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Old 01-18-2020, 06:25 PM #46
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Part of why people are loosing or, ditching their 4r is because of the other inattentive drivers who are out there on the same roads. People get into a wreck and instead of fixing, owners choose to take the money and ditch. And insurance companies don't care if you loved your 4r and want to keep it.

The plan is to keep my 4r for a least another 200k miles.
In the past month I've been rear ended while stopped at the traffic light by a driver looking at her phone. And backed into by a guy who was backing into a gas pump ahead of me. The F150 had a back up cam and proximity sensors and still managed to make contact into my front bumper.

But ya stuff like this is taking out our beloved 3rd gens at a good rate. The evidence is all the 3rd gens I see at the recycling yards.
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Old 01-18-2020, 06:49 PM #47
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I predict that the ratio of manual transmission t4r's to autobox t4r's will increase in the future. Which is a good thing.
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Old 01-18-2020, 07:06 PM #48
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when I lived in Oregon, there were lots of people who cared for them.
Now I live in Alaska, I don't see many 3rd gens. and the ones I do , the majority are old farts like me that drive and respect a good car. I do see a few nice tricked out ones, so I know that there are people that want to have and keep a great 4runner. There is one really nice one. red, arb bumpers, lifted, lights snorkel...but most look bone stock. Mine has slight mods but no one up here would notice. In Oregon people did.
Wrecking yards are few here, and last fall I walked thorough one and not a single 1st-4th gen.
Im gonna be back in Oreogn in March ( for 2 week)and I will hit several wrecking yards for odd ball stuff...or great finds.

I think one of the things that kills 4 runners now is that they are somewhat affordable..people who need a 4wd ask around and hear about how great the 3rd gen is. they buy it, run it into the ground. don't want to spend money fixing and trash em and go get another "beater".

This 4runner has been one of my favorite rigs, and I will drive it till I drop. Its a vehicle I can maintain...thanks to this forum...Its been in heavy high mountain snow in Oregon...far back forest service roads. dry lands of deserts ( all related to me being a park ranger before I retired) and now here with me in Alaska where its been to the southern tip of Alaska, to above the artic circle, and now ..with proper prep...again thanks to help from this forum...its being driven daily in temps ranging from zero to minus 38 . Soon it will be spring..and back to exploring Alaska.
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Old 01-18-2020, 07:17 PM #49
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Very interesting reads on this thread. All the different points of view as well as areas of the country and even world for that matter.

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Old 01-19-2020, 02:02 PM #50
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The 5VZFE has gone over a million miles in some cases so it is reliable. As long as you attend to the well known catastrophic killers of these things -- frame / axle rot, LBJ, pink milkshake, rotted out rear heater lines that dump all your coolant, it should last a long time, unless you are unlucky like the earlier person who threw a rod. And plasticky parts will break with age that will need to be replaced on an ongoing basis, but that will cost less than buying a new SUV which won't be as good as these.

Most people won't tend to the above catastrophic issues so their trucks will end up in the junkyard soon. Then only enthusiasts will own them which means they will become collector's items.

This will happen first in the east where they rust out and later in California.
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Old 01-19-2020, 03:45 PM #51
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Morning everyone, first post. Just bought my first 4runner a 98, 2WD AT. From the OG owner with a stack of paper work N original docs! In really solid condition CA bay area it's whole life, 115K for $5500.. I thought this was close to a steal! I look forward to making it my own but OG styling! Thanks to all of you for the great reading N content here!!! This will be on the road easy another 20 years! Already looking for another. I have wanted a third gen since they came out. Better late then never... This will be with me to thee end. Along with my 94 Silverado N my XR400!
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Old 01-19-2020, 06:00 PM #52
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I believe the decision to keep an older vehicle a lot of times comes down to whether or not you do your own wrenching. When you do your own wrenching, you'll do the motor swap, or trans swap because you're not paying high labor rates. When you have to pay the labor for big jobs like this, and then you figure out how much the vehicle is worth, that's when non-wrenchers will just throw in the towel and junk it.

When I think of all the things I've done to my 98 4runner, I would be into it more than double if I had to pay the going labor rates around me. My girlfriend has a little BMW Z3 Convertible Roadster. She bought the thing for around $7500 from a friend. I pleaded with her not to buy it but she did. I've replaced the front struts on it. I had to replace the water pump. Her reverse shift fork went bad and I took it to a friends place who has a lift and we pulled the trans, he rebuilt it for me and then we put the trans back in. The most recent repair was a starter replacement and I amazed myself that I was able to get the freaking thing out. There was lots of cursing involved but I was successful.

Out of curiosity, I called a couple BMW dealerships in my area, the Bay Area of California. One dealership quoted me around $1400 for the job. Another one quoted me $1200. Their labor rates were $220/hour and $240/hour. I got the starter online for $200 and basically saved my girlfriend $1000 - $1200. My local Toyota dealer charges $200/hour for labor. The labor rates are insane in my area. No doubt, if I was a dick and didn't help my girlfriend out, she would have either junked the vehicle by now or have a lot less money in the bank. The transmission fix alone probably saved her $3,000-$4000.

