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Old 02-13-2020, 12:49 AM #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plcfcng View Post
You are kind of conflating two problems if you have a parasitic drain thats one problem if you have a idea what it is disable that item or leg (pull the bulb or the fuse) This will stop the battery drain. As long as the item is not part of the running circuit cut it out and don't worry about it for now.

Then go back to my previous comment and determine if it is spark or fuel. If you don't you will be running in circles instead of narrowing the problem. If you have the manual there is a diagnosis tic flow chart to follow.

There are many reasons why a engine won't start but it starts. If it cranks and has compression then you look at fuel and spark (as said before)

If no fuel you look at pump, or the fuel injection system (but you don't know)

Spark ECM, Timing belt, crank sensor, ect (but you don't know)

Not sure about the parasitic drain. It was what I suspected before my brother borrowed the car. My truck sat for several weeks and wouldn't start. I got it jumped and it ran fine. He borrowed it and that's when I believe he crossed the cables.

It started fine after the incident but then I had all of the fuse issues. I drove it for several days just fine and then pulled it in the garage to see about the continuous Dome fuse blowing. Then all of a sudden it wouldn't start. I'll go back through your list tomorrow and try your tests as far as getting it started.
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Old 02-13-2020, 01:05 AM #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plcfcng View Post
pull the spark plug wire on the driver side front cylinder being careful not to damage the wire. place a screw driver that fits inside and touches where the plug clips in and stays there even if you have to use a little electric tap to make sure it keeps contact. Now place any metal part of the screw driver with in 1/4 inch from any metal on the engine then have some one crank the engine over for 5 seconds at a time and see if there is if there is a spark that happens. If there is a spark good if not electrical is the problem.

You could also try taking off the air horn open the throttle plates by hand and take about 1/8 cup or less of gas ( a good splash ) and toss it in. Re attach the air horn and turn the engine over. If it runs for about 3 sec then the you are looking at a fuel problem like a bad fuel pump if it does not then the secondary electrical (spark plugs, coils , ECM computer maybe bad)

These two test can give you a place to start to start to see what part of the system has the problem.
Just re-read what you wrote. I know exactly what you're talking about. My uncle and I did the "gas" test before. But I believe we used starter fluid. And I changed the plugs and ignition coils within the last year, I can handle the spark test. Thanks for the tips.
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Old 02-13-2020, 03:39 AM #33
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Is your fuse panel like the one in the schematic you post?
If so your not pulling 1a. The drawing showing the connectors on the back is rolled over to the right. In the upper left corner of the back would be the power relay.

You need to detail exactly what you did to the vehicle after you pulled it into the garage. Step by step in detail.
Your posts are so all over the place it took folks 2 pages to realize you drove the rig after you suspect your brother damaged it. And it seems you have 2 threads going for the same issue.


This is what I gathered:
#1: You had to jump your rig to get it to start one day.
#2: You loaned your rig to your brother and he had to jump it as well.
#3: You got your rig back and lots of fuses were blown including the 100A ALT fusible link.
#4: You replaced the ALT link and other fuses and drove your rig for a few days.
#5: At some point presumably after #3 the 15A (dome?) fuse would blow instantly.
#6: You parked you rig in the garage and started pulling stuff apart.
#7: After step #6 the vehicle will not start.
#8: You have determined that pulling the upper left connector from the back of the fuse panel driver side dash stops the 15A (dome) fuse from blowing.

Questions:
At step 2 did your brother ever get the rig running?
At step 3 what exact fuses were blown and in what fuse boxes?
Can we assume these are the same fuses replaced in step 4?
Step 5 seems cut and dry, but you’ve stated “15 amp fuses”, plural. How many and what fuses currently blow provided the mystery connector is connected?
In step 6, please detail exactly what you did step by step.

