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Old 04-06-2020, 11:48 PM #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbodudey2 View Post
Regardless of how many pullies you have in they system, the tension in any one segment of rope will only ever be the winch force.



In a 2:1 or 3:1 (or any mechanical advantage system you may have rigged) you definitely multiply the winch force at the anchor points, but each segment of rope will only carry 1X the force the winch is pulling.



This is all static forces though. The reason you need a rope with a rating higher than the winch is due to any dynamic forces that may occur.
That depends on how you rig your system if you are only running back to the winch or bumper where the winch is mounted then yes, but that's not the only way to rig a system.
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Old 04-07-2020, 01:26 AM #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the great him View Post
That depends on how you rig your system if you are only running back to the winch or bumper where the winch is mounted then yes, but that's not the only way to rig a system.
Can you describe for us a rigging method that would result in more than the winch pulling force being applied to the winch line?
Iím sure itís possible, I just canít picture it.
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Old 04-07-2020, 12:38 PM #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieselchessy View Post

How much is the 7/16Ē stuff?
What the price per foot of the 3/8Ē Tech99?

It seems like the end price will be the same $300+ for a top shelf rope. The others last 8 years or so. How long will this one last?
7/16" AR78 is $3.52 per foot (25,500lb load limit)

The price per foot of 3/8" Tech99 with the chafe cover is $5.30 per foot

The Tech99 and Tech78 lines will last a long damn time. We have had them as part of our running backstay system on the boat for 2 years now in full Miami sun. The boat is stored outdoors so it is not at all protected from the elements and the rope is just fine. No signs of fading or fatigue.

In the sailing environment (the lines are subject to lots of UV, moisture, and repeated loading and rapid unloading cycles as well as high heat and friction on drums) this line has shown some fantastic qualities and durability. This is exactly why I thought it would make for a good winch rope. They only just came up with this version line a few years ago so I cant attest to its longevity in an extended multi year real world test....but so far so good, the results look promising.
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Old 04-07-2020, 02:13 PM #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the great him View Post
That depends on how you rig your system if you are only running back to the winch or bumper where the winch is mounted then yes, but that's not the only way to rig a system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieselchessy View Post
Can you describe for us a rigging method that would result in more than the winch pulling force being applied to the winch line? I’m sure it’s possible, I just can’t picture it.
The only caveat would be for compound or complex systems with traveling pullies. Standard simple systems will only ever have one tension unit on the rope, but yes you're correct any compound or complex system can have multiple tension units on the rope.

I suppose I shouldn't have assumed that simple pulley systems would be the only configuration (even though they are used a high percentage of the time).

Only hard core 4x4 recovery dudes, sailors, or SAR/high angle rope rescue folks would likely know how to rig anything with traveling pullies. Granted a 4:1 pig rig is pretty simple, and that has a traveling pully...
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Old 04-07-2020, 04:39 PM #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbodudey2 View Post
The only caveat would be for compound or complex systems with traveling pullies. Standard simple systems will only ever have one tension unit on the rope, but yes you're correct any compound or complex system can have multiple tension units on the rope.

I suppose I shouldn't have assumed that simple pulley system would be the only configuration (even thought they are used a high percentage of the time).

Only hard core 4x4 recovery dudes, sailors, or SAR/high angle rope rescue folks would likely know how to rig anything with traveling pullies. Granted a 4:1 pig rig is pretty simple, and that has a traveling pully...
Interesting setup, good to know about. But yea, I've never even heard of this in climbing, let alone seen it used in 4x4. Is it even possible (what's the 4x4 rated equivalent of a tibloc)? Or would you just use another 8 bight instead of a lock... You'd be ridiculously oversized 99.99% of the time to prep for a rare instance where it'd be necessary to use part of your line as a secondary anchor point. Make more sense to me to just carry extra standard size line/cable in case you need it to snatch block to a solid anchor than trying to rig all that up. Or just buy a bigger winch. Didn't sound like anyone was referencing something like this regardless.
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Old 04-07-2020, 05:01 PM #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsailing View Post
Thanks for your input. Some good points.

Its actually a rope with a cover and a core. The core is 12 strand specially coated dyneema and the cover is woven from Technora fiber (that super chafe resistant conveyor belt material). G&B Ropes | Mistral Tech 78

My coworkers factory (made in the USA) also makes a line that is similar to