5vzfe hot at idle only, oddities - Page 2 - Toyota 4Runner Forum

Bad Luck · 11-11-2019, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BostonJon

When you are idling higher (driving) you’re getting more pressure from the water pump and it’s pushing past a stuck/obstructed thermostat.

Water pumps do not create pressure. All they do is flow coolant. The coolant warming up in a sealed system is what creates pressure.

negusm · 11-12-2019, 01:05 AM

So what temperature is normal on the lower radiator hose?

I just got done buttoning up my 4Runner after a T-Belt install and the top gets hot but the lower seems to never warm up. New Asin Water Pump. New Motorad T-Stat. New Radiator. New radiator hoses. New radiator cap.

Drove for 30 minutes and she never overheated. Idling doesn't seem to overheat either. It just seems off that the lower radiator hose is so cool.

19963.4lsr5 · 11-12-2019, 02:15 AM

That lower hose is the cold coolant from the rad going back to the engine.

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phattyduck · 11-12-2019, 01:33 PM

I'd vote new OEM radiator cap and new OEM thermostat (jiggle at 6 o'clock).

I have had too many aftermarket radiator caps not seal or not vent correctly to do anything but OEM there these days...

-Charlie

TheDurk · 11-12-2019, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toyotaspeed90

This morning when cold the fan clutch had significant pressure, but not locked up. Assuming its fine.

Radiator was low. The cap looks awful. The overflow, as stated earlier, is overly full.

Warmed the truck up with the OBDII connected and IR in hand. Topped it off.

The ecu was registering right around 185. The tstat housing, after about 30 minutes of idle, never got above 140.

Increase in rpm, at idle, would see a slight decrease (2-3*) at the ecu.

With the system full the cap got warm but never hot.

So here's my possible diagnosis. Radiator is somewhat clogged and/or the tstat is stuck. This is causing a low flow issue through the radiator but not so bad that it can't maintain a temp via higher rpms (less of a 'moving' and more of a flow issue). Add a bad cap that allows increased pressure, allowing minor seepage and the ability for the overflow to fill, but not backfill.

So... new tstat ordered.

Fan clutch is being returned.

On Amazon the reviews for the Toyota radiators were awf. The Denso weren't much better. Local Denso was crazy expensive so I have a factory radiator from Toyota on order (less than a NAPA Denso, same price as NAPA brand) with a new factory cap.

I don't think your fan clutch is the problem in your case but I don't want to leave the bold without comment. You learned nothing by turning it while cold. I tested my dead one like that and then the new one when I changed my bad one and they were BOTH exactly like that. Here is how you evaluate a fan clutch:

Quote:

Testing the fan clutch:
If you have reason to suspect that the fan clutch is defective, here is the recommended procedure to verify the condition of the fan clutch.
1. Start the car (cold) with the hood open and note if the fan is turning, increase the engine RPM and note if the fan turns faster and the noise increases, if it does, first good indication, if it does not increase speed/noise, clutch is bad and needs to be replaced. (Remember, this must be tested after the car has been off for and extended period, over night etc.)
2. Leave engine running and note if the fan starts to slow down after 2-5 minutes, speed/noise should diminish and even raising the RPM, the fan should not make as much noise as when first starting, if it does slow, this is the second good indication. If speed/noise does not decrease, clutch may be “frozen” and should be replaced.
3. Leave the engine idle and watch the temperature indicator. When normal operating temperature has been reached, some increase in fan speed/noise should be noted, in particular when the RPM is increased. If temperature is fairly stable and the fan noise/speed increases or cycles, third good indication. If temperature indication continues to increase, with no increase in fan noise/speed, clutch is defective and should be replaced.
4. After the engine is at normal operating temperature or above, is the only time that the “rolled up newspaper” test that many people talk about should be performed! Take some newspaper and roll it up into a long narrow tube. Be careful, keep hands and fingers away from the fan while performing this test! With the engine at full operating temperature and idling, take the rolled up paper and insert it on the back side of the fan and try to reach the hub of the fan avoiding the blades until close to the hub. Push the rolled paper at the fan increasing the friction to the hub area of the fan. If the fan can not be stopped easily this is the fourth good indication, if it can be stopped the clutch is defective and should be replaced. Again, this test can only be performed when the engine is at or above full operating temperature.

Testing can be performed in any order but just make sure the conditions during testing are those that are specified for that specific test.
Do not continue to operate the engine if the temperature continues to rise and certainly stop if the temperature approaches “redline”.

negusm · 11-12-2019, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 19963.4lsr5

That lower hose is the cold coolant from the rad going back to the engine.

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Hah. I like you. Never assume someone knows the obvious.

But yes...I do know the lower radiator hose is the return hose and should be cooler...but not even warm?

-Mike

negusm · 11-12-2019, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phattyduck

I'd vote new OEM radiator cap and new OEM thermostat (jiggle at 6 o'clock).

I have had too many aftermarket radiator caps not seal or not vent correctly to do anything but OEM there these days...

-Charlie

Thanks. I kept the old thermostat.

I ran the old girl for a couple of hours in traffic today and she didn't overheat. I can put my hand on the top of the radiator. It's hot but not crazy hot. So I guess it's working.

-Mike

19963.4lsr5 · 11-12-2019, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by negusm

Hah. I like you. Never assume someone knows the obvious.

