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Old 10-23-2019, 10:00 AM #31
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Thanks for everyone's replies. I would like to remind everyone, I don't have any oil on the side walls or in the drums. Thus it hasn't actually passed through the outter seal and bearing, only the inner seal at this point. All of this started due to having sticking rear drums in cool weather. I think I can safely say that can be solved by replacing the pads and resurfacing drums. Now the question is.. will just replacing the shoes, drums and inner seal do the trick.

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Old 10-23-2019, 10:49 AM #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TejasRunner01 View Post
Thanks for everyone's replies. I would like to remind everyone, I don't have any oil on the side walls or in the drums. Thus it hasn't actually passed through the outter seal and bearing, only the inner seal at this point. All of this started due to having sticking rear drums in cool weather. I think I can safely say that can be solved by replacing the pads and resurfacing drums. Now the question is.. will just replacing the shoes, drums and inner seal do the trick.

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Where the oil is pooling past the inner axle seal your wheel bearing is sitting in the gear oil as well washing the grease out.

To answer your question, replacing the inner axle seal and verifying the seal is in the correct area on the axle retainer with either a grease test or sharpie test will fix the leak. Brake shoes will need to be replaced due to oil contamination. You can try cleaning any oil from the inside of the drum first if you don't want to resurface them. A new axle retainer is recommended so the new inner axle seal has a new smooth surface to seal against is recommended.
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Old 10-23-2019, 11:07 AM #33
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Originally Posted by TejasRunner01 View Post
Thanks for everyone's replies. I would like to remind everyone, I don't have any oil on the side walls or in the drums. Thus it hasn't actually passed through the outter seal and bearing, only the inner seal at this point. All of this started due to having sticking rear drums in cool weather. I think I can safely say that can be solved by replacing the pads and resurfacing drums. Now the question is.. will just replacing the shoes, drums and inner seal do the trick.

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Some people have gotten away with just replacing the inner axle seal and I would have to say that's more of a situation of dumb luck. This topic has been covered ad nauseam on this forum but I'll explain the situation right here for you. The axle seal has been redesigned by Toyota some time in the past. The seal lip now sits apprx. 2mm more inboard. Just replacing the seal and not addressing the position of the inner retainer on the axle will give you a poor mating. The seal lip will be barely riding on the polished shoulder of the retainer.

At the very least, remove the inner retainer and ABS tone ring. Pull these parts off with the appropriate tool and don't cut them off because it's a big waste of money cutting them off and you also run the risk of cutting too deep and scoring your axle shafts. Now, put them back on with the inner retainer flipped (bevel facing the ABS tone ring) with apprx. 5mm of polished axle showing above the retainer. Now do the grease or sharpie test to confirm you have a good mating of the axle seal and inner retainer. You're looking to get the seal lip riding dead center on the 10mm polished shoulder of the retainer but it doesn't need to be perfect. You just don't want the seal lip riding close to either end of the retainer and you don't want it riding on the bevel. If you need to make adjustments to the inner retainer position, do so by driving it on further or pulling it back a little with your axle tool.

The only way to guarantee you won't be going back in to do this job sooner than you hoped is to just go ahead and replace the bearings. You might get away with repacking the bearings and then again you might not. Excessive bearing play has an effect on the longevity of that axle seal. The more axle play, the more strain on the seal. I guess you have to figure if a little extra time and money saved up front is worth you potentially have to redo this job again. My advice is to replace the bearings and other associated parts and be done with it. You can save money by reusing both retainers and ABS tone ring on each axle. Reusing those 4 retainers and 2 ABS tone rings will save you around $150 with online pricing.

Watch the videos below to learn more. The first video covers most of what you need to learn and be sure to read the video description and comment I pinned. The second video introduces a new tool that I highly recommend people purchase over the Durasolid tool we used in the first video.



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Old 10-23-2019, 11:36 AM #34
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Originally Posted by Drcoffee View Post
The mistake many make is replacing the bearings. If the seal leaks, the bearings will be floating in gear oil and well lubricated. Its when you fix the seal and the oil stops flowing that the bearing fails from being dry. Knowing what I know now, I would have just removed the bearing side cover and washed out the gear oil with brake cleaner, drain out the oil on the outer side of the bearing (drill a 1/8 hole in the dust seal and plug it when drained) and repacked the bearings with lithium grease before reassembling the axle with the reversed inner retainer. The cost would be about $25 a side. New seal, new retainer, lithium grease.

*Cut the old retainer off and heat the new retainer to install.
Hey @Drcoffee ,

In the quoted method above, how are you repacking the bearing if they are sealed? I'm just trying to figure out from which side you are accessing to repack the lithium grease.

Also just confirming, you are saying to drill a hole in the dust shield in the drum area to drain any possible oil that resides inside?

Thanks!



