07-12-2019, 12:10 PM
|
#1
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Odessa/Midland TX
Posts: 3,711
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Odessa/Midland TX
Posts: 3,711
|
To increase the AC efficiency
I don't know why Toyota didn't insulate the AC suction line between the firewall and compressor: So I did it!
Atmospheric water vapor condenses on this hose: Any condensation means for the system which is freon, a gain of energy (can also be called heat) from water vapor. This heat adds to the heat generated during the compression of freon.
One more helpful hint for home AC users: The capacitor on my home AC got blown at 4:30 PM and glad I was able to find one before 5 PM, and installed it by my self. What I've been told is to keep a spare capacitor handy. A capacitor sells online for less than $30 so keep one ready! Buy capacitor based on the micro Faraday value posted.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
07-12-2019, 12:28 PM
|
#2
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Snottsdale, AZ
Posts: 500
Real Name: Eddie
|
|
Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Snottsdale, AZ
Posts: 500
Real Name: Eddie
|
Thanks for the auto and residential HVAC info and reminder.
My former HVAC company wanted to charge me $650 to replace the capacitors (2) in our units. Said they were bad. I declined knowing they were $30 parts and had them checked by a trusted HVAC tech. No issues and just a money grab by this unscrupulous company.
Any idea what increase in efficiency adding the insulation will create?
Eddie
__________________
2001 T4R SR5 - 180k miles and counting.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
07-12-2019, 12:51 PM
|
#3
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 1,196
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 1,196
|
Looks like it will help. Also get some coil cleaner and clean your condenser
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
07-12-2019, 01:10 PM
|
#4
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: New Jersey
Age: 56
Posts: 1,963
Real Name: John
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: New Jersey
Age: 56
Posts: 1,963
Real Name: John
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by nissanh
I don't know why Toyota didn't insulate the AC suction line between the firewall and compressor: So I did it!
Atmospheric water vapor condenses on this hose: Any condensation means for the system which is freon, a gain of energy (can also be called heat) from water vapor. This heat adds to the heat generated during the compression of freon.
One more helpful hint for home AC users: The capacitor on my home AC got blown at 4:30 PM and glad I was able to find one before 5 PM, and installed it by my self. What I've been told is to keep a spare capacitor handy. A capacitor sells online for less than $30 so keep one ready! Buy capacitor based on the micro Faraday value posted.
|
Shouldn't need to insulate that line. It is the suction line post evaporator to the compressor. You want low pressure gas - vapor - in this line as that is what the compressor wants - vapor. By insulating it you may lower the temp of the gas and it may liquefy a little and make your compressor unhappy.
The unit for capacitors is farads.
Keep an eye on that compressor too. Usually when those caps go on the single-phase motors or compressors it means they they were overloaded by a restriction mechanically. Not in all cases, but I know just about every motor I replaced caps on I had to go back to and replace the entire motor. Check the start and run amps and see if it's close to the load rating.
__________________
SILVER 2000 4runner Limited TOTALED
WHITE/SILVER 1999 4runner Limited l Rear Locker l Tundra/890 coils | 5100 Bilsteins all around | Sonoran Steel Bumpstops l 199 mm Tundra brake upgrade | SCS Matte Gray Ray10 Rims | 275 70 17 BFG KO2 tires | LR UCAs | EIMKEITH panhard brackets | LED interior upgrade l Rear LED tailights l Pioneer AVH-X5700BHS Alpine Type "R" speakers NVX JAD800.4 Class D Amp Kenwood Under seat Subwoofer l Front window tint 20% l Weathertech window visors and floormats l OutGear Solutions Full Length roofrack l Morimoto 40" LED lightbar
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
07-12-2019, 01:43 PM
|
#5
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,145
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,145
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRZEE2000TR4LTD
Shouldn't need to insulate that line. ...
|
+1. Toyota is Not dumb and engineered it that way.
Now here was my thought. My a/c is beyond belief COLD as is (dirty with very little maintenance other than one item described below)! After 15 mins of cooling a closed (hours long) in central texas 105+ temps, I have to turn fan speed down, redirect "crotch" cooler vent and so forth.
It doesn't need to be more efficient.
Now here is what I think many, many folks over look in a/c maintenance, the space between the condensor and radiator. Remove the skid pan and take a good look up between the two. That is where debris, grass and such begin to block the flow of air which is what both depend on.