We can help you, but you need to be clear and detailed. Try not to include speculation and assumption. Just tell us exactly what you know and exactly what the symptoms are. Don’t leave any details out. Something you regard as unimportant could be very important.
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Old 02-13-2020, 05:45 PM #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anormalflame View Post
Maybe I'm wrong about which one it actually is. I'm pulling the one on the top left. In every diagram I've found, that's 1A. It's the one on the left just beneath the black thingamajig (ha!) Could be 1E? Not sure. Just going off these diagrams.

http://www.teamtoyota4x4.org/archivi...c/relayloc.pdf

But in every diagram it appears to be sideways. Mine isn't.
The '97 wiring is COMPLETELY different from the '02 wiring. Ignore those diagrams...

edit: How many pins, how many wires and what colors are those wires on the connector you are removing?

-Charlie
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Old 02-13-2020, 07:32 PM #35
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Wonder if his EFI fuse is good?
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Old 02-13-2020, 07:47 PM #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phattyduck View Post
The '97 wiring is COMPLETELY different from the '02 wiring. Ignore those diagrams...

edit: How many pins, how many wires and what colors are those wires on the connector you are removing?

-Charlie
Here is the '97 Relay locations chapter. OP, please verify which plug you have been pulling and we'll go from there. PM me an e-mail address and I'll send you the whole thing.

My thought is the integration relay could suffer from a reverse jump attempt. It's an expensive little beast, so let's see if we can figure a way to rule it out.
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File Type: pdf EWD 18 Relay_Locations.pdf (232.2 KB, 0 views)
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:35 AM #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDurk View Post
Here is the '97 Relay locations chapter. OP, please verify which plug you have been pulling and we'll go from there. PM me an e-mail address and I'll send you the whole thing.

My thought is the integration relay could suffer from a reverse jump attempt. It's an expensive little beast, so let's see if we can figure a way to rule it out.
He has the complete 1997 EWD. So now Charlie and TheDurk can help him find the causes. I think he doing excellent for not having a background in electrical that we have. Wiring diagrams can look like a foreign language at first until folks learn how to read them.

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Old 02-14-2020, 01:29 AM #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phattyduck View Post
The 1A connector has on it:

1 - G-Y, RH turn signal indicator power to gauge cluster
2 - G-B, LH turn signal indicator power to gauge cluster
3 - empty
4 - G, 20A Wiper fuse power to power window relay
5 - B-W, LH rear door courtesy switch
6 - G, back window control switch illumination power
7 - empty
8 - B, power output to rear window defogger from defogger relay
9 - empty
10- empty

Which is odd, since none of those seem related to your current problem?

-Charlie
I was wrong. @brillo_76 sent me the full manual for my 97. It was actually 1J that I was pulling to stop the Dome fuse from blowing.
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:31 AM #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDurk View Post
Here is the '97 Relay locations chapter. OP, please verify which plug you have been pulling and we'll go from there. PM me an e-mail address and I'll send you the whole thing.

My thought is the integration relay could suffer from a reverse jump attempt. It's an expensive little beast, so let's see if we can figure a way to rule it out.
Ah Hello @TheDurk !

I was incorrect before. @Brillo _67 sent me the full manual. I was actually pulling 1J to stop the Dome fuse from blowing. I was following your previous posts which included 2002 relay locations.
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:34 AM #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phattyduck View Post
The '97 wiring is COMPLETELY different from the '02 wiring. Ignore those diagrams...

edit: How many pins, how many wires and what colors are those wires on the connector you are removing?

-Charlie
Got the correct manual. It was the 1J connector.
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:48 AM #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieselchessy View Post
Is your fuse panel like the one in the schematic you post?
If so your not pulling 1a. The drawing showing the connectors on the back is rolled over to the right. In the upper left corner of the back would be the power relay.

You need to detail exactly what you did to the vehicle after you pulled it into the garage. Step by step in detail.
Your posts are so all over the place it took folks 2 pages to realize you drove the rig after you suspect your brother damaged it. And it seems you have 2 threads going for the same issue.


This is what I gathered:
#1: You had to jump your rig to get it to start one day.
#2: You loaned your rig to your brother and he had to jump it as well.
#3: You got your rig back and lots of fuses were blown including the 100A ALT fusible link.
#4: You replaced the ALT link and other fuses and drove your rig for a few days.
#5: At some point presumably after #3 the 15A (dome?) fuse would blow instantly.
#6: You parked you rig in the garage and started pulling stuff apart.
#7: After step #6 the vehicle will not start.
#8: You have determined that pulling the upper left connector from the back of the fuse panel driver side dash stops the 15A (dome) fuse from blowing.