But yes...I do know the lower radiator hose is the return hose and should be cooler...but not even warm?

-Mike

In 50 degree weather I had to block 3/4 of my rad just to get the engine temp above 191 to test a PID I created for my ScanGauge. And was driving at 50mph.

If your rad is good I see no reason it’s not capable of reaching ambient temps on the return hose. I normally run 184-188.

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toyotaspeed90 · 11-17-2019, 02:26 PM

I'll post more when I have a few more minutes later, but I'm less than happy with Toyota (OEM) in getting a new radiator.

Had I known I wouldn't have bought OEM....

toyotaspeed90 · 11-17-2019, 08:23 PM

Alright, so... 1997 3.4, 4x4, manual.

I call Toyota and ask for price and availability. They give me a price and tell me Tuesday (last Friday). Price was lower than the Napa price for a Denso and only a few more dollars than the Napa brand.

I verify...

"This is for a manual, right? I don't want the trans cooler." They verify they loaded as a manual and check the diagram - no cooler.

Ok, great. "Oh, and does it come with a cap? If not, do you have them? It's just a small 13psi cap"

They verify - "yes. it comes with the cap, we have those as well".

So I order it.

Get it home - it had the AT trans cooler and NO cap.

I call. They scramble, then tell me that's the only radiator. I tell them it's disappointing.

I mention there's no cap. "Are you sure? It shows the cap comes with".

I verify, tell them the part number. They ask to put me on hold.

I look up on Toyo DIY - different part number on the radiator, but it only crosses to the one I have- damn.

They come back about 5 minutes later and say they had to dig through multiple service bulletins but that the cap doesn't come with.

So in the end I pay Toyota prices for, what I would consider to be the wrong radiator, and it's missing pieces from what I was quoted. They "gave me a deal" and knocked $10 off the cap price.

I also decided to replace the heater lines under the hood. When I did the TB I decided they were weeping but ok and looked to be a PITA so didnt fo them at that time. They didn't make me wrong. I used Napa hoses since Toyota pricing wawas way overkill.

Photos of heater lines before/after, a way to the lower bolts without removing anything, and the part number/radiator.

Also photo of the very used RADKITPLUSA....

brillo_76 · 11-17-2019, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 19963.4lsr5

Bad clamps and a bad rad cap are the main culprit in my opinion on why the vented cap setup can’t maintain a full rad.

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Bad clamps mostly have leaks. I believe the bad cap is why they wont pull from the reserve tank.

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brillo_76 · 11-17-2019, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toyotaspeed90

Alright, so... 1997 3.4, 4x4, manual.

I call Toyota and ask for price and availability. They give me a price and tell me Tuesday (last Friday). Price was lower than the Napa price for a Denso and only a few more dollars than the Napa brand.

I verify...

"This is for a manual, right? I don't want the trans cooler." They verify they loaded as a manual and check the diagram - no cooler.

Ok, great. "Oh, and does it come with a cap? If not, do you have them? It's just a small 13psi cap"

They verify - "yes. it comes with the cap, we have those as well".

So I order it.

Get it home - it had the AT trans cooler and NO cap.

I call. They scramble, then tell me that's the only radiator. I tell them it's disappointing.

I mention there's no cap. "Are you sure? It shows the cap comes with".

I verify, tell them the part number. They ask to put me on hold.

I look up on Toyo DIY - different part number on the radiator, but it only crosses to the one I have- damn.

They come back about 5 minutes later and say they had to dig through multiple service bulletins but that the cap doesn't come with.

So in the end I pay Toyota prices for, what I would consider to be the wrong radiator, and it's missing pieces from what I was quoted. They "gave me a deal" and knocked $10 off the cap price.

I also decided to replace the heater lines under the hood. When I did the TB I decided they were weeping but ok and looked to be a PITA so didnt fo them at that time. They didn't make me wrong. I used Napa hoses since Toyota pricing wawas way overkill.

Photos of heater lines before/after, a way to the lower bolts without removing anything, and the part number/radiator.

Also photo of the very used RADKITPLUSA....

I have never seen an OEM radiator come with a cap. Also you are 100% correct the manuals dont have a trans cooler. You must have some really interesting characters in your local dealer parts department. Maybe it was their first day. :/

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toyotaspeed90 · 11-17-2019, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brillo_76

I have never seen an OEM radiator come with a cap. Also you are 100% correct the manuals dont have a trans cooler. You must have some really interesting characters in your local dealer parts department. Maybe it was their first day. :/

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Nope, the usuals.

What I meant was that the manual version of the radiator without the cooler is no longer available- the part that is in their schematics now interchanges to the new number that is for the automatics with the cooler.

Check Toyo DIY if you don't believe me...

Bad Luck · 11-18-2019, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brillo_76

I have never seen an OEM radiator come with a cap. Also you are 100% correct the manuals dont have a trans cooler. You must have some really interesting characters in your local dealer parts department. Maybe it was their first day. :/

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Apparently when Toyota switched OEM radiators (and part numbers) they now use the same one for manual and automatic. Radiator & Components for 2000 Toyota 4Runner | Toyota Parts

phattyduck · 11-18-2019, 03:20 PM

Just leave the shipping caps on the trans cooler connections and move on. It won't hurt anything being there. Or use it as a power steering cooler?

-Charlie

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