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Old 09-03-2019, 03:02 PM #1
mbae mbae is offline
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Suspension help

Hey all,
Looking to buy some new suspension for a 97 4runner and would like to know if I am missing anything.

After hours of research, I have decided to go with the Tundra 5100's with OME 881/890 springs. I have a set of SCS F5 16x8 with 4.50 BS going on a set of 285/75r16 tires.

Do I need a coil isolator for the OME 881? Also is the extended brake line in my cart necessary? Can wheelers offroad build the suspension for me even if I dont choose to buy new top hats?

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Old 09-03-2019, 04:30 PM #2
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You'll need two of these if you want wheeler's to assemble them for you: Strut Top Plate/ Upper Coil Support (904900)
Then you won't have to buy the isolators either.
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Old 09-04-2019, 07:48 AM #3
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are the extended brake lines needed? what is the minimum lift required to fit the 285s? if its 3'', i am assuming a panhard correction kit wouldnt hurt?
and if i buy the new top hats, do i still need the front strut stem cushion and washer kit?
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Old 09-04-2019, 08:50 AM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbae View Post
are the extended brake lines needed? what is the minimum lift required to fit the 285s? if its 3'', i am assuming a panhard correction kit wouldnt hurt?
and if i buy the new top hats, do i still need the front strut stem cushion and washer kit?
Extended brake lines aren't necessary, but in my opinion are nice to have for the $$$. Plenty of people still using stock brake hose and flexing just fine.

Lift amount doesn't matter if your are planning on flexing the front end. All a front suspension lift does is change the static vehicle height. If you offroad much you will still cycle the front suspension through the original front suspension arc. You will need to do some trimming/clearancing to allow the full range of motion with 285's or anything bigger than stock. If you're a mall crawler then you may have to deal with a little rubbing without trimming.

Panhard correction kit would help with handling at lifted heights.

It looks like both front and rear shocks come with all the needed bushings/washers but I would email wheeler's customer support to verify.
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:20 AM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Luck View Post
Extended brake lines aren't necessary, but in my opinion are nice to have for the $$$. Plenty of people still using stock brake hose and flexing just fine.

Lift amount doesn't matter if your are planning on flexing the front end. All a front suspension lift does is change the static vehicle height. If you offroad much you will still cycle the front suspension through the original front suspension arc. You will need to do some trimming/clearancing to allow the full range of motion with 285's or anything bigger than stock. If you're a mall crawler then you may have to deal with a little rubbing without trimming.

Panhard correction kit would help with handling at lifted heights.

It looks like both front and rear shocks come with all the needed bushings/washers but I would email wheeler's customer support to verify.
appreciate the help. does wheelers offer any discount to forum members?
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:22 AM #6
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appreciate the help. does wheelers offer any discount to forum members?
Not that I'm aware of.
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:37 AM #7
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I'm a total noob at this, but curious why you want to go with the Tundra 5100s now that Bilstein has released a specific 5100 fitment for the 3rd gen 4Runner?

Bilstein 5100 Series Ride Height Adjustable Shock Absorber - 24-248730 | 4wheelparts.com
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:49 AM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rightyouareken View Post
I'm a total noob at this, but curious why you want to go with the Tundra 5100s now that Bilstein has released a specific 5100 fitment for the 3rd gen 4Runner?

Bilstein 5100 Series Ride Height Adjustable Shock Absorber - 24-248730 | 4wheelparts.com
Tundra front shocks have more travel and the clip locations allow for more preload therefore more lift. Tundra 6112 Bilstein On 3rd Gen. Info & Install

Edit: I know it says 6112 but he has info on 4Runner and Tundra 5100's

Last edited by Bad Luck; 09-04-2019 at 09:50 AM. Reason: Added info
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:51 AM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Luck View Post
Tundra front shocks have more travel and the clip locations allow for more preload therefore more lift. Tundra 6112 Bilstein On 3rd Gen. Info & Install
from what i've read the 890 spring for the rear may be too tall for the 3rd gen specific 5100 hence why i decided to go with the tundra model.

with the fronts, i am told the 4runner specific ones are a bit soft so i decided tundra fronts as well.
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Old 09-04-2019, 10:09 AM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbae View Post
from what i've read the 890 spring for the rear may be too tall for the 3rd gen specific 5100 hence why i decided to go with the tundra model.

with the fronts, i am told the 4runner specific ones are a bit soft so i decided tundra fronts as well.
Gotcha, makes sense.
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Old 09-04-2019, 11:10 AM #11
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I have a set of new rear 5100's I will sell you if you are interested. I was acquiring parts for my 4runner when I wrecked it. It wasn't worth trying to fix.
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Old 09-04-2019, 01:51 PM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Luck View Post
Tundra front shocks have more travel and the clip locations allow for more preload therefore more lift.
I hate this part of me, but I worked as a suspension tech for a high-end race business at one point and inaccuracies drive me bonkers.