Questions:
At step 2 did your brother ever get the rig running?
At step 3 what exact fuses were blown and in what fuse boxes?
Can we assume these are the same fuses replaced in step 4?
Step 5 seems cut and dry, but you’ve stated “15 amp fuses”, plural. How many and what fuses currently blow provided the mystery connector is connected?
In step 6, please detail exactly what you did step by step.

We can help you, but you need to be clear and detailed. Try not to include speculation and assumption. Just tell us exactly what you know and exactly what the symptoms are. Don’t leave any details out. Something you regard as unimportant could be very important.
Got the correct manual now from a fellow member. It wasn't 1A. It's 1J.

1. Truck wouldn't start. Jumped it off.
2. Loaned to brother. Returned with dome fuse blown, door locks not working, and turn signals not working. Tried to swap 15a dome fuse out, but it blew. I had to go somewhere for a photography job so I drove it anyway. Drove fine.
3. Came home to try to figure this out. Drove it in the garage. I swapped fuses - the 10a AC, 10a RR HTR, 10a Head (RH), 10a Head (LH), all under the hood and the ACC (inside truck) after using a test light. Now only the 10a AC fuse lights up using a test light out of that cluster of 10a fuses in that middle section of fuses under the hood. They aren't blown, the test light just doesn't illuminate on either side. Tried swapping dome fuses but they kept blowing again.
4. I began pulling the connectors behind the fuse box inside the truck. Narrowed it down to one connector which I now know is the 1J. I used my test light poking inside each slot for the wires on that connector. On one of them on the left side I heard the relay click under the hood as the test light lit up. There was one on the right side that made the test light illuminate, but it was very dim. Not sure what that means.
5. Truck would crank but not start.
6. I swapped the 100 ALT fusible link because it appeared to be blown, but I couldn't really tell for sure due to lack of visibility through the plastic. Also because other T4R.org members had theirs blown while diagnosing similar issues. Just figured what the hell. I'll swap it.
7. Here we are.

Brother got the rig running fine... So did I. It only stopped running after pulling into the garage to diagnose.

I only had to swap the other fuses once. Sorry I meant fuse not fuses.

Thanks for your help.
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Old 02-14-2020, 02:35 AM #42
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Did you try starting the rig between steps 3 and 4?

I’m not sure what to make of your comment about the 10amp fuses no longer having power. I take that to mean they did have power at some point?

Do you only own a test light, or do you have a volt meter?

I’m assuming you’ve tried plugging connector 1j in and the rig still won’t start.
That should indicate that in the work that took place in steps 3 and 4 is most likely the event that caused the vehicle to not start.

It seems suspect that in step 3 something happened to cause power not to be properly distributed in the under hood relay box.

I don’t have the 97 schematics. You should investigate the power distribution in the under hood fuse panel. I suspect you’ve blown one of the larger (30 amp) fuses or fusible links other than ALT. ALT shouldn’t do much other than carry current to/from the alternator.

Be careful poking around with a test light. You might accidentally short something.
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Old 02-14-2020, 02:10 PM #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anormalflame View Post
Got the correct manual now from a fellow member. It wasn't 1A. It's 1J.

1. Truck wouldn't start. Jumped it off.
2. Loaned to brother. Returned with dome fuse blown, door locks not working, and turn signals not working. Tried to swap 15a dome fuse out, but it blew. I had to go somewhere for a photography job so I drove it anyway. Drove fine.
3. Came home to try to figure this out. Drove it in the garage. I swapped fuses - the 10a AC, 10a RR HTR, 10a Head (RH), 10a Head (LH), all under the hood and the ACC (inside truck) after using a test light. Now only the 10a AC fuse lights up using a test light out of that cluster of 10a fuses in that middle section of fuses under the hood. They aren't blown, the test light just doesn't illuminate on either side. Tried swapping dome fuses but they kept blowing again.
4. I began pulling the connectors behind the fuse box inside the truck. Narrowed it down to one connector which I now know is the 1J. I used my test light poking inside each slot for the wires on that connector. On one of them on the left side I heard the relay click under the hood as the test light lit up. There was one on the right side that made the test light illuminate, but it was very dim. Not sure what that means.
5. Truck would crank but not start.
6. I swapped the 100 ALT fusible link because it appeared to be blown, but I couldn't really tell for sure due to lack of visibility through the plastic. Also because other T4R.org members had theirs blown while diagnosing similar issues. Just figured what the hell. I'll swap it.
7. Here we are.

