12-07-2019, 12:41 AM
|
#31
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Dayton, OR
Posts: 3,042
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Dayton, OR
Posts: 3,042
|
Quite literally the only major hurdle you're going to run into is an oil pan that'll clear the front diff. I don't think anything really exists that'll bolt on and drop in, so it's going to either be modified from a gto pan or more likely built from scratch. There are plenty of Tacoma based crawlers and truggies running LS based engines and solid front axles, everything else is easy enough.
Transmissions you have a ton of options, the R150F could feasibly handle a stock LS engine and adapters are available. You can run a divorced transfer case setup out of an early Ford truck off of any chevy transmission, Th400, 700R4, 4L60/80, etc.
The thing that would turn me off of this kind of swap though is the fact that it's never going to be perfectly mated into the 4Runner itself. That obviously doesn't matter when you're talking about a rig built to bash on in the trails and mud, but a daily driver isn't something I'd want to swap.
If I were ever to swap an engine into a 4Runner and keep it all relatively factory otherwise, it makes more sense to me to go with a Toyota engine from the same era, that way things can be made to work like they were supposed to be that way to begin with. A 2UZ or JZ are both viable options but are just now really starting to be explored in depth.
Really though I don't think it's necessary, both the 5VZ and 3RZ are reliable, adequate for the chassis, and respond somewhat well to forced induction.
Sent from my JSN-L23 using Tapatalk
__________________
'97 3RZ 5 Speed "FrankenRunner" ( Build Thread) - Dormant
The "shitmobile" 500$ 3RZ Auto 4Runner - ( Saved from the Scrapyard: Resurrecting a 500$ 3rd Gen
02 Tacoma Double Cab, mid-travel, locked, armored, supercharged and riced. (Longbed and 5 speed in the works)
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
12-07-2019, 01:13 AM
|
#32
|
|
Elite Member
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Citrus Heights, California
Age: 36
Posts: 7,337
Real Name: Jerod
|
|
Elite Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Citrus Heights, California
Age: 36
Posts: 7,337
Real Name: Jerod
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderFire
The thing that would turn me off of this kind of swap though is the fact that it's never going to be perfectly mated into the 4Runner itself. That obviously doesn't matter when you're talking about a rig built to bash on in the trails and mud, but a daily driver isn't something I'd want to swap.
|
Yup, neighbor down the street has a 3rd Gen he turned into a rock crawler with 38"s. LS swap as well. It isn't street legal but has such bad road manners that he has to tow it everywhere. Not meant to be driven but once in a while.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
12-07-2019, 01:33 AM
|
#33
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 108
|
|
Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 108
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by St Runner
Someone I know did one here on island. He ended up yanking out the diff to get it to fit. Doesn't mean you couldn't get it to fit, but 400 hp does not do you much good offroad in a basic 4runner. I will try to get some pics this weekend
|
How would like double the low end torque not be beneficial? I suppose maybe not if it isnt lockered.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
12-07-2019, 01:51 PM
|
#34
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 431
|
|
Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 431
|
I totally understand what you guys are saying when you’re mentioning the LS powered 4Runners on 38” tires not being daily driveable.
But there’s no reason whatsoever to not be able to DD an LSX swapped 4Runner, if you do it correctly. Now, sure- skip the AC, throw 40’s and a solid axle under it and you will not want to drive it everywhere.
But, there’s “doing things” and “doing things right”
People are putting LS engines in everything from Miatas to mustangs these days, and keeping all the creature comforts. It’s not like a carbureted engine that loses all manners immediately
I think maintaining a 100% Toyota body harness is key to keeping OEM functionality
Then, a stand-alone computer for the engine and trans control
__________________
2000 SR5 4x4 | Geared, Locked and Fully restored OEM+ build.
Forged and Cammed 1UZ Single Turbo, Standalone ECU + Built R150 in process. Why, you ask? Because it makes no sense in this platform, and I love it!
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
12-07-2019, 04:08 PM
|
#35
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 108
|
|
Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 108
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeakSauz
I totally understand what you guys are saying when you’re mentioning the LS powered 4Runners on 38” tires not being daily driveable.
But there’s no reason whatsoever to not be able to DD an LSX swapped 4Runner, if you do it correctly. Now, sure- skip the AC, throw 40’s and a solid axle under it and you will not want to drive it everywhere.
But, there’s “doing things” and “doing things right”
People are putting LS engines in everything from Miatas to mustangs these days, and keeping all the creature comforts. It’s not like a carbureted engine that loses all manners immediately
I think maintaining a 100% Toyota body harness is key to keeping OEM functionality
Then, a stand-alone computer for the engine and trans control
|
The biggest electronic hurdle is integrating the GM ECU with the toyota cluster. Wouldn't be very hard. Other actual prob is emissions inspections. When plugged up to the OBD port, it'll read for a GM. maybe someone who can code could program the ECU to register the proper data to fool the inspection computers. Anyone fluent in C++?
