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Old 11-13-2019, 02:20 PM #31
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Originally Posted by T4R2014 View Post
Does it really? Both take more time than you'd think to warm up. Even with driving around for twenty minutes on a cold winter day the coolant will be lukewarm at best. I would think the coolant warms up the ATF faster and then maintains the temps.
You might be right. It was always explained to me that the trans generates a ton of heat from all the friction and slipping of the torque converter.

Regardless, it's clear the heat exchanger in the radiator serves an important purpose of regulating transmission temps at both ends of the scale. Which is why I stand by my vote to not bypass the rad.
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Old 11-13-2019, 05:02 PM #32
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Originally Posted by absalom View Post
You might be right. It was always explained to me that the trans generates a ton of heat from all the friction and slipping of the torque converter.

Regardless, it's clear the heat exchanger in the radiator serves an important purpose of regulating transmission temps at both ends of the scale. Which is why I stand by my vote to not bypass the rad.
The bottom tank temperature is nearly completely unregulated. It is the last place to heat up, and is only has hot as the 'leftover' heat that hasn't been pulled out by the engine fan. So, in some cases fairly warm (hot day, AC on) and in others quite cold (Yukon in winter)...

I do agree that the bottom tank cooler is quite efficient though. For its size, it does a great job.

-Charlie
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Old 11-13-2019, 05:29 PM #33
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Quote:



I do agree that the bottom tank cooler is quite efficient though. For its size, it does a great job.



-Charlie
I only wish Denso would have made their radiator impossible to milkshake.


That trans cooler tube should be copper nickel or stainless steel so that it can not develop a leak into the antifreeze.

However, the radiator would be significantly more expensive. That would not bother me to have a $300 radiator that never would leak.

I guess there are $600 radiator that's OEM as well. However, it's not leak proof or it would state that.


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Old 11-14-2019, 03:01 AM #34
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Originally Posted by phattyduck View Post
The bottom tank temperature is nearly completely unregulated. It is the last place to heat up, and is only has hot as the 'leftover' heat that hasn't been pulled out by the engine fan. So, in some cases fairly warm (hot day, AC on) and in others quite cold (Yukon in winter)...

I do agree that the bottom tank cooler is quite efficient though. For its size, it does a great job.

-Charlie
I think we're talking about two different things
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Old 11-14-2019, 01:34 PM #35
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Originally Posted by brillo_76 View Post
I only wish Denso would have made their radiator impossible to milkshake.


That trans cooler tube should be copper nickel or stainless steel so that it can not develop a leak into the antifreeze.

However, the radiator would be significantly more expensive. That would not bother me to have a $300 radiator that never would leak.

I guess there are $600 radiator that's OEM as well. However, it's not leak proof or it would state that.


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I'm surprised that 'milkshakeable' radiators are even still a thing.
I understand OEM fit for older cars limits the ability to design a new system, etc, but I'm still seeing reports of newish (even less than 10 years old) vehicles that have the same issue. The only cars that seem to be completely free of such an issue are the one that have stock standalone tranny coolers. Those are usually only found stock on newer transverse engine vehicles and heavy duty trucks. It seems like most longitudinal engine vehicles get the shaft here.

I was looking through a lot of reviews and consumer reports when buying an SUV for my wife a few months back and found that near every SUV/Truck had this issue, especially in the mid 2000s. It was deemed one of the highest causes for 'lack of initial quality' for pretty much every car maker out there. That and too small 'warping' brakes.

That surprised the hell out of me. I'd think that the downside to such a design would have been made readily apparent just a few years in when people started complaining, but I guess not. Surely it's cheaper to at least engineer the piping a little thicker or make it rust resistant than to have to deal with thousands of blown transmissions under warranty. That, and pissed-off non-return customers.

I mean, most Nissan trucks and SUVs came with an extra tranny cooler, but it was piped inline. One of the first mods that any Nissan forum tells you to do is to put it completely in bypass. Outside of extreme wheeling or towing, they say that the tranny stays cool enough with the stock cooler in bypass.

Last edited by AntleredRuin; 11-14-2019 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 11-14-2019, 01:46 PM #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by absalom View Post
Regardless, it's clear the heat exchanger in the radiator serves an important purpose of regulating transmission temps at both ends of the scale. Which is why I stand by my vote to not bypass the rad.
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Originally Posted by absalom View Post
I think we're talking about two different things
I think we are. The bottom tank of the radiator is unregulated for temperature. It doesn't heat up the trans fluid faster than a an external cooler, and doesn't cool it more than an external cooler. It is outside the thermostat controlled portion of the cooling system (unlike the engine oil cooler, that does help regulate oil temperature). The only thing sort-of regulating temperature at the bottom of the radiator is the fan clutch...

That said, I still would recommend using the stock cooling loop (and do use it myself) unless you have a reason for more cooling.

-Charlie
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Old 11-14-2019, 02:30 PM #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phattyduck View Post
...
unless you have a reason for more cooling.

-Charlie
Yes, in my case, towing (just 3000#) in Texas' very common 105+ heat during stop/start driving in town.

Using the OEM trans cooling + external trans cooler + 2150CFM fan over external trans cooler is the Only way to keep the trans under 200 consistently.

Previous to the external cooler and fan, trans would reach 248 on Davis mountain passes (EZ mountains) and about 235 in town. Of course I didn't like that at all.

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Old 11-14-2019, 04:52 PM #38
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Originally Posted by phattyduck View Post
I think we are. The bottom tank of the radiator is unregulated for temperature. It doesn't heat up the trans fluid faster than a an external cooler, and doesn't cool it more than an external cooler. It is outside the thermostat controlled portion of the cooling system (unlike the engine oil cooler, that does help regulate oil temperature). The only thing sort-of regulating temperature at the bottom of the radiator is the fan clutch...

