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Old 12-31-2019, 07:49 PM #1
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Suspension feedback request

I am looking into a suspension redux on my runner. It’s a 99 and running stock. It has the high springs and I am running 265/75/16 wildpeaks with arb bumper.

I am noticing some front sag from the bumper. I have 225k so looking at a suspension overhaul, just shocks and springs. Not looking for any crazy lift or anything. I like it with the high spring height with these tires.

I just take the runner on forest service roads when I hunt, not looking to do any serious off roading or anything. Hope that helps.

Here is are some options I have in mind

ONE

Front
Bilstein 4600
OME 883

Rear
Bilstein 4600
OME 891 or Toyota 80 Series Land Cruiser Coils (48131-6A570)

I have the 4600’s already as I got a good deal from a friend on some lightly used ones.

I need some tips on if I’m making the right call. Open to other suggestions. I do t want a crazy lift but I love the current hight with these stock 99 longer springs so trying to stay in a similar range. Not lower.

TWO
Maybe I just do the springs, shocks seem fine at this time. Bad call? Trying to be thrifty.

Front
Stock Shocks
OME 883

Rear
Stock Shocks
OME 891 or Toyota 80 Series Land Cruiser Coils (48131-6A570)

THREE
I sell the 4600’s and put in just 5100’s and keep current springs then level out the front.

Any suggestions on the best route? Trying to be thrifty but also want to be smart.
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Old 01-02-2020, 08:57 AM #2
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bump
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Old 01-02-2020, 09:48 AM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowrappyo View Post
bump
You will need to make sure the rear shocks are long enough for longer springs. Most people use Tundra 5100's with 891's or FJ80 REAR shocks with FJ80 FRONT springs.
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Old 01-02-2020, 03:16 PM #4
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Option 3 is the best of the three options you gave, but isn't the best suspension option (IMO).

Springs and Shocks work together to form a system.

If you go with option 1, you will jack the rear end into the air. I think it's about 3 inches for the 891 and it's 3-5 inches for the LC 80 coils. This will give you a lot of compression from the shock, but not much extension. To correct this problem you would need to put on longer shocks in the rear. LC 5100's work on the back, but will add another problem that needs to be addressed. The LC 5100's have both a longer compression and extension length than the 4Runner 4600's. You have to extend the bumpstop to prevent the shock from bottoming out. As far as the front, I'm not sure exactly how the 883's will affect ride height with that bumper, but if you don't lift the front the same amount as the back you will have large rake on the vehicle. If the 883's level out the front, you will run into the same problem as in the rear. A lot of compression, but not much extension. Again, time to go with a new shock. Tundra 5100's are good here.

Options 2 has the same problems as Option 1.

Option 3 will allow you to keep the same ride height, but you may be sacrificing some performance from the shock. If you go with option 3, get the Tundra 5100's for the front and 4Runner 5100's for the rear. The Tundra 5100's are about the same length as the 4Runner, but you get an extra adjustment perch (5 instead of 4).
Tundra (5 perch) vs 4Runner (4 perch) 5100's
Extended 18.35" vs 18.27"
Compressed 13.23" vs 13.66"
Total Stroke 5.12" vs 4.61"

The possible problems with option 3 are:
Have the rear springs sagged? You said you like the ride height, so that may not be an issue.
Are you planning on adding any extra weight to the back? Heavy bumper, hitch carrier, towing? If yes, then you probably would want to upgrade the springs at this time, so options 3 may not be the best.


Option 4 would be to do a full suspension overhaul. Both shocks and springs.
Front:
Tundra 5100's (24-261425)
880/883/884, ToyTec 112-620, or Wheeler T1 (pros and cons to each...)
Rear:
FJ 5100's (33-187174)
890/891, LC 80, SuperFlex (again, pro and cons to each...)

Possible problems with option 4:
Lifts about 2-3 inches (some people think this is a good thing, but from what you said I listed it as a problem)
Need extended bump stops for the rear.
Best to add a Panhard Correction Kit as the lift changes the geometry of the panhard bar.
May need extended brake line for rear.
Some vehicles cannot be aligned, so could possibly need new adjustable front upper control arms.
Any time you change the angle on suspension and drive components, you start to run into other things wearing out (CV boots may crack because of new angles, ball joints start wearing at different places, u-joints, etc.)

In full disclosure, I run Option 4 with Wheeler T1's & SuperFlex. My goal was to get the most flex with least amount of lift for the cheapest price.

Hope this helps your decision.
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Old 01-02-2020, 04:33 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XtremeAdventurer View Post
Option 3 is the best of the three options you gave, but isn't the best suspension option (IMO).

Springs and Shocks work together to form a system.