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
12-07-2019, 10:23 PM
|
#36
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Dayton, OR
Posts: 3,042
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Dayton, OR
Posts: 3,042
|
People tend to oversimplify these things, and it ends up with other people thinking it's way easier than it actually is. The issues you'll run into start with the obvious, wiring, actually fitting the engine itself, etc. But then you start to go down a rabbit hole, a rabbit hole that only the most skilled and dedicated ever find the end of.
You'll run into things like making the cooling system function properly between the Toyota radiator and heater core and chevy engine, then you'll have to make sure your shifter, clutch, brake system, ABS, drivelines, fuel system, fans, etc all work, then make sure they all function in a way that is as resilient and fail proof as Toyota's design.
If you don't have extensive knowledge of these specific systems that won't happen, and even then, sometimes fitment constraints don't allow for proper clearances.
I've been down this rabbit hole when my neighbor picked up a much simpler swapped toyota, a simple 4.3 TBI chevy V6 mated to the stock R150 in a 93 pickup. We spent countless hours on finicky nonsense you'd never consider as an issue and after 2 years they gave up on it ever being anything near a daily driver. Constantly cooking starters due to header fitment, an ever temperamental clutch setup, cooling issues, wiring issues, the list goes on.
It's just not as viable as people think. You will never have it dialed in enough to be as fail proof as a stock 4runner.
Sent from my JSN-L23 using Tapatalk
__________________
'97 3RZ 5 Speed "FrankenRunner" ( Build Thread) - Dormant
The "shitmobile" 500$ 3RZ Auto 4Runner - ( Saved from the Scrapyard: Resurrecting a 500$ 3rd Gen
02 Tacoma Double Cab, mid-travel, locked, armored, supercharged and riced. (Longbed and 5 speed in the works)
Last edited by UnderFire; 12-07-2019 at 10:25 PM.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
12-07-2019, 11:17 PM
|
#37
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 108
|
|
Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 108
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderFire
People tend to oversimplify these things, and it ends up with other people thinking it's way easier than it actually is. The issues you'll run into start with the obvious, wiring, actually fitting the engine itself, etc. But then you start to go down a rabbit hole, a rabbit hole that only the most skilled and dedicated ever find the end of.
You'll run into things like making the cooling system function properly between the Toyota radiator and heater core and chevy engine, then you'll have to make sure your shifter, clutch, brake system, ABS, drivelines, fuel system, fans, etc all work, then make sure they all function in a way that is as resilient and fail proof as Toyota's design.
If you don't have extensive knowledge of these specific systems that won't happen, and even then, sometimes fitment constraints don't allow for proper clearances.
I've been down this rabbit hole when my neighbor picked up a much simpler swapped toyota, a simple 4.3 TBI chevy V6 mated to the stock R150 in a 93 pickup. We spent countless hours on finicky nonsense you'd never consider as an issue and after 2 years they gave up on it ever being anything near a daily driver. Constantly cooking starters due to header fitment, an ever temperamental clutch setup, cooling issues, wiring issues, the list goes on.
It's just not as viable as people think. You will never have it dialed in enough to be as fail proof as a stock 4runner.
Sent from my JSN-L23 using Tapatalk
|
I suppose it just seems fairly simple due to my background. I'd say 98% or more people on this forum wouldn't be able to accomplish this task. The only part of this task i am not confident in is getting a front driveshaft to a front diff.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
12-08-2019, 01:52 PM
|
#38
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2015
Location: St John Virgin Islands
Posts: 742
|
|
Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: St John Virgin Islands
Posts: 742
|
__________________
1997 SR5 4x4
R150f swap E-locked 4.30 gears
Tundra 231 brakes LC 80 rims 285/75/16
2001 SR5 4x4
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
12-08-2019, 03:20 PM
|
#39
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 431
|
|
Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 431
|
Lol, Boosted too^
Thanks for the pics!
__________________
2000 SR5 4x4 | Geared, Locked and Fully restored OEM+ build.
Forged and Cammed 1UZ Single Turbo, Standalone ECU + Built R150 in process. Why, you ask? Because it makes no sense in this platform, and I love it!
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
12-08-2019, 10:08 PM
|
#40
|
|
Elite Member
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Citrus Heights, California
Age: 36
Posts: 7,337
Real Name: Jerod
|
|
Elite Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Citrus Heights, California
Age: 36
Posts: 7,337
Real Name: Jerod
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeakSauz
I totally understand what you guys are saying when you’re mentioning the LS powered 4Runners on 38” tires not being daily driveable.
But there’s no reason whatsoever to not be able to DD an LSX swapped 4Runner, if you do it correctly. Now, sure- skip the AC, throw 40’s and a solid axle under it and you will not want to drive it everywhere.