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Old 10-23-2019, 11:44 AM #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbtim View Post
Some people have gotten away with just replacing the inner axle seal and I would have to say that's more of a situation of dumb luck. This topic has been covered ad nauseam on this forum but I'll explain the situation right here for you. The axle seal has been redesigned by Toyota some time in the past. The seal lip now sits apprx. 2mm more inboard. Just replacing the seal and not addressing the position of the inner retainer on the axle will give you a poor mating. The seal lip will be barely riding on the polished shoulder of the retainer.



At the very least, remove the inner retainer and ABS tone ring. Pull these parts off with the appropriate tool and don't cut them off because it's a big waste of money cutting them off and you also run the risk of cutting too deep and scoring your axle shafts. Now, put them back on with the inner retainer flipped (bevel facing the ABS tone ring) with apprx. 5mm of polished axle showing above the retainer. Now do the grease or sharpie test to confirm you have a good mating of the axle seal and inner retainer. You're looking to get the seal lip riding dead center on the 10mm polished shoulder of the retainer but it doesn't need to be perfect. You just don't want the seal lip riding close to either end of the retainer and you don't want it riding on the bevel. If you need to make adjustments to the inner retainer position, do so by driving it on further or pulling it back a little with your axle tool.



The only way to guarantee you won't be going back in to do this job sooner than you hoped is to just go ahead and replace the bearings. You might get away with repacking the bearings and then again you might not. Excessive bearing play has an effect on the longevity of that axle seal. The more axle play, the more strain on the seal. I guess you have to figure if a little extra time and money saved up front is worth you potentially have to redo this job again. My advice is to replace the bearings and other associated parts and be done with it. You can save money by reusing both retainers and ABS tone ring on each axle. Reusing those 4 retainers and 2 ABS tone rings will save you around $150 with online pricing.



Watch the videos below to learn more. The first video covers most of what you need to learn and be sure to read the video description and comment I pinned. The second video introduces a new tool that I highly recommend people purchase over the Durasolid tool we used in the first video.







Hey @mtbtim ,

Love your vids man. Was watching them today, I feel fairly confident in this repair after watching your videos plus reading all of Dr. Coffee's post. I guess it comes down to how much it will cost to get all of these tool investments cost vs having a machine shop help press these to the correct spacing and dimension. If repacking the bearing was an option, I certainly wouldn't mind flipping the inner retainer, new inner seal and repacking the bearing. I just am fuzzy on how to repack a sealed bearing?

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Old 10-23-2019, 11:56 AM #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TejasRunner01 View Post
I just am fuzzy on how to repack a sealed bearing?
The seal on either side of the bearing is just an interference fit. It can be popped out using a very small screwdriver, dental-type pick or even a thin knife blade. The important detail is not harming the seal when doing this. Pop out via the outer (larger) edge, as this edge does not rotate about the outer race when assembled. The inner (smaller) edge does rotate about the inner race and must not be scarred or you'll need to replace the bearing.

After thoroughly cleaning out the bearing with aerosol parts cleaner (with the little plastic tube), the bearing innards need to be dried completely before re-packing with a high quality wheel bearing grease. Then the seal simply pops back into place. Best to rotate the bearing and press the seal edge repeatedly to ensure its proper placement.

Here's a pretty good video describing the process. Clean the innards out well and dry, don't just re-pack. The gear lube is a contaminant at this point.
Lubricating sealed bearings
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Old 10-23-2019, 12:31 PM #37
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Originally Posted by Riceye View Post
The seal on either side of the bearing is just an interference fit. It can be popped out using a very small screwdriver, dental-type pick or even a thin knife blade. The important detail is not harming the seal when doing this. Pop out via the outer (larger) edge, as this edge does not rotate about the outer race when assembled. The inner (smaller) edge does rotate about the inner race and must not be scarred or you'll need to replace the bearing.

After thoroughly cleaning out the bearing with aerosol parts cleaner (with the little plastic tube), the bearing innards need to be dried completely before re-packing with a high quality wheel bearing grease. Then the seal simply pops back into place. Best to rotate the bearing and press the seal edge repeatedly to ensure its proper placement.

Here's a pretty good video describing the process. Clean the innards out well and dry, don't just re-pack. The gear lube is a contaminant at this point.
Lubricating sealed bearings
@Riceye Thank you for this nice explanation, I didn't know what the bearing side cover meant. Your video was very helpful. So which side of bearing side plate are you accessing this from. The inner side closest to the retainers or the outer side through the dust cover somehow? I guess from pictures you could access this from the inner side as the bearing side cover is large enough to slip over the retainer for room to work. Have you done this with some successful miles on the clock now?

Thank you every body again!

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Old 10-23-2019, 01:13 PM #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TejasRunner01 View Post
Thank you for this nice explanation, I didn't know what the bearing side cover meant. Your video was very helpful. So which side of bearing side plate are you accessing this from. The inner side closest to the retainers or the outter side through the dust cover somehow? I guess from pictures you could access this from the inner side as the bearing side cover is large enough to slip over the retainer for room to work.

