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Old 08-13-2019, 10:04 PM #31
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You can also switch out your fluid in the fan clutch to make it draw more air. Never done it, just know it's common in LC 80 forums.
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Old 08-13-2019, 11:42 PM #32
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Originally Posted by Toy2play View Post
I'm looking at the 05-09 4.7 runners right now. I'm wondering how much the difference will be with my 3rd gen supercharged runner with 2.2 pulley vs the stock 4.7 v8? I know that my tires and extra weight certainly kill some power. I would hope there is a significant difference, especially if I kept the 4th gen completely stock. Like I said in the past, this popup loaded shouldn't be more than 3000-3300 pounds. Thankfully the popup has electric brakes and I'll installed a brake controller. Really helps with braking. The 3rd gen doesn't feel like it gets thrown around too much with this load, just lack of power on steeper inclines.

Maybe I'll install a bigger cooler for the 3rd gen and see if that helps with slow speed off roading in combination with using 4lo more.
Oh, I forgot you are supercharged. Bigger tires make towing very cumbersome though for sure, I bet even being supercharged you have only a slight amount more rear wheel torque than a stock 4Runner with factory tires sizes. Gearing really would make a difference for you if you wanted to go that route. Trailer brakes really do make a difference too, the stopping part can be very scary in a 4Runner without even towing anything! The brakes definitely have room for improvement.

A V8 4Runner has a towing capacity of up to 7,300 pounds. It's a heavier vehicle too by over 500 lbs, which makes a difference since it will be less likely to sway like the lighter 3rd Gens and also has a wider wheelbase than a 3rd Gen. There is some improvement in the power dept though since a V8 4Runner makes more power as a stock pulley supercharged 5VZ-FE and has more torque. Really up to you though since it does have a different look and feel than a 3rd gen.
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Old 08-14-2019, 12:15 AM #33
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Oh, I forgot you are supercharged. Bigger tires make towing very cumbersome though for sure, I bet even being supercharged you have only a slight amount more rear wheel torque than a stock 4Runner with factory tires sizes. Gearing really would make a difference for you if you wanted to go that route. Trailer brakes really do make a difference too, the stopping part can be very scary in a 4Runner without even towing anything! The brakes definitely have room for improvement.

A V8 4Runner has a towing capacity of up to 7,300 pounds. It's a heavier vehicle too by over 500 lbs, which makes a difference since it will be less likely to sway like the lighter 3rd Gens and also has a wider wheelbase than a 3rd Gen. There is some improvement in the power dept though since a V8 4Runner makes more power as a stock pulley supercharged 5VZ-FE and has more torque. Really up to you though since it does have a different look and feel than a 3rd gen.
Yeah I'm geared at 4.88. I mean it's not the worst towing right now, but certainly steep inclines just kill it. Having to really get into it, really high rpms. I've also read that the torque curve on the 4.7 is much different than the 3.4. I dont mind the look and feel of the 4th. I wouldnt get rid of my 3rd gen. Could use the 4th for towing, 3rd gen for offroad overland/crawling, and my scion for daily driving. 3rd and 4th gens wouldnt have a lot of miles put on them either. As is, I'm looking at towing once or twice a month for camping trips, ranging from 400-600 mile round trips with doing some trips to California or surround states from Utah. The more I think about it, the less I see the 3rd gen towing that far.
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Old 08-14-2019, 12:01 PM #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy2play View Post
I'm looking at the 05-09 4.7 runners right now. I'm wondering how much the difference will be with my 3rd gen supercharged runner with 2.2 pulley vs the stock 4.7 v8? I know that my tires and extra weight certainly kill some power. I would hope there is a significant difference, especially if I kept the 4th gen completely stock. Like I said in the past, this popup loaded shouldn't be more than 3000-3300 pounds. Thankfully the popup has electric brakes and I'll installed a brake controller. Really helps with braking. The 3rd gen doesn't feel like it gets thrown around too much with this load, just lack of power on steeper inclines.

Maybe I'll install a bigger cooler for the 3rd gen and see if that helps with slow speed off roading in combination with using 4lo more.
what kind of power does a blown 3.4 make? the 06+ 4.7 all stock makes about 330ft/lbs. I cant think the 3.4 comes anywhere near that.


edit: a quick search found this.

Quote:
My best dyno run supercharged without any fuel mods is
225 HP
238 TQ
so yeah, 100ft/lbs you will notice that.
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Old 08-14-2019, 12:40 PM #35
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Some very sloppy comparisons. Surprisingly, the V8 doesn't make all that much more torque than a well tuned S/C V6 3rd gen. So maybe you wouldn't see a huge difference.

