fat Pat's 1.5" BL - StopTech ANGLED rotors - In series 699 trans cooler, New Yota1 transmission, All new OEM suspension front to rear.
jgue467 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-10-2018, 10:50 AM #4
Renegade_Medic's Avatar
Renegade_Medic Renegade_Medic is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Buda, TX
Posts: 520
Renegade_Medic will become famous soon enough
Renegade_Medic Renegade_Medic is offline
Member
Renegade_Medic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Buda, TX
Posts: 520
Renegade_Medic will become famous soon enough
When you say that the fuel trims are not good, what do you mean?
The trims will be all over the place, that's normal. Since the Piggyback is tricking the computer into thinking it's running lean mixture (so it will run rich) the fuel trims adjust accordingly. Do you have an AFR guage? I would rely solely on the AFR and completely ignore your fuel trims.
__________________
99 4Runner Ltd 4x4
Build Thread
Renegade_Medic is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-10-2018, 12:01 PM #5
T4RunnerSteve's Avatar
T4RunnerSteve T4RunnerSteve is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Newtown, CT
Posts: 100
Real Name: Steve
T4RunnerSteve is on a distinguished road
T4RunnerSteve T4RunnerSteve is offline
Member
T4RunnerSteve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Newtown, CT
Posts: 100
Real Name: Steve
T4RunnerSteve is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade_Medic View Post
When you say that the fuel trims are not good, what do you mean?
The trims will be all over the place, that's normal. Since the Piggyback is tricking the computer into thinking it's running lean mixture (so it will run rich) the fuel trims adjust accordingly. Do you have an AFR guage? I would rely solely on the AFR and completely ignore your fuel trims.
Basically the stock ECU is trying to get the truck back to stoich (~14.7) so when getting into boost it's no longer getting down to 11-12 -- it's trimming out fuel as the O2 sensor is tipping it off that it's running "too rich". I need an O2 map to tell the ECU it's 14.7 when it's really 11-12.

My comment about it feeling like another supercharger was added -- that is when it went into open loop - it dropped into the 10-12 range and took off.
__________________
2000 Toyota 4Runner Highlander Edition - Manual, 3.5” Lift, 17” TRD Pro rims, 32s - son's future 1st vehicle
2002 Toyota 4Runner Sport Edition - TRD SC, AEM FIC-6, 3.5” Lift, 17” Sequoia rims, 33s - toy
2013 Lexus LX570 - 22” rims - wife’s truck
T4RunnerSteve is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-10-2018, 02:48 PM #6
JayRolla's Avatar
JayRolla JayRolla is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: CO
Posts: 6,023
JayRolla will become famous soon enough JayRolla will become famous soon enough
JayRolla JayRolla is offline
Elite Member
JayRolla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: CO
Posts: 6,023
JayRolla will become famous soon enough JayRolla will become famous soon enough
What are your fuel trims sitting at? I've tuned an Apexi safc piggy back on mitsubishi's back in the day and could get fuel trims pretty close to 0 or 100.

If your on stock injectors and fuel pressure the fuel trims should be fine since the ecu will take care of that. Just make sure lo and mid fuel adjustments are not changed. Only open loop map should be adjusted.
__________________
1996 Toyota 4runner Limited - 4" Lift, 33's, AOR Bumper w/winch
1990 Eagle Talon Tsi- E316G @ 32psi E85 Tuned, 272 cams, ECMlink v3.0, 405whp - Gave back to Brother
2012 Toyota Tacoma DCSB - Stock on 32's- Wifes
2004 Cadillac CTS-V - 5.7L LS6 v8, 6-speed 400hp/400tq - My new DD
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-ge...read-pics.html

Last edited by JayRolla; 12-10-2018 at 02:50 PM.
JayRolla is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-10-2018, 11:44 PM #7
T4RunnerSteve's Avatar
T4RunnerSteve T4RunnerSteve is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Newtown, CT
Posts: 100
Real Name: Steve
T4RunnerSteve is on a distinguished road
T4RunnerSteve T4RunnerSteve is offline
Member
T4RunnerSteve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Newtown, CT
Posts: 100
Real Name: Steve
T4RunnerSteve is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayRolla View Post
What are your fuel trims sitting at? I've tuned an Apexi safc piggy back on mitsubishi's back in the day and could get fuel trims pretty close to 0 or 100.

If your on stock injectors and fuel pressure the fuel trims should be fine since the ecu will take care of that. Just make sure lo and mid fuel adjustments are not changed. Only open loop map should be adjusted.
They’re like -20, -15 ... stuff like that. Stock ECU is effectively detuning my professional tune because there is no O2 map. I am running 380cc injectors so these #s aren’t surprising.