Thank you every body again!
Timely thread. While discovering I had bad u-joints and driveshaft I noticed dust clinging to one inner drum brake. Pulled it this morning and found oil in the ABS sensor area and sadly; the brake shoes are contaminated with diff fluid.

I know I'll get this 01 in top condition one day but it has been the worst money pit I've ever owned out of the 40-50 vehicles I've owned.

One good thing is I already have the HF press because I thought I had a bad front bearing but it turned out the be a shoddy pad replacement with parts floating where they shouldn't.

I ordered the tool to pull the rear bearing. I think at this point I'll go ahead and replace both axle seals, repack the bearing on the side that's leaking diff fluid, and replace all 4 brake shoes. I think the drums are still good once cleaned up. Since I replaced the rotors and pads up front recently I'll have a nice new brake job to go with the rest of the nice new driveline/engine parts.
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Old 10-23-2019, 06:48 PM #39
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Just want to say thanks to Tim for his videos! We had a bad axle seal leak which was flinging oil up the tire and even lead to the brakes freezing after a hard stop.

Bought the parts online and found a local transmission/machine shop to do the work... came out around $750 total including all the parts Tim lists in his ABS video plus new brake shoes installed... compare that to the $1360 the dealer wanted


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Old 10-23-2019, 07:44 PM #40
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Originally Posted by TejasRunner01 View Post
Hey @Drcoffee ,

In the quoted method above, how are you repacking the bearing if they are sealed? I'm just trying to figure out from which side you are accessing to repack the lithium grease.

Also just confirming, you are saying to drill a hole in the dust shield in the drum area to drain any possible oil that resides inside?

Thanks!



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The red side plate can be carefully removed, clean out the gear oil and repack with Lithium grease. The bearing isnt very thick. Use a pick and pry off the inner plastic cover. Spray with non chlorinated brake cleaner until the grease is removed and blow out the cleaner with compressed air. Then work in the new grease.

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Old 10-23-2019, 08:17 PM #41
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The Drcoffee method does work, have not had the need to use on 4Runner yet.
The trick is removing the seal without bending distorting it. be gentle, dental picks or something as small and stiff gets removal started use a second pick with the first.
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Old 10-23-2019, 10:03 PM #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drcoffee View Post
The red side plate can be carefully removed, clean out the gear oil and repack with Lithium grease. The bearing isnt very thick. Use a pick and pry off the inner plastic cover. Spray with non chlorinated brake cleaner until the grease is removed and blow out the cleaner with compressed air. Then work in the new grease.
Just to clarify; you're saying the bearing should be removed from the axle to clean and repack the bearing?

Also; why does it need to be non chlorinated brake cleaner?
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Old 10-24-2019, 09:28 AM #43
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Just to clarify; you're saying the bearing should be removed from the axle to clean and repack the bearing?

Also; why does it need to be non chlorinated brake cleaner?
No, I don't think that's what Dr Coffee meant. When you remove a bearing from the axle, you can't protect it from the huge side load you're applying to it to drive the axle shaft out so the bearing shouldn't be reused. When putting a new bearing onto the axle, the bearing can be protected because as the axle is being driven in on one side, the outer retainer is supporting the inner race on the opposing side so the bearing isn't incurring any load.

All you have to do is what people have suggested. Get yourself a little pick tool or small screwdriver and lift up the bearing cover. From there, use a rag and wipe up grease and gear oil out of the bearing. Next, do several rounds of spraying brake cleaner in the bearing to clean it out further. I would rest the axle end that goes into the 3rd member onto a block of wood on the ground and spray up into the bearing letting gravity help me get the old grease and gear oil out. Once you're satisfied the bearing is pretty clean, repack it with a good high temp wheel bearing grease. Push grease into the bearing, turn the the axle shaft back in forth to work the grease into bearing and repeat until the bearing looks to be full of grease. Push the bearing cover back on and you'll be golden Pony Boy.

But, like I suggested above, you're rolling the dice by not replacing the bearings and might find you're going back in to do this job all over again sooner than you would have hoped.
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Old 10-24-2019, 09:42 AM #44
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Thanks Tim. I was trying to understand if doing this was possible with the bearing still on the axle. I guess I didn't need to buy the bearing removal tool after all. It will probably come in handy at some point I guess.

After giving it more thought I think I'll replace the bearing since I'll have the tools. What's another $60 at this point.... The rig only has 148k miles so I think I'll be good if I only change the seals on the other side.

By the way; I see the original tool maker added a plate to make it easier to remove the ABS gear and bearing but also bumped the price up to $269.
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Old 10-24-2019, 12:24 PM #45
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And, all of you axle seal leak sufferers - Check your differential breather! Fix (clean), replace or modify with a breather extension hose. This is a major cause of initial axle seal leakage.
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