V8 4th Gen (with aFe intake)



Supercharged 3rd Gen (with 7th injector):

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Old 08-14-2019, 05:28 PM #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamefreakgc View Post
Some very sloppy comparisons. Surprisingly, the V8 doesn't make all that much more torque than a well tuned S/C V6 3rd gen. So maybe you wouldn't see a huge difference.

V8 4th Gen (with aFe intake)



Supercharged 3rd Gen (with 7th injector):

Hmm thats quite a bit off from what stock numbers are. Can it really be that low? I see that isn't for the 4th gen, but it is the 4.7 V8. I wonder if there are differences. Also I'm curious what the 4th gen runs as far as cooling for the tranny. I thought I saw a picture of an external transmission cooler, but I need to look it up before stating anything.
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Old 08-14-2019, 05:34 PM #37
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Originally Posted by Toy2play View Post
Hmm thats quite a bit off from what stock numbers are. Can it really be that low? I see that isn't for the 4th gen, but it is the 4.7 V8. I wonder if there are differences. Also I'm curious what the 4th gen runs as far as cooling for the tranny. I thought I saw a picture of an external transmission cooler, but I need to look it up before stating anything.
Yeah they have a small external. My buddy has a 2006 with a V8. Maybe head over to the 4th gen section and see if there is anyone that can help
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Old 08-14-2019, 05:42 PM #38
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Hmm thats quite a bit off from what stock numbers are. Can it really be that low? I see that isn't for the 4th gen, but it is the 4.7 V8. I wonder if there are differences. Also I'm curious what the 4th gen runs as far as cooling for the tranny. I thought I saw a picture of an external transmission cooler, but I need to look it up before stating anything.
yes they have an auxiliary cooler.


Transmission aux cooler flow direction


I haven't done much towing with mine, but have pulled some long steep grades at speed, in the middle of summer with the AC on. using the torque app to monitor the trans temps, I barely saw 200°.


as to that dyno chart, its a bit hard to believe. ive driven a few 3rd gens with factory SC's, and they were in no way comparable to my v8 as far as power goes. it wasn't even close.
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Old 08-14-2019, 07:11 PM #39
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Quote:
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Hmm thats quite a bit off from what stock numbers are. Can it really be that low? I see that isn't for the 4th gen, but it is the 4.7 V8. I wonder if there are differences. Also I'm curious what the 4th gen runs as far as cooling for the tranny. I thought I saw a picture of an external transmission cooler, but I need to look it up before stating anything.
There's a big difference between power/torque at the wheels and at the engine...

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Old 08-14-2019, 07:12 PM #40
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That dyno is from a 7th injector TRD S/C, which adds roughly 30 RWHP & 30 RWTQ over a stock supercharger. Was trying to find something comparable to Toy2Play's engine since it's got the 2.2" pulley.

Toyota's posted max Engine torque for the V8 is 320, so 260 is about right if you factor in ~20% drivetrain loss due to the 4WD components and transmission, since the original test is done on an engine dyno, not a chassis dyno (320*0.8=256). I did see it's on a Lexus GX470, which is the 4Runner's big brother so that might be part of it, I wonder if the 4Runner's numbers are bit higher.

On another note, don't buy that aFe intake unless you can flash the ECU lol. It leans out the AFR's to over 14!
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:14 PM #41
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Quote:
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Yeah they have a small external. My buddy has a 2006 with a V8. Maybe head over to the 4th gen section and see if there is anyone that can help
Appreciate that. I've posted a couple times recently, but that was more of looking at a 4.0 V6 that had a head gasket failure for cheap, but come to realize that it wouldnt be much different than my 3.4. I'm sure there is a ton of info on the 4.7.

Quote:
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yes they have an auxiliary cooler.


Transmission aux cooler flow direction


I haven't done much towing with mine, but have pulled some long steep grades at speed, in the middle of summer with the AC on. using the torque app to monitor the trans temps, I barely saw 200°.



as to that dyno chart, its a bit hard to believe. ive driven a few 3rd gens with factory SC's, and they were in no way comparable to my v8 as far as power goes. it wasn't even close.
Right on, probably with the V8 you are not pushing nearly as hard as the 3.4 when towing.

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That dyno is from a 7th injector TRD S/C, which adds roughly 30 RWHP & 30 RWTQ over a stock supercharger. Was trying to find something comparable to Toy2Play's engine since it's got the 2.2" pulley.