After a few costly repairs at a dealership, I could see people saying screw it and they'd rather put that money towards a new vehicle even though they are now going to have a car payment.
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Old 01-19-2020, 08:02 PM #53
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I suspect we're going to see prices rise in the future - as beat up soccer mom examples are crushed, and well-maintained trucks become less available - which is a good thing. It's a great platform, fantastic lines, good size, durable engine.
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Old 01-19-2020, 09:10 PM #54
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While i don't have any hard data just scanning Craigs List. I think there is a increase in price on the nice ones even ones with trashed inside and beat up paint looks like they are going up too. The people that have them and love them like we do will help keep them on the road as long as possible.

My nephew asked me to build one for him after I built one for his Step mother I had to turn him down for two reasons one was the time factor on my part but the other reason is I didn't think really take care of it and would wreck it or sell it after I did all the work. If he were there to help with the work I would have reconsidered.

I don't mind putting the money and time to keep these up first I like the design for use and durability. The other main reason is a new one is about 45,000.00 after all the other cost here in California I have better ways to spend my money.
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Old 01-19-2020, 10:54 PM #55
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I think you are looking at this the wrong way. The golden age is actually just beginning. It is no longer just another used car. The really awful ones are disappearing and what is left is the nicest around and they go for good money. They are also leaving that phase of craigslist trail rig much like the 1st gen 4Runners did over a decade ago.
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Old 01-20-2020, 12:12 AM #56
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Doesn't the 5vz-fe easily do 400k+ if maintained? I've seen a couple over 400k and even that legendary one at 600 something.
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Old 01-20-2020, 12:13 AM #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T4R2014 View Post
I think you are looking at this the wrong way. The golden age is actually just beginning. It is no longer just another used car. The really awful ones are disappearing and what is left is the nicest around and they go for good money. They are also leaving that phase of craigslist trail rig much like the 1st gen 4Runners did over a decade ago.
This.
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Old 01-20-2020, 12:23 AM #58
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Doesn't the 5vz-fe easily do 400k+ if maintained? I've seen a couple over 400k and even that legendary one at 600 something.
Yes, but the maintenance cost on a vehicle to reach extremely high mileage, all while it is slowly deteriorating is a turn off for anyone but a true enthusiast. That being said, there's 3 3rd gen 4Runners I regularly service at work right around 350-380k, and one that I haven't seen in a while but was sitting at 560k.

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Old 01-20-2020, 12:28 AM #59
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I haven't read through all this, but if you're right, it's probably because people like to DRIVE them. The entire population keeps aging, and in places like where I live, they rust apart at the frames. Mine did at 265k, even though the drivetrain had exhibited no problems. So hopefully there are enough people with the means of keeping/restoring these that they live on for many years.
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Old 01-20-2020, 12:49 AM #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbtim View Post
I believe the decision to keep an older vehicle a lot of times comes down to whether or not you do your own wrenching. When you do your own wrenching, you'll do the motor swap, or trans swap because you're not paying high labor rates. When you have to pay the labor for big jobs like this, and then you figure out how much the vehicle is worth, that's when non-wrenchers will just throw in the towel and junk it.

When I think of all the things I've done to my 98 4runner, I would be into it more than double if I had to pay the going labor rates around me. My girlfriend has a little BMW Z3 Convertible Roadster. She bought the thing for around $7500 from a friend. I pleaded with her not to buy it but she did. I've replaced the front struts on it. I had to replace the water pump. Her reverse shift fork went bad and I took it to a friends place who has a lift and we pulled the trans, he rebuilt it for me and then we put the trans back in. The most recent repair was a starter replacement and I amazed myself that I was able to get the freaking thing out. There was lots of cursing involved but I was successful.

Out of curiosity, I called a couple BMW dealerships in my area, the Bay Area of California. One dealership quoted me around $1400 for the job. Another one quoted me $1200. Their labor rates were $220/hour and $240/hour. I got the starter online for $200 and basically saved my girlfriend $1000 - $1200. My local Toyota dealer charges $200/hour for labor. The labor rates are insane in my area. No doubt, if I was a dick and didn't help my girlfriend out, she would have either junked the vehicle by now or have a lot less money in the bank. The transmission fix alone probably saved her $3,000-$4000.

After a few costly repairs at a dealership, I could see people saying screw it and they'd rather put that money towards a new vehicle even though they are now going to have a car payment.
I agree, but my perspective is a little different. I've done nearly all my own wrenching, the bulk of which amounted to standard maintenance stuff. I've bought only Toyotas since 1982, most of them used. As a result, I've never been involved in any sort of engine or transmission work. I had my 1988 4Runner's clutch replaced at a dealership (preventive maintenance) because I didn't have the wherewithal to do the job myself. That vehicle also developed a head gasket leak at 305k miles (22R-E), and I decided that I couldn't invest the time/money on it, so I got rid of it. Other than that, no engine/transmission failures on any Toyota ever. To date this is about 1.3 million miles.

I'm 61 years old now, and still quite capable of wrenching. BUT, I don't have the tools for every repair, nor the facilities (gravel driveway). Plus a tad bit less desire, dang it. So I'll likely gravitate away from the more involved repairs as time goes on, and as you indicate, will have newer vehicles if possible, rather than maintaining old ones.
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