If you go with option 1, you will jack the rear end into the air. I think it's about 3 inches for the 891 and it's 3-5 inches for the LC 80 coils. This will give you a lot of compression from the shock, but not much extension. To correct this problem you would need to put on longer shocks in the rear. LC 5100's work on the back, but will add another problem that needs to be addressed. The LC 5100's have both a longer compression and extension length than the 4Runner 4600's. You have to extend the bumpstop to prevent the shock from bottoming out. As far as the front, I'm not sure exactly how the 883's will affect ride height with that bumper, but if you don't lift the front the same amount as the back you will have large rake on the vehicle. If the 883's level out the front, you will run into the same problem as in the rear. A lot of compression, but not much extension. Again, time to go with a new shock. Tundra 5100's are good here.

Options 2 has the same problems as Option 1.

Option 3 will allow you to keep the same ride height, but you may be sacrificing some performance from the shock. If you go with option 3, get the Tundra 5100's for the front and 4Runner 5100's for the rear. The Tundra 5100's are about the same length as the 4Runner, but you get an extra adjustment perch (5 instead of 4).
Tundra (5 perch) vs 4Runner (4 perch) 5100's
Extended 18.35" vs 18.27"
Compressed 13.23" vs 13.66"
Total Stroke 5.12" vs 4.61"

The possible problems with option 3 are:
Have the rear springs sagged? You said you like the ride height, so that may not be an issue.
Are you planning on adding any extra weight to the back? Heavy bumper, hitch carrier, towing? If yes, then you probably would want to upgrade the springs at this time, so options 3 may not be the best.


Option 4 would be to do a full suspension overhaul. Both shocks and springs.
Front:
Tundra 5100's (24-261425)
880/883/884, ToyTec 112-620, or Wheeler T1 (pros and cons to each...)
Rear:
FJ 5100's (33-187174)
890/891, LC 80, SuperFlex (again, pro and cons to each...)

Possible problems with option 4:
Lifts about 2-3 inches (some people think this is a good thing, but from what you said I listed it as a problem)
Need extended bump stops for the rear.
Best to add a Panhard Correction Kit as the lift changes the geometry of the panhard bar.
May need extended brake line for rear.
Some vehicles cannot be aligned, so could possibly need new adjustable front upper control arms.
Any time you change the angle on suspension and drive components, you start to run into other things wearing out (CV boots may crack because of new angles, ball joints start wearing at different places, u-joints, etc.)

In full disclosure, I run Option 4 with Wheeler T1's & SuperFlex. My goal was to get the most flex with least amount of lift for the cheapest price.

Hope this helps your decision.
This is super helpful. Springs are fine...at least currently. I do anticipate them to go at some point because they are OEM but seem fine now.

I really appreciate your thoughts on my initial options. Option 4 might be the route I go because it also looks like you wanted something similar.

Will keep that in mind. Interested to hear what others say but thank you.

Looking into option 4. How has option 4 treated you? Any photos to share?
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Old 01-08-2020, 12:22 AM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowrappyo View Post
Looking into option 4. How has option 4 treated you? Any photos to share?

This has treated me great. My wife loves the ride. It performs great on trails. We did the first 2 miles of the Rubicon this past summer and it handled everything just fine. (Only the first 2 miles as it was still snowed in past that point.)

Picture was just this evening.
Attached Images
Suspension feedback request-21fac0ed-4285-42fe-b232-be15175272a7-jpg 
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Old 01-08-2020, 11:12 AM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowrappyo View Post
This is super helpful. Springs are fine...at least currently. I do anticipate them to go at some point because they are OEM but seem fine now.

I really appreciate your thoughts on my initial options. Option 4 might be the route I go because it also looks like you wanted something similar.

Will keep that in mind. Interested to hear what others say but thank you.

Looking into option 4. How has option 4 treated you? Any photos to share?
Lots of good advice listed above. At 225,000 miles you should budget for replacing everything up front (unless any of it is relatively new).
-Upper ball joints
-Lower ball joints
-Outer tie rods (inners should be good)
-This is a great time to do the control arm bushings as well.
-If you lift at all, get the PCK!
I did my lift at 330,000 and ended up replacing all of that plus the upper control arms and the CV axles. Better to be ready for the worst (even if you only buy parts as you need them) versus taking it apart and not having money to buy extra stuff.

I bought the Sonoran Steel kit with 5100's up front and Tokico's LC's in the back and it has done me well.
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Last edited by Coward; 01-08-2020 at 11:13 AM. Reason: grammar
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Old 01-08-2020, 11:18 AM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coward View Post
Lots of good advice listed above. At 225,000 miles you should budget for replacing everything up front (unless any of it is relatively new).
-Upper ball joints
-Lower ball joints
-Outer tie rods (inners should be good)
-This is a great time to do the control arm bushings as well.
-If you lift at all, get the PCK!
I did my lift at 330,000 and ended up replacing all of that plus the upper control arms and the CV axles. Better to be ready for the worst (even if you only buy parts as you need them) versus taking it apart and not having money to buy extra stuff.