I'd like to clean my evaporator, I'm sure it's never been opened and has to be horribly dirty yet the SOB is beyond belief cold as it, should I bother?
Luck and enjoy those Runners.
__________________
2001 Limited 4WD - 346+K - SunfireRed\Thunder Cloud; - 265/75/16 Michelin A/T2s - Fat Pat's 1.5" BL - StopTech ANGLED rotors - In series 699 trans cooler, New Yota1 transmission, All new OEM suspension front to rear.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
07-12-2019, 01:58 PM
|
#6
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Odessa/Midland TX
Posts: 3,711
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Odessa/Midland TX
Posts: 3,711
|
Reply
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddielasvegas
Thanks for the auto and residential HVAC info and reminder.
My former HVAC company wanted to charge me $650 to replace the capacitors (2) in our units. Said they were bad. I declined knowing they were $30 parts and had them checked by a trusted HVAC tech. No issues and just a money grab by this unscrupulous company.
Any idea what increase in efficiency adding the insulation will create?
Eddie
|
I am not sure about the exact quantity: About Chemistry-Physics: AC works on Joule Thompson effect and total enthalpy (or the internal energy) at the expansion valve is constant. Narrow tube (high side) becomes a wide tube at the expansion valve and the volume change is what brings the kinetic energy down making it cooler. Based on all that, I find cooler freon going into the compressor (1) helps to cool the compressor (2) lowers the output temperature on high side.
My 92 Corolla, 2000 Land cruiser got factory insulation on the suction hose all the way from firewall to the compressor.
If you look at your home AC, the return line is covered with an insulation as well.
I do clean all the condenser/radiator fins in my vehicles and home condenser prior to every summer.
I am more into efficiency, I guess!!!
Last edited by nissanh; 07-12-2019 at 02:00 PM.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
07-12-2019, 05:12 PM
|
#7
|
|
Elite Member
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Citrus Heights, California
Age: 36
Posts: 7,330
Real Name: Jerod
|
|
Elite Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Citrus Heights, California
Age: 36
Posts: 7,330
Real Name: Jerod
|
That insulation is very close to your exhaust manifolds. Make sure they are not toching anything, not even the heat shield or it's going to be a sloppy, smelly mess on a long drive.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
07-13-2019, 03:05 AM
|
#8
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Florida
Posts: 90
|
|
Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Florida
Posts: 90
|
My system has had little to no maintenance, as far as I know, in 21 years. After 15 minutes in the Florida summer, the cabin is colder than a morgue. I have no idea how nasty the evaporator looks but the air doesn't even smell. Genius engineers were making these things.
__________________
'98 Desert Dune Limited (200K+)
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
07-13-2019, 06:34 AM
|
#9
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,145
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,145
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamefreakgc
That insulation is very close to your exhaust manifolds. Make sure they are not toching anything, not even the heat shield or it's going to be a sloppy, smelly mess on a long drive.
|
Or worse, a fire, yikes! Perhaps a heat shield in more in order??
__________________
2001 Limited 4WD - 346+K - SunfireRed\Thunder Cloud; - 265/75/16 Michelin A/T2s - Fat Pat's 1.5" BL - StopTech ANGLED rotors - In series 699 trans cooler, New Yota1 transmission, All new OEM suspension front to rear.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
07-13-2019, 07:59 AM
|
#10
|
Elite Member
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Stouchsburg PA
Posts: 5,304
|
|
Elite Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Stouchsburg PA
Posts: 5,304
|
I vacuum my system and charged it after the engine swap. Charged it and my temp gun showed 28 to 35f on the center vent outlet. I am pretty sure our system has an orifice tube, which as the low pressure low temperature liquid from the condenser is forced through the hole it starts boiling off which absorbs heat and makes the cold air. Sometimes that length of tubing is designed to be an exact length to catch the “vapor” just as it enters the EVAP. Insulating it would keep it in liquid form longer and possibly lower the efficiency and heat absorption.
Just my 3 cents.....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
07-13-2019, 08:34 AM
|
#11
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: New Jersey
Age: 56
Posts: 1,963
Real Name: John
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: New Jersey
Age: 56
Posts: 1,963
Real Name: John
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by 19963.4lsr5
I vacuum my system and charged it after the engine swap. Charged it and my temp gun showed 28 to 35f on the center vent outlet. I am pretty sure our system has an orifice tube, which as the low pressure low temperature liquid from the condenser is forced through the hole it starts boiling off which absorbs heat and makes the cold air. Sometimes that length of tubing is designed to be an exact length to catch the “vapor” just as it enters the EVAP. Insulating it would keep it in liquid form longer and possibly lower the efficiency and heat absorption.
