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Old 09-11-2019, 06:22 PM #1
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Nitrous Experiences (Serious)

I've been seriously looking into adding a small nitrous shot system to my 4Runner. The NOS Sniper kit NOS 07005NOS NOS Sniper Single Fogger Wet Nitrous System - Multi-Fit has jets in the 35 - 75 HP shot range that would be as much as I would ever put in my engine. I've also been told that nitrous makes more power on a supercharged engine than a N/A one since the nitrous gas cools the intake charge and allows for more timing & power as a result. So it might be more like a ~40 to ~90 shot. I got my inspiration from Mad Maxx over on customtacos.com who is running a 160 HP shot on stock internals with the TRD supercharger at 11 PSI . Just goes to show how stout these engines really are.

Setup for me would be very simple, I already have a switched 12V signal from my AEM unit I would use to drive the solenoid relay based on engine RPM and Throttle position.

Looking for pointers, experiences (doesn't have to be just 4Runners). I'm already aware of the risk, I blew up my last engine trying new things so my risk tolerance is high.
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Old 09-11-2019, 06:30 PM #2
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Out of curiosity, and this is a serious question...why?

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Old 09-11-2019, 06:30 PM #3
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Old 09-11-2019, 06:33 PM #4
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Ok...at least a mod backed me up. I donít feel so bad for asking now.
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Old 09-11-2019, 06:57 PM #5
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Ok...at least a mod backed me up. I donít feel so bad for asking now.
Lol it's ok, I expected some blowback posting here I have enjoyed building up my engine since I bought it with a supercharger 5 years ago. I think it can be summed up in 2 main points:

1. I enjoy the process of building up the engine and improving it's performance. It's been a great learning experience for me and very rewarding since the 5VZ-FE is a very forgiving engine. Kind of like engine building 101.

2. I like driving fast. I suppose that's what drives people to drop 100 grand on a BMW, Porsche, Corvette or whatever flavor of car you like. There's a real thrill in going fast. I like the fact that I've taken a vehicle that is NOT fast by any stretch of the imagination and made it into something very unique.

The last time I had it on the dyno the tuner encouraged me to bring it to their next car show, he said it would surprise a lot of people based on how much power it was putting down. Was affirming that it really is as quick as I think it is for being a 21 year old vehicle with what started as a complete slug of an engine.
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Old 09-11-2019, 07:32 PM #6
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I'd imagine the install should be pretty simple. Where to put the bottle though, I prefer the setup Vin had on his Rx-7.
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Old 09-11-2019, 07:34 PM #7
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If you use it much, you'll be filling up your bottle on a regular basis. I've use nitrous before, with various V-8's, and it great for at the track, but not really that useful for getting to work in the morning. I'd go with a turbo if it were me.

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Old 09-11-2019, 08:27 PM #8
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I love the energy. Please link to finished product if you end up pulling the trigger.
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Old 09-12-2019, 09:40 AM #9
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now dont get me wrong, i like where your head is at... I just have an @$$hole in the back of my head that always wants a little more once i get going with go-fast parts. little more boost, it'll be fine, etc.
that usually ends badly which is why i've embraced the slow with the 4runner.

i feel like if you just have it solenoided to an rpm range you're going to be blowing through nitrous really fast unless you only have it on at certain times.
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Old 09-12-2019, 12:52 PM #10
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You guess you can get up to around 1,000 hp with extreme mod 3rz and 2JZ
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Old 09-12-2019, 01:34 PM #11
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While I'm not addicted to speed, there was a time when I thought it would be hilarious to put a quiet V8 with 300hp or so into my 1987 Tercel wagon. Leave it looking and sounding as stock as possible. I just think it would have been funny to outrun things like mustangs and corvettes in that doofus-looking thing ;-)
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Old 09-12-2019, 01:48 PM #12
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I had nitrous on a stand up jet ski. NOS wet kit with a fogger into the intake manifold and had a momentary setup so it came on at full throttle and then an easy to reach arming switch. Even with that I have limited experience at best. As usual tuning is everything and you'll be safe. There's lots of varying opinions I found for a wet system of fuel/N2O ratio. Originally I did 1:1 which was way too rich and then backed off the fuel quite a bit. In retrospect that should be pretty easy to figure out (but I was 16 at the time), I would assume you inject at 14.7:1 (or a hair richer) fuel/O2 and then some molar math to figure out how much nitrous you actually need to yield that oxygen ratio.

I never preheated the bottle or purged the system. I'm sure that's important but I didn't notice any issues with the short bursts I did. It always had plenty of pressure and the split second of air/fuel injection wasn't a big enough deal before the nitrous purged the lines and flowed out.

I would go with a wet system just since you aren't dependent on the injectors flowing enough to keep up, or get confused by the nitrous flow (though you have an AEM so maybe that's not an issue). I'd tap into the throttle body, probably inject off the back side of it. Then your normal fuel/air telemetry and mechanics aren't at all affected by the nitrous shot so as far as the engine is concerned everything is running normal and you're just adding on top of it without it knowing. Just make sure it doesn't ping and is tuned well and you'll be fine. But take everything I said with a grain of salt, I have limited experience at best and it was in a carbureted 2 stroke running race gas lol
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Old 09-12-2019, 02:07 PM #13
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I've installed some dry,direct-port,and single fogger systems; never on a 4Runner though. Actually still have lines, bottles and electronics lying around LOL

Is Mad Maxx running a single fogger or direct port, because I'm curious if it's a single fogger are there issues with uneven distribution to the cylinders. If you can have a separate fuel table for nitrous with the AEM I'd just use a single dry nozzle with fuel delivery through the injectors, as opposed to the mechanical means a traditional dry nitrous system does by increasing fuel pressure.
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Old 09-12-2019, 06:34 PM #14
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Loving the advice & experiences! Keep it coming. I figured there would be a few nitrous junkies on here :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by azrex View Post
If you use it much, you'll be filling up your bottle on a regular basis. I've use nitrous before, with various V-8's, and it great for at the track, but not really that useful for getting to work in the morning. I'd go with a turbo if it were me.
I totally get this part, it would be just a fun thing. I want to take my 4Runner out to the local 1/4 mile track on the truck nights sometime in the next year or so when I'm done building out this engine. The power level I'm at is more than adequate for zipping around town, I hardly ever go WOT since that's a bit quick for me so would definitely just be an occasional thing. I'm hoping though with just a 35 or 50 shot a bottle will last a long time.