Trying to figure out where to start with the O2 map. I suspect since my truck has a wideband O2 sensor (Vs Narrowband), the values I need are in the 0-5V range. Wouldn’t I effectively be trying to tell the truck it’s 14.7 AFR throughout the closed loop? (What am I missing here?)
__________________
2000 Toyota 4Runner Highlander Edition - Manual, 3.5” Lift, 17” TRD Pro rims, 32s - son's future 1st vehicle
2002 Toyota 4Runner Sport Edition - TRD SC, AEM FIC-6, 3.5” Lift, 17” Sequoia rims, 33s - toy
2013 Lexus LX570 - 22” rims - wife’s truck
T4RunnerSteve is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 01:49 AM #8
gamefreakgc's Avatar
gamefreakgc gamefreakgc is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Citrus Heights, California
Age: 36
Posts: 7,339
Real Name: Jerod
gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future
gamefreakgc gamefreakgc is offline
Elite Member
gamefreakgc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Citrus Heights, California
Age: 36
Posts: 7,339
Real Name: Jerod
gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future
Quote:
Originally Posted by T4RunnerSteve View Post
They’re like -20, -15 ... stuff like that. Stock ECU is effectively detuning my professional tune because there is no O2 map. I am running 380cc injectors so these #s aren’t surprising.

Trying to figure out where to start with the O2 map. I suspect since my truck has a wideband O2 sensor (Vs Narrowband), the values I need are in the 0-5V range. Wouldn’t I effectively be trying to tell the truck it’s 14.7 AFR throughout the closed loop? (What am I missing here?)
Yes, you have a Air/Fuel ratio sensor, not the narrowband like I have. Watch this video by AEM: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZNDCT9UjQQ this is exactly what you need to do. Once you've figured out the voltage input for each AFR level, simply just put in the AFR you want in each cell. Voila, perfect AFR trims in closed loop. Done.

I've found my engine responds well with 13's in low boost after say, 2 PSI up to 5 or 6, 12's up to 9 PSI, and 11.8 from there on up. Adjust for whatever boost levels you see. Don't go too rich below 3000 RPM's though, it'll bog down the engine.

There's a bunch of how-to videos put out by AEM on how to use every feature of the FIC 6. I suggest watching as many as you have time for.
__________________
'98 4Runner SR5 - 4x4 JDM 5VZ-FE Supercharged - 249K miles.
326WHP 347TQ

AEM F/IC 6, 11 PSI, 3" Intake and 3" Exhaust
Jerod's Supercharged T[u]RD Build
gamefreakgc is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 09:43 AM #9
Renegade_Medic's Avatar
Renegade_Medic Renegade_Medic is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Buda, TX
Posts: 520
Renegade_Medic will become famous soon enough
Renegade_Medic Renegade_Medic is offline
Member
Renegade_Medic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Buda, TX
Posts: 520
Renegade_Medic will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by T4RunnerSteve View Post
They’re like -20, -15 ... stuff like that. Stock ECU is effectively detuning my professional tune because there is no O2 map. I am running 380cc injectors so these #s aren’t surprising.

Trying to figure out where to start with the O2 map. I suspect since my truck has a wideband O2 sensor (Vs Narrowband), the values I need are in the 0-5V range. Wouldn’t I effectively be trying to tell the truck it’s 14.7 AFR throughout the closed loop? (What am I missing here?)
Not sure of the exact numbers, but when you want it to run rich, you'll need to trick the computer into thinking it's lean, not stoich. So you'll need it to output voltage at what would normally be something like 15.5-16:1. This will trick it into adding more fuel and thus, your fuel trims will begin to go into the + fuel range (or higher than what it was at). Mine routinely run around +10-15% when I'm in boost and it's working properly.
__________________
99 4Runner Ltd 4x4
Build Thread
Renegade_Medic is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 02:02 PM #10
gamefreakgc's Avatar
gamefreakgc gamefreakgc is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Citrus Heights, California
Age: 36
Posts: 7,339
Real Name: Jerod
gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future
gamefreakgc gamefreakgc is offline
Elite Member
gamefreakgc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Citrus Heights, California
Age: 36
Posts: 7,339
Real Name: Jerod
gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future
If you still have my number (can't remember if I gave it or not) give me a call. Much easier to explain than to type it all out lol. If not PM me and I'll get it to ya.
__________________
'98 4Runner SR5 - 4x4 JDM 5VZ-FE Supercharged - 249K miles.
326WHP 347TQ

AEM F/IC 6, 11 PSI, 3" Intake and 3" Exhaust
Jerod's Supercharged T[u]RD Build
gamefreakgc is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
J's Professional Development Tour J - S&C Coach 5th gen T4Rs 46 10-26-2021 02:03 AM
? For those with professional rust proofing Northern 4Runner 5th gen T4Rs 18 04-23-2018 11:15 PM
Ask a Dealership Service Professional. ..... CodyY Off Topic 52 01-20-2016 09:11 PM
Possible Break-in attempt? EEEliminator 5th gen T4Rs 16 12-02-2015 01:07 PM
How much should I attempt on my own? billstark Problems & Warranty Issues 3 01-12-2008 08:07 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:14 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
***This site is an unofficial Toyota site, and is not officially endorsed, supported, authorized by or affiliated with Toyota. All company, product, or service names references in this web site are used for identification purposes only and may be trademarks of their respective owners. The Toyota name, marks, designs and logos, as well as Toyota model names, are registered trademarks of Toyota Motor Corporation***Ad Management plugin by RedTyger
 
Copyright © 2020