Brother got the rig running fine... So did I. It only stopped running after pulling into the garage to diagnose.

I only had to swap the other fuses once. Sorry I meant fuse not fuses.

Thanks for your help.

Not sure why your 10A RR HTR fuse wouldn't have power unless somethings not connected under the relay box, or bad connection.
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Old 02-14-2020, 02:39 PM #44
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Look at the EFI fuse under the hood and all the fuses under the dash, 7.5A ignition, ECU, ect….

Under the dash relay box looks to have the important stuff on 1H.

Given the starter turns over the AM1 and 2 fuses should be good.
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Old 02-14-2020, 03:21 PM #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anormalflame View Post
Got the correct manual now from a fellow member. It wasn't 1A. It's 1J.

1. Truck wouldn't start. Jumped it off.
2. Loaned to brother. Returned with dome fuse blown, door locks not working, and turn signals not working. Tried to swap 15a dome fuse out, but it blew. I had to go somewhere for a photography job so I drove it anyway. Drove fine.
3. Came home to try to figure this out. Drove it in the garage. I swapped fuses - the 10a AC, 10a RR HTR, 10a Head (RH), 10a Head (LH), all under the hood and the ACC (inside truck) after using a test light. Now only the 10a AC fuse lights up using a test light out of that cluster of 10a fuses in that middle section of fuses under the hood. They aren't blown, the test light just doesn't illuminate on either side. Tried swapping dome fuses but they kept blowing again.
4. I began pulling the connectors behind the fuse box inside the truck. Narrowed it down to one connector which I now know is the 1J. I used my test light poking inside each slot for the wires on that connector. On one of them on the left side I heard the relay click under the hood as the test light lit up. There was one on the right side that made the test light illuminate, but it was very dim. Not sure what that means.
5. Truck would crank but not start.
6. I swapped the 100 ALT fusible link because it appeared to be blown, but I couldn't really tell for sure due to lack of visibility through the plastic. Also because other T4R.org members had theirs blown while diagnosing similar issues. Just figured what the hell. I'll swap it.
7. Here we are.

Brother got the rig running fine... So did I. It only stopped running after pulling into the garage to diagnose.

I only had to swap the other fuses once. Sorry I meant fuse not fuses.

Thanks for your help.
3. Headlight fuses won't have power unless the headlight switch is on. 50A Heater and 10A AC fuses won't have power unless the 10A gauge fuse is outputting power (key ON). 10A RR HTR fuse should have power all the time (though the rear heater itself will only work with vehicle "ON" via GAUGE fuse power and rear heater relay).

1J connector has:

1 - R-L, 10A GAUGE fuse power output (to alternator and other stuff)
2 - R, Headlight relay trigger signal (pulls to ground when switch is ON)
3 - L-W, Power in from HORN relay
4 - B, Power to horns from HORN relay
5 - empty
6 - G, Power from TAIL relay for integration relay and interior light power
7 - R-G, LH headlight low beam ground connection to headlight switch
8 - B-W, 7.5A IGN fuse power output
9 - R-G, RH headlight low beam ground connection to headlight switch
10- G-Y, Front RH turn signal power out
11- G-B, Front LH turn signal power out
12- L-Y, Power input from 15A DOME fuse to integration relay and other systems
13- empty

I'd try removing the integration relay and plugging 1J back in to see what happens. The next thing is to go down the line with every component that is connected to the DOME fuse...

-Charlie
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'99 4Runner SR5 Auto - 4WD swapped
'89 Camry Alltrac LE 3S-GTE 5spd
'16 Honda Odyssey
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