I bought the Sonoran Steel kit with 5100's up front and Tokico's LC's in the back and it has done me well.
Thanks!

Any photos to share?

Any center of rim to fender measurements?
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Old 01-08-2020, 12:17 PM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowrappyo View Post
Thanks!

Any photos to share?

Any center of rim to fender measurements?
Before and after. I don't have hub to fender but I do have ground to fender with the same tires before and 10 days after the lift.
Front was 34.5 and then 37.5 inches
Rear was 35.25 and then 39.25 inches
Both have settled I would say 1/2 inch in 3 years.
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Old 01-08-2020, 01:54 PM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowrappyo View Post
I am looking into a suspension redux on my runner. It’s a 99 and running stock. It has the high springs and I am running 265/75/16 wildpeaks with arb bumper.

I am noticing some front sag from the bumper. I have 225k so looking at a suspension overhaul, just shocks and springs. Not looking for any crazy lift or anything. I like it with the high spring height with these tires.

I just take the runner on forest service roads when I hunt, not looking to do any serious off roading or anything. Hope that helps.

Here is are some options I have in mind

ONE

Front
Bilstein 4600
OME 883

Rear
Bilstein 4600
OME 891 or Toyota 80 Series Land Cruiser Coils (48131-6A570)

I have the 4600’s already as I got a good deal from a friend on some lightly used ones.

I need some tips on if I’m making the right call. Open to other suggestions. I do t want a crazy lift but I love the current hight with these stock 99 longer springs so trying to stay in a similar range. Not lower.

TWO
Maybe I just do the springs, shocks seem fine at this time. Bad call? Trying to be thrifty.

Front
Stock Shocks
OME 883

Rear
Stock Shocks
OME 891 or Toyota 80 Series Land Cruiser Coils (48131-6A570)

THREE
I sell the 4600’s and put in just 5100’s and keep current springs then level out the front.

Any suggestions on the best route? Trying to be thrifty but also want to be smart.

if your trying to stay about the same and just make up for the bumper my opinion is just get Tundra 5100's and preload your 99 coils. a bit to make up for the weight. That will be the cheapest option. Plus you have a little flexibility with the height adjustments.
I hear the Tokio blacks from the LC are a little stiff, unless you are running extra weight in the back, and are for lifted vehicles. So maybe throw your 4600's in the back and see how you like it.

Spring sag in the rear is real for sure. You can use the 5th gen rear springs and that will lift the rear slightly/make up for sag.

50 bucks for rear 5th gen springs
170~ for tundra 5100's
Same front coils
4600's for the rear (you already have)
60 bucks for the alignment.
you do all the work.

under 300. not bad

Also I agree. do you lower ball joints NOW! if you have not done them yet. Failure happens and when it does it is catastrophic. Got mine with 265 k and had to do lower ball joints, steering rack, lower control arm bushings just get get it aligned. ouch
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Old 01-08-2020, 03:02 PM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coward View Post
Lots of good advice listed above. At 225,000 miles you should budget for replacing everything up front (unless any of it is relatively new).
-Upper ball joints
-Lower ball joints
-Outer tie rods (inners should be good)
-This is a great time to do the control arm bushings as well.
-If you lift at all, get the PCK!
I did my lift at 330,000 and ended up replacing all of that plus the upper control arms and the CV axles. Better to be ready for the worst (even if you only buy parts as you need them) versus taking it apart and not having money to buy extra stuff.

I bought the Sonoran Steel kit with 5100's up front and Tokico's LC's in the back and it has done me well.
PCK is a must ,follow this advice. I didnt realize how bad my truck was until I got that done and I only had ~1" lift in the rear.
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Old 01-08-2020, 04:16 PM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4runnerfiend View Post
if your trying to stay about the same and just make up for the bumper my opinion is just get Tundra 5100's and preload your 99 coils. a bit to make up for the weight. That will be the cheapest option. Plus you have a little flexibility with the height adjustments.
I hear the Tokio blacks from the LC are a little stiff, unless you are running extra weight in the back, and are for lifted vehicles. So maybe throw your 4600's in the back and see how you like it.

Spring sag in the rear is real for sure. You can use the 5th gen rear springs and that will lift the rear slightly/make up for sag.

50 bucks for rear 5th gen springs
170~ for tundra 5100's
Same front coils
4600's for the rear (you already have)
60 bucks for the alignment.
you do all the work.

under 300. not bad

Also I agree. do you lower ball joints NOW! if you have not done them yet. Failure happens and when it does it is catastrophic. Got mine with 265 k and had to do lower ball joints, steering rack, lower control arm bushings just get get it aligned. ouch

I actually think this is the exact route I will go. I really like option 4 that was suggested above if I was looking for a lift but I'm not. No need for me.

I really appreciate this input. Thank you!

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