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now dont get me wrong, i like where your head is at... I just have an @$$hole in the back of my head that always wants a little more once i get going with go-fast parts. little more boost, it'll be fine, etc.
that usually ends badly which is why i've embraced the slow with the 4runner.

i feel like if you just have it solenoided to an rpm range you're going to be blowing through nitrous really fast unless you only have it on at certain times.
IF (and that's a big if) it all works, it will be based on RPM as well as the TPS signal so it will rarely kick in. My methanol controller kicks on just at a simple 6 PSI but the nitrous would only turn on near WOT and only over 3000 RPM. The way the supercharger behaves on my engine I actually rarely drive over 3000 RPM. The transmission is always fighting me to drive at low RPMs which can cause problems.

I've swapped engines once before so heck, let's do it again! That's sarcasm by the way... I do like my current engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snivilous View Post
I had nitrous on a stand up jet ski. NOS wet kit with a fogger into the intake manifold and had a momentary setup so it came on at full throttle and then an easy to reach arming switch. Even with that I have limited experience at best. As usual tuning is everything and you'll be safe. There's lots of varying opinions I found for a wet system of fuel/N2O ratio. Originally I did 1:1 which was way too rich and then backed off the fuel quite a bit. In retrospect that should be pretty easy to figure out (but I was 16 at the time), I would assume you inject at 14.7:1 (or a hair richer) fuel/O2 and then some molar math to figure out how much nitrous you actually need to yield that oxygen ratio.

I never preheated the bottle or purged the system. I'm sure that's important but I didn't notice any issues with the short bursts I did. It always had plenty of pressure and the split second of air/fuel injection wasn't a big enough deal before the nitrous purged the lines and flowed out.

I would go with a wet system just since you aren't dependent on the injectors flowing enough to keep up, or get confused by the nitrous flow (though you have an AEM so maybe that's not an issue). I'd tap into the throttle body, probably inject off the back side of it. Then your normal fuel/air telemetry and mechanics aren't at all affected by the nitrous shot so as far as the engine is concerned everything is running normal and you're just adding on top of it without it knowing. Just make sure it doesn't ping and is tuned well and you'll be fine. But take everything I said with a grain of salt, I have limited experience at best and it was in a carbureted 2 stroke running race gas lol
This is super helpful! I agree, I've already got my AFR's dialed in really nice and I've got the octane boost to use it safely. A wet system that keeps the AFR's basically as is would work best since I don't want to keep the top end permanently enriched, so that if the nitrous isn't armed I would run pig rich.

I need to look into if a purge is worth my time or not. Seems more complicated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed_C View Post
I've installed some dry,direct-port,and single fogger systems; never on a 4Runner though. Actually still have lines, bottles and electronics lying around LOL

Is Mad Maxx running a single fogger or direct port, because I'm curious if it's a single fogger are there issues with uneven distribution to the cylinders. If you can have a separate fuel table for nitrous with the AEM I'd just use a single dry nozzle with fuel delivery through the injectors, as opposed to the mechanical means a traditional dry nitrous system does by increasing fuel pressure.
He's got a fogger, you can see some photos here: Nitrous - Toyota Tacoma Forum. He's got it setup as a 2-stage system so it doesn't hit too hard.

I do have the ability to have two fuel maps that are activated by a switch but I'm worried that I would forget to switch the maps before using the nitrous and run crazy lean and do something I would regret. Unless there's a way to tie in the arming switch to the AEM fuel map switch at the same time? A wet system seems so much safer though in case it doesn't work right. It only has to fail once... I have an oversized fuel pump that's got plenty of headroom so adding the extra wet injector should not screw with my fuel pressure.
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Old 09-12-2019, 10:06 PM #15
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Quote:
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I do have the ability to have two fuel maps that are activated by a switch but I'm worried that I would forget to switch the maps before using the nitrous and run crazy lean and do something I would regret. Unless there's a way to tie in the arming switch to the AEM fuel map switch at the same time? A wet system seems so much safer though in case it doesn't work right. It only has to fail once... I have an oversized fuel pump that's got plenty of headroom so adding the extra wet injector should not screw with my fuel pressure.
How fast can it switch? Can it switch the instant you engage the nitrous itself versus the arming switch? I'm not familiar with AEM, but is there not nitrous settings on the one you have where it knows the nitrous is being injected and can add fuel itself? You'd still have to rely on the injectors you have handling it, versus the nitrous being 100% standalone but it'd be a bit simpler then, and seems like you could add fail safes in the AEM where if the nitrous is active and the afr gets out of range to kill the nitrous. You could probably also set up progressive nitrous which I assume duty cycles the solenoid to simulate a smaller shot.

If your AEM is at all fancy it's probably easier, safer, and way more control having it run the nitrous. Could even run the fuel input on the fogger through the AEM probably.

Last edited by snivilous; 09-12-2019 at 10:08 PM.
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