If the travel is longer on the Tundra body, and you run a clip position that's enough higher to account for that extra length, then the spring preload is the exact same. It does result in a lift, simply because the spring perch is higher with more available extension, but not extra preload.

That's a Good Thing (TM), you really don't Want a ton of pre-load. In the real world, that results in stiff/harsh feeling at slower speeds and over "soft" bumps ~ mostly it makes expansion joints on the highway worse, but offers zero benefit once you overcome that preload as you still have the same old springs. It's how the uneducated get their look, but at the expense of comfort/performance.


Anyway, for half an inch of extra travel it's Not worth it unless you're running a heavy 4runner (Tundra weights). The springs are the reason for that. Too stiff springs and it won't Matter that you have another .5" of travel as you won't even get close anyway (not enough weight to compress the shock). And if you swap springs, you're going to get into an issue where the rebound feels over-dampened (the shock is expecting more force to extend)... on a washboard road, you'll feel Everything worse because of that as the shock CAN'T extend and gets compressed more and more until eventually you're running what would best be compared to a rigid setup.


It's lose-lose... you need the right spring rate First, then the valving to match that spring rate.

Anyway, carry on as if I never ranted and rambled... I'm sorry for my lack of willpower in this regard, but I really just can't control myself.
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Old 09-04-2019, 01:55 PM #13
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I'm not sure what you're getting at, but I do know using a higher spring perch clip=more spring preload=higher static height
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Old 09-04-2019, 02:36 PM #14
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Quote:
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I'm not sure what you're getting at, but I do know using a higher spring perch clip=more spring preload=higher static height
Nope, you've got the middle one wrong when talking T4R vs Tundra.

Look, the spring perches are 1/3rd of an inch (.333) apart on the 6112. If the overall shock length is .5" longer (Tundra vs T4R), and you run 2 spring perches higher than on a comparable T4R shock, the spring preload is the same (well, .16" more) while providing lift. That's assuming the same length and rate spring.

When talking T4R vs T4R (or Tundra vs Tundra) and you go from 3rd spring perch to 5th spring perch, yes that IS preload and providing (the wrong kind) of lift. In this case, the higher the lift, the harsher the ride due to the increased preload... it's a trade-off.

But the discussion was using the Tundra body for "extra" lift.

Like I said, doesn't matter, ignore me. It's a sickness I can't get rid of when it comes to suspension.
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Old 09-04-2019, 02:49 PM #15
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Nope, you've got the middle one wrong when talking T4R vs Tundra.

Look, the spring perches are 1/3rd of an inch (.333) apart on the 6112. If the overall shock length is .5" longer (Tundra vs T4R), and you run 2 spring perches higher than on a comparable T4R shock, the spring preload is the same (well, .16" more) while providing lift. That's assuming the same length and rate spring.

When talking T4R vs T4R (or Tundra vs Tundra) and you go from 3rd spring perch to 5th spring perch, yes that IS preload and providing (the wrong kind) of lift. In this case, the higher the lift, the harsher the ride due to the increased preload... it's a trade-off.

But the discussion was using the Tundra body for "extra" lift.

Like I said, doesn't matter, ignore me. It's a sickness I can't get rid of when it comes to suspension.
I feel like you're not adequately understanding what I'm referring to so as my mother always said: "You may be right."

Edit: OP asked if the front shocks come with all the bushings required. I've never ordered that set, but maybe you would know if it has all the bushings or if he'll need the front stem washer and bushing kit for them to be able to assemble in house.

Edit 2: Never mind. It's included in the in house assembly along with the top plates.

Last edited by Bad Luck; 09-04-2019 at 02:59 PM. Reason: Added info:
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