Toyota's posted max Engine torque for the V8 is 320, so 260 is about right if you factor in ~20% drivetrain loss due to the 4WD components and transmission, since the original test is done on an engine dyno, not a chassis dyno (320*0.8=256). I did see it's on a Lexus GX470, which is the 4Runner's big brother so that might be part of it, I wonder if the 4Runner's numbers are bit higher.

On another note, don't buy that aFe intake unless you can flash the ECU lol. It leans out the AFR's to over 14!
That's true, forgot that the numbers toyota quote is not at the wheels.
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:28 PM #42
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One last question, seeing spikes of transmission temps to 250* on rare occasions and say more times around 220-230*, but in general normal operating temps, only thing it's damaging is the fluid? When I do drain and fills, my fluid is surprisingly clean.
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Old 08-14-2019, 11:49 PM #43
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One last question, seeing spikes of transmission temps to 250* on rare occasions and say more times around 220-230*, but in general normal operating temps, only thing it's damaging is the fluid? When I do drill and fills, my fluid us surprisingly clean.
That's what everything I've found on the subject says, yes. Just cuts the service life of the fluid. I never caught where you're gauge is getting it's reading at?
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Old 08-15-2019, 12:22 AM #44
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That's what everything I've found on the subject says, yes. Just cuts the service life of the fluid. I never caught where you're gauge is getting it's reading at?
Installed aftermarket gauge and gets it reading on the transmission(return?)line just before it goes into the radiator. Cooler is installed after the radiator in series with a inline filter before the oil goes back into the tranny.
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Old 08-16-2019, 09:18 PM #45
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Someone else posted some very interesting information about transmissions and transmission fluid. I thought it would we good to have here.
Tranny Temp Message on a 3100# trailer normal? - TundraTalk.net - Toyota Tundra Discussion Forum

When you truck is not moving, or moving slow, and you step on gas hard, what is allowing the engine to turn while the truck tires don't move is the torque converter. The torque converter has plates in close tolerance to each other with transmission fluid in between the plates. One plate is spinning very close to a second plate this is not spinning and the transmission fluid in between creates friction which transfers the torque from the spinning plate to the non-spinning plate. This is how a car/truck can be in gear and stopped with the engine running. The constant pull is the torque converter spinning. But the spinning causes a lot of heat. And the faster you turn the engine, the more friction you create, the more heat you create. That is why when you tried to back up with a high engine load and a high load from the trailer, you created enough heat to cause the transmission temp light to come on.

When a truck is up to speed on a road and you let off on the gas, you can often feel the transmission torque converter lock up which is a set of clutches that come together between the plates and lock them in place. When the torque converter locks up, no more heat is generated. When you step on the gas to accelerate or are pulling something heavy, the torque converter unlocks, the engine speed picks up, and you are back to having the plates spin against each other and generate heat. Pulling trailers with a toque converter unlocked generates a lot of heat and is often the cause of the transmission failing.

As your transmission fluid gets old, it looses it's frictional properties and it takes more engine spin to create the same output force. You may find that a transmission fluid change will help some. Or you may notice no difference. But chances are good it will help.

The other thing going on is that the transmission has pressure in it which are used to make it shift. When the transmission is in gear, the solenoids inside the trans direct fluid to first, second, third, etc gear and when the fluid pressure is sent there, a band clamps down around a shaft and that is how the transmission changes gear. If your transmission fluid is bad, or the transmission needs rebuilt, it may not be building enough pressure to hold the band tight enough to keep the shaft from spinning. This is called slipping. Or the band may be just worn out and can't stop the shaft from turning. But one thing is for sure, a transmission does not slip for long. When the friction surface (like a brake pad) wears off, it's done and time for a complete rebuild.

Poor quality transmission fluid (ie, old worn out fluid) and/or a clogged trans filter and/or leaking seals in the transmission can all cause poor pressure and cause slipping.

It is hard to know if the torque convert was just slipping like normal, or if the low gear band was slipping, or both.

But the moral of the story is don't spin your engine hard when your wheels wont turn or you are under heavy load (like a heavy trailer up hill). Jack rabbit starts, racing, flooring it all the time, etc. That is how you wreck a transmission. And the older the transmission, the more you need to baby it.

Burnt transmission oil smell means things have gone very badly and it is time to go to the parts store and look for something that says "miracle" on the bottle and try to poor that in there.
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