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Old 07-07-2019, 01:25 AM #16
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Good point and I agree for the most part, but a couple things to think about for all that read this.

1) Why in the world would Toyota spend millions of dollars on R&D, etc. to allow an OEM to make the same part with the only different being a part # listed somewhere? Not exactly protecting their investment with that approach.

2) While the price difference annoys me (as well as the OP), I had little problem justifying the extra money for OE parts when I had the TB done on my LS 400. I recall it being about $400-$500 more, but was a fairly easy decision based on that extra money being amortized over 10 years and 100k miles.


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Originally Posted by NissanTechJake View Post
Let’s stick to what we actually know.

We could speculate all day long, but would love to see some actual evidence of this. It’s a little odd to think the same manufacturer creates 2 of the same seals to different standards in the manufacturing process.

Granted speculation probably has the poor guy who posted even more paranoid so he will spend 3 times the money lol.
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Old 07-07-2019, 09:23 AM #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NissanTechJake View Post
Letís stick to what we actually know.

We could speculate all day long, but would love to see some actual evidence of this. Itís a little odd to think the same manufacturer creates 2 of the same seals to different standards in the manufacturing process.
Ok, Manufacturing 101, no this isn't speculation, this is how things Actually work.

A part is designed, machines are setup to make the individual pieces of those parts, more to assemble into the "final". Despite the best efforts of all parties, raw materials have a slight variance, machines wear and start offering up parts that have slight variance in tolerances. Toyota (and other top tier buyers) will order exacting tolerances, the best that can be produced with the best of raw materials and all manufacturing tools in perfect/new condition. Parts are tested against those exacting standards, anything that doesn't meet them is discarded (though, it's more like 1 in 1,000 are tested, that range can vary depending on how much the buyer wants to spend).

It's worth understanding that Toyota may be buying 2nd tier bearing behind the military/aerospace industry... or 3rd tier. Just as Kia may be buying/installing that same bearing that Toyota passed on (with their 10 year/100k mile warranty). A lot of the additional cost comes from the additional testing done, some from being given priority to have first (or second, or third) pick. More for having to cover the different packaging/labeling costs and yet more to cover transportation and storage on Toyota's end.

The bottom line is that all of those manufactures have reject parts that are on the bleeding edge of being rejected and opt to recoup some cost by selling them rather than scrapping them. These same companies stand to lose their big contracts if their name is sullied in the selling off of extras (and there May be a clause in the contract that states the parts must meet XYZ standards). You really have no reason to fear buying fro the OEM manufacture, and the costs are lower simply because there are fewer costs associated. Sure, you're likely getting a part that's only 99% as good as a Toyota OEM, but when those same parts have an engineering margin of ~10% you're well within the realm of safety.

I've used various ebay timing belt sellers for years, running them to 90% of their rated life (so 90k miles on 100k mile recommended intervals ~ just my own personal margin of error).
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Old 07-07-2019, 09:53 AM #18
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I used an Aisin kit from Amazon on my T4R and was very happy with it. I have found that even OEM parts bought right from the dealer are not necessarily the same as what was installed on the assembly line, but they're as close as you can get. Mitsuboshi, Bando, NOK, Koyo and Aisin are definitely names you want to see on your components. That being said, I have installed hundreds, if not over a thousand timing belts over the last 30 years and have used Gates, Dayco, Continetal, Aisin, US Motor Works and a couple more I don't remember and with the exception of a few water pumps and several hydraulic tensioners (Dayco kit on Honda 3.5L V6) I've had very few problems, comebacks, or warranty work as a result of component failures.
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Old 07-07-2019, 03:12 PM #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddielasvegas View Post
Just because it's the same OEM does not mean it was made to the exact specs as Toyota's parts.

And I'd bet (but not much), that there is very small differences between Toyota parts and Asin parts for the exact same parts that look identical on the naked eye.


Eddie
Yup, and that's basically what I'm trying to verify. The eBay seller claims OEM parts, which to me would mean that they come through Toyota's distribution system. If the eBay seller is misleading folks with the 'OEM ' term and is selling good quality, but aftermarket parts, I'd just want to know exactly what I'd be getting. I know that the OE Vendors make very high quality aftermarket parts for our vehicles.

I'll apologize for veering this thread of track a bit, that wasn't my intention. I do thank NissianTechJake for posting pics of what he got in the kit, it's the 1st pics I recall anyone posting of the aircabinman kit.
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Old 07-07-2019, 06:34 PM #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndhandyotaman View Post
Yup, and that's basically what I'm trying to verify. The eBay seller claims OEM parts, which to me would mean that they come through Toyota's distribution system. If the eBay seller is misleading folks with the 'OEM ' term and is selling good quality, but aftermarket parts, I'd just want to know exactly what I'd be getting. I know that the OE Vendors make very high quality aftermarket parts for our vehicles.

I'll apologize for veering this thread of track a bit, that wasn't my intention. I do thank NissianTechJake for posting pics of what he got in the kit, it's the 1st pics I recall anyone posting of the aircabinman kit.

My kit is one of 2 different ones aircabinman sells for the same engine with slightly different prices and parts. I think one has the Toyota drive belts which are supposedly more identifiable but I canít verify that from experience. He also in his listing lists the exact brands of the parts he is sending in a list down in the description.
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Old 07-07-2019, 06:49 PM #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian. View Post
Ok, Manufacturing 101, no this isn't speculation, this is how things Actually work.