But, there’s “doing things” and “doing things right”
People are putting LS engines in everything from Miatas to mustangs these days, and keeping all the creature comforts. It’s not like a carbureted engine that loses all manners immediately
I think maintaining a 100% Toyota body harness is key to keeping OEM functionality
Then, a stand-alone computer for the engine and trans control
|
Oh it is very possible, yes. With the right knowledge and some good parts you could make it very drivable and have enormous amount of power. But you'd also be paying in the thousands, perhaps even over $10,000 in parts and labor by that point. While it would definitely be cool and one of a kind it's probably not going to be done at that level on a 20 year old SUV that has no collector value. If one is going to put that much work and attention to detail to make it amazing, there's better platforms to do it on with more support as well.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
12-09-2019, 12:25 AM
|
#41
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 108
|
|
Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 108
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamefreakgc
Oh it is very possible, yes. With the right knowledge and some good parts you could make it very drivable and have enormous amount of power. But you'd also be paying in the thousands, perhaps even over $10,000 in parts and labor by that point. While it would definitely be cool and one of a kind it's probably not going to be done at that level on a 20 year old SUV that has no collector value. If one is going to put that much work and attention to detail to make it amazing, there's better platforms to do it on with more support as well.
|
Facts. That exhaust note and around 400hp/400tq sounds tasty without any power adders. I bet gas mileage would go up a smidge too if you kept your foot out of it.
I am still pondering the idea since I have the engine and ECU already. Junkyard pull a gm or yota tranny and tcase, fab up some engine/trans mounts, headers and exhaust, plumb and run some lines and wires, tie into the cluster, measure and order new driveshafts. It's not too complicated. Also have a TIG and a MIG, and like $20,000 in tools. I may attempt this in a year if I still have the motivation. My other cars broken atm so my 4runner is my only DD.
Last edited by Mackalicious; 12-09-2019 at 12:29 AM.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
12-09-2019, 07:50 AM
|
#42
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Iowa Colony
Posts: 327
|
|
Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Iowa Colony
Posts: 327
|
If you do any of this. Please be the pioneer and document every detail you can so others can follow in your steps.
I consider the 4runner / Tacoma the Miata of the SUV world. Simple to work on, stupid reliable and to maintain.
I wish there was more love for swaps for the 4runner. Good luck in your quest!
Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
12-09-2019, 11:00 AM
|
#43
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 431
|
|
Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 431
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by STI_MECE
If you do any of this. Please be the pioneer and document every detail you can so others can follow in your steps.
I consider the 4runner / Tacoma the Miata of the SUV world. Simple to work on, stupid reliable and to maintain.
I wish there was more love for swaps for the 4runner. Good luck in your quest!
Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
|
Amen to this. Whoever does this needs to measure every little bracket they fab up, headers, etc
Then, they could throw everything into CAD and sell complete 3rd Gen 4Runner LS Swap kits.
Kits in stages, maybe.
- Basics- just the motor mounts, hardware, headers, etc
- stage 2- above + front drive accessories, radiator, etc
- stage 3- above + harness, etc
and on and on.
Would be amazing. Although not a huge market for it, which is quite clearly the reason we dont see it today available!
__________________
2000 SR5 4x4 | Geared, Locked and Fully restored OEM+ build.
Forged and Cammed 1UZ Single Turbo, Standalone ECU + Built R150 in process. Why, you ask? Because it makes no sense in this platform, and I love it!
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
12-09-2019, 11:02 AM
|
#44
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 431
|
|
Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 431
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackalicious
Facts. That exhaust note and around 400hp/400tq sounds tasty without any power adders.
|
I just dream of a Longtravel 3rd Gen Runner sitting at a stoplight chopping away like it's about to murder something.
__________________
2000 SR5 4x4 | Geared, Locked and Fully restored OEM+ build.
Forged and Cammed 1UZ Single Turbo, Standalone ECU + Built R150 in process. Why, you ask? Because it makes no sense in this platform, and I love it!
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
12-09-2019, 12:22 PM
|
#45
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Hot Springs, AR
Posts: 4,410
Real Name: Patrick
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Hot Springs, AR
Posts: 4,410
Real Name: Patrick
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackalicious
Facts. That exhaust note and around 400hp/400tq sounds tasty without any power adders. I bet gas mileage would go up a smidge too if you kept your foot out of it.
I am still pondering the idea since I have the engine and ECU already. Junkyard pull a gm or yota tranny and tcase, fab up some engine/trans mounts, headers and exhaust, plumb and run some lines and wires, tie into the cluster, measure and order new driveshafts. It's not too complicated. Also have a TIG and a MIG, and like $20,000 in tools. I may attempt this in a year if I still have the motivation. My other cars broken atm so my 4runner is my only DD.
|
As far as the gauges in the cluster working: the speedometer works off the wheel speed sensors independent of the ecm, the coolant temp gauge for the dash is read from a different sensor than the ecm uses so it's seperate too, fuel gauge doesn't use the ecm either. I think the only gauge you would have to adapt is the tachometer which you could use a dakota digital signal converter to find the right signal for that as well.
__________________
2000 SR5 V6 Manual 4WD https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...biography.html
2000 Limited V6 Auto E-Locker Sold 3/2022
Last edited by Bad Luck; 12-09-2019 at 12:31 PM.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is On
|
|
|
|