That said, I still would recommend using the stock cooling loop (and do use it myself) unless you have a reason for more cooling.

-Charlie
The coolant interfacing with the ATF in the rad also has a regulatory effect on trans temps as well. If that weren’t the case, they’d share separate coolers. The part I’m not 100% on is whether the ATF warms the coolant or vice versa (after the vehicle is first started).
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Old 11-14-2019, 05:12 PM #39
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Originally Posted by absalom View Post
The coolant interfacing with the ATF in the rad also has a regulatory effect on trans temps as well. If that weren’t the case, they’d share separate coolers. The part I’m not 100% on is whether the ATF warms the coolant or vice versa (after the vehicle is first started).
I guess it depends on how you drive, and how long you let your truck idle when you first start it.
If you gun it instantly, I'd assume the tranny would heat up faster (but your cold engine wouldn't like it), and if you idle for a minute or 2, then the coolant would warm the tranny fluid.
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Old 11-14-2019, 05:52 PM #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntleredRuin View Post
I'm surprised that 'milkshakeable' radiators are even still a thing.
I understand OEM fit for older cars limits the ability to design a new system, etc, but I'm still seeing reports of newish (even less than 10 years old) vehicles that have the same issue. The only cars that seem to be completely free of such an issue are the one that have stock standalone tranny coolers. Those are usually only found stock on newer transverse engine vehicles and heavy duty trucks. It seems like most longitudinal engine vehicles get the shaft here.

I was looking through a lot of reviews and consumer reports when buying an SUV for my wife a few months back and found that near every SUV/Truck had this issue, especially in the mid 2000s. It was deemed one of the highest causes for 'lack of initial quality' for pretty much every car maker out there. That and too small 'warping' brakes.

That surprised the hell out of me. I'd think that the downside to such a design would have been made readily apparent just a few years in when people started complaining, but I guess not. Surely it's cheaper to at least engineer the piping a little thicker or make it rust resistant than to have to deal with thousands of blown transmissions under warranty. That, and pissed-off non-return customers.

I mean, most Nissan trucks and SUVs came with an extra tranny cooler, but it was piped inline. One of the first mods that any Nissan forum tells you to do is to put it completely in bypass. Outside of extreme wheeling or towing, they say that the tranny stays cool enough with the stock cooler in bypass.
The manual 4 runners don't need a trans cooler..

Yes I can see folks wanting to bypass the inner transmission cooler for a safety guard but honestly, we never really should have had to in the first place. No radiator should have ever milked.

I am pretty sure they could have designed the radiator that is could not happen as well.. Especially, in the replacement radiators..:/

I really think it comes down to cost and vehicle lifespan. Most Mfg don't care if the ride will last 10 years. If they can save $10 a part they will and that is probably want gets the consumer. ;(
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Old 11-14-2019, 06:53 PM #41
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The manual 4 runners don't need a trans cooler..(
My manual trans Camry with Celica GT4 drivetrain has a transmission cooler! (it has an oil pump, cooling loop and squirters for the synchros - all OEM Toyota)

So, not *all* manual transmissions have no oil cooler

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Old 11-14-2019, 11:04 PM #42
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Originally Posted by phattyduck View Post
My manual trans Camry with Celica GT4 drivetrain has a transmission cooler! (it has an oil pump, cooling loop and squirters for the synchros - all OEM Toyota)

So, not *all* manual transmissions have no oil cooler

-Charlie
That's interesting. Is it a mechanical pump? I looked up R series transmission coolers and many seem to use an electric pump.
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Old 11-15-2019, 11:11 AM #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phattyduck View Post
My manual trans Camry with Celica GT4 drivetrain has a transmission cooler! (it has an oil pump, cooling loop and squirters for the synchros - all OEM Toyota)

So, not *all* manual transmissions have no oil cooler

-Charlie
Correct some do..Hence why I stated manual 4 runner 3rd gens..

Wouldn't your Camry and Celica have trans axles too which would be a transmission and differential combinations.

I was never fortunate enough to have a standard camry. I have however had an engine and transmission out of a 90 Camry swapped and done with using a tree in the yard.. However it was an auto.
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Old 11-15-2019, 01:31 PM #44
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That's interesting. Is it a mechanical pump? I looked up R series transmission coolers and many seem to use an electric pump.
Yeah, mechanical gerotor style driven off the center differential. It only pumps while the car is moving.

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Correct some do..Hence why I stated manual 4 runner 3rd gens..

Wouldn't your Camry and Celica have trans axles too which would be a transmission and differential combinations.
Yeah, transaxle - with 5 forward gears, two differentials (front and center), rear angle drive *and* a viscous coupling unit all sharing the same lube. Lots of heat as manual transmission go, and it was a rally homologation drivetrain, so lots of extra 'bits' are included that wouldn't normally be needed on a street car.

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Old 11-15-2019, 04:31 PM #45
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Yeah, transaxle - with 5 forward gears, two differentials (front and center), rear angle drive *and* a viscous coupling unit all sharing the same lube. Lots of heat as manual transmission go, and it was a rally homologation drivetrain, so lots of extra 'bits' are included that wouldn't normally be needed on a street car.

-Charlie
It would have to be with all that going on. Its more of a hybrid fluid with one cooling system then separate components

The 2 downsides i see from this type of setup is:

1) contamination destroys everything

2) more seals more chances of developing a leak and with a system like that.

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