A part is designed, machines are setup to make the individual pieces of those parts, more to assemble into the "final". Despite the best efforts of all parties, raw materials have a slight variance, machines wear and start offering up parts that have slight variance in tolerances. Toyota (and other top tier buyers) will order exacting tolerances, the best that can be produced with the best of raw materials and all manufacturing tools in perfect/new condition. Parts are tested against those exacting standards, anything that doesn't meet them is discarded (though, it's more like 1 in 1,000 are tested, that range can vary depending on how much the buyer wants to spend).

It's worth understanding that Toyota may be buying 2nd tier bearing behind the military/aerospace industry... or 3rd tier. Just as Kia may be buying/installing that same bearing that Toyota passed on (with their 10 year/100k mile warranty). A lot of the additional cost comes from the additional testing done, some from being given priority to have first (or second, or third) pick. More for having to cover the different packaging/labeling costs and yet more to cover transportation and storage on Toyota's end.

The bottom line is that all of those manufactures have reject parts that are on the bleeding edge of being rejected and opt to recoup some cost by selling them rather than scrapping them. These same companies stand to lose their big contracts if their name is sullied in the selling off of extras (and there May be a clause in the contract that states the parts must meet XYZ standards). You really have no reason to fear buying fro the OEM manufacture, and the costs are lower simply because there are fewer costs associated. Sure, you're likely getting a part that's only 99% as good as a Toyota OEM, but when those same parts have an engineering margin of ~10% you're well within the realm of safety.

I've used various ebay timing belt sellers for years, running them to 90% of their rated life (so 90k miles on 100k mile recommended intervals ~ just my own personal margin of error).
Thanks for your explanation, but Iím not sure how that translates to my original point.

Do you have any data to support that different materials or tolerances are required by toyota then NOK? Or another party? If anyone understands dealer mark up itís ME. Price does not always signify better quality with all OEM parts. I almost always use OEM parts but I am NOT against buying off labeled products from the SAME manufacturers that produce our parts. I havenít had any issues recommending them in the past. Hitachi, denso, Bosch are all good examples from a electronic standpoint.

Hope that makes more sense as to my original point I was trying to get across.
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Old 07-07-2019, 09:14 PM #22
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OP:
If you can afford OEM parts from the dealer (all parts in toyota boxes) then you can drive easy 150K miles without any issues. If you buy Aisin kit or Kabinairmen's kit, stick to 100K miles. The oil seals in cabin airmen's kit is surely not oem or NOK.


Like someone said ealier in this thread Toyota spends millions of $$ for R$D and they specify their suppliers (Mainly DENSO and AISIN) to get things into their specifications.

Honda also uses DENSO alternators (My cousin had to replace the OEM alternator on his 2011 pilot at 100K miles: complete failure), while my 4Runner has 214K, 2000 LC has 237K miles, 92 Corolla 278K miles and 1990 hilux 250K miles and all got OEM alternators with new brush kits (except 4R): This tells R&D of Toyota and their quality.

Last edited by nissanh; 07-07-2019 at 09:18 PM.
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Old 07-08-2019, 11:04 AM #23
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When I did my TB/WP on my 4Runner, I initially had the *bright* idea of saving a few bucks over Airbcabinman's prices on eBay by getting a kit that said it had 'genuine OEM parts'. It repeated that several times. Got it, Jenn-you-wine Oh Ee Em parts! So I ordered them, and when I got it... all the parts were in plain white boxes with 'OEM' printed on them. As in the brand name was 'OEM'. LOL, real good one. Got me. Lol. I immediately requested a return, they refunded 100% of my money, I was just out ~12$ return shipping.

Yeah, ordered an Aircabinman kit after that, all the parts seem to be genuine, as described, top notch quality. I think I've used his kits 3 times so far (some non-4Runner V6 Toyota's in the extended family fleet), my wife's put 2 of his kits on her '96.
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Old 07-09-2019, 02:15 AM #24
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Back to the original question...aircabinman on ebay sells a kit that includes OEM parts. He also sells a kit that's not all OEM - if you're unsure, just message him and he'll point you in the right direction. The full OEM kit doesn't cost much more.

Just purchased and installed for my 02 and it's legit.
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Old 07-09-2019, 10:28 AM #25
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Thanks everyone - I found the discussion helpful. I think I'm going to go with aircabinman's OEM kit. Only other thing I'll need is the crank pully bolt right?
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Old 07-09-2019, 10:57 AM #26
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Thanks everyone - I found the discussion helpful. I think I'm going to go with aircabinman's OEM kit. Only other thing I'll need is the crank pully bolt right?
Yes, you'll want a new crank pulley bolt. I also replaced all the felt gasket material on the timing covers. I've been accused of having OCD too, so there's that.
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Old 07-09-2019, 11:01 PM #27
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Yes, you'll want a new crank pulley bolt. I also replaced all the felt gasket material on the timing covers. I've been accused of having OCD too, so there's that.
I've been accused of the same - so I'd love more info. I've never done this job - where can I get the felt gasket material you speak of?
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Old 07-09-2019, 11:35 PM #28
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I've been accused of the same - so I'd love more info. I've never done this job - where can I get the felt gasket material you speak of?
Timing Cover #1: 11328-20020
Timing Cover #2: 11329-20010
Timing Cover #3: 11319-20010

TOYOTA 4RUNNERVZN185L-GKPGKA - TOOL-ENGINE-FUEL - TIMING GEAR COVER REAR END PLATE | Japan Parts EU

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Old 07-10-2019, 07:51 AM #29
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Old 07-10-2019, 08:50 AM #30
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To the OP, I just did my timing belt this past weekend and dispite being pretty careful I somehow managed to break a tooth off the crank timing pulley that is picked up by the crankshaft position sensor. The engine would start and then die a second later. I found this thread:
engine starts, immediate stall after timing belt job

Just wanted to give you a heads up, don't do what I did .. now I'm stuck waiting for parts to arrive haha

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