Just my 3 cents.....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
|
These systems use an expansion valve not an orifice tube.
High pressure liquid is what is what is fed through the expansion valve making it low pressure liquid allowing the refrigerant to be in it's coldest state and absorb the most heat as it passes through the evaporator
The line he insulated is the line AFTER the evaporator to the suction side of the compressor. Probably not going to hurt anything but IMHO really not going to help anything either as cold and efficient as these systems seem to be.
__________________
SILVER 2000 4runner Limited TOTALED
WHITE/SILVER 1999 4runner Limited l Rear Locker l Tundra/890 coils | 5100 Bilsteins all around | Sonoran Steel Bumpstops l 199 mm Tundra brake upgrade | SCS Matte Gray Ray10 Rims | 275 70 17 BFG KO2 tires | LR UCAs | EIMKEITH panhard brackets | LED interior upgrade l Rear LED tailights l Pioneer AVH-X5700BHS Alpine Type "R" speakers NVX JAD800.4 Class D Amp Kenwood Under seat Subwoofer l Front window tint 20% l Weathertech window visors and floormats l OutGear Solutions Full Length roofrack l Morimoto 40" LED lightbar
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
07-13-2019, 12:50 PM
|
#12
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: MS
Posts: 2,488
Real Name: Mark
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: MS
Posts: 2,488
Real Name: Mark
|
Interesting topic, I'm in the group with design is a good one though experimenting is cool if hazards are not put into it.
Maint of system has been mentioned.
Easy way to get to Evap for cleaning is to remove the fan speed resistor module, gives you about a 2" x 4" opening to work with.
I learned the expensive way on this one, the drier 320k mi never changed it. Desiccant cartridge inside drier broke into zillion pieces, required replacing everything in system. A $30 part tuned into $1100.00 in parts PITA job, well worth changing drier around 300k mi. On my 01 I changed it at 200k along with condensor.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
07-13-2019, 04:15 PM
|
#13
|
|
Junior Member
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Florida
Posts: 21
|
|
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Florida
Posts: 21
|
Recharge or new compressor
I recharged my A/C recently with that A/C Pro bottle. I think it is R134. It has a pressure gauge and tells me when it is filled. It was not blowing cold air and after it became much better.
If efficiency is the ultimate goal than get a high-end compressor as it will take less energy from the engine and cool the cabin better.
Good luck all.
__________________
1998 White Toyota 4Runner Limited V6 4WD - 255k miles
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
07-13-2019, 05:09 PM
|
#14
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 101
|
|
Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 101
|
I agree, the AC in my 4runner has had zero maintenance as far as I know and it's crazy cold compared to even newer cars. Compared to my '15 Fiesta ST, it's a night/day difference. I can't think of another car I've been in recently where I get cold inside and have to turn up the temperature even when it's 100 degrees outside.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgue467
+1. Toyota is Not dumb and engineered it that way.
Now here was my thought. My a/c is beyond belief COLD as is (dirty with very little maintenance other than one item described below)! After 15 mins of cooling a closed (hours long) in central texas 105+ temps, I have to turn fan speed down, redirect "crotch" cooler vent and so forth.
It doesn't need to be more efficient.
Now here is what I think many, many folks over look in a/c maintenance, the space between the condensor and radiator. Remove the skid pan and take a good look up between the two. That is where debris, grass and such begin to block the flow of air which is what both depend on.
I'd like to clean my evaporator, I'm sure it's never been opened and has to be horribly dirty yet the SOB is beyond belief cold as it, should I bother?
Luck and enjoy those Runners.
|
__________________
'99 Millenium Silver Limited
Toytec/Eibach coils on 5100's, OME 890 rear coils, 275/70R18 Duratrac on Pro Comp 18x9's
'03 V8 4X4 Limited
Asfir skid plate, Eibach Pro Kit, Wilco Hitchgate Solo, Retrofit headlights, 265/70r17 Grabber ATX on Motegi Trailites
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Rate This Thread |
Linear Mode
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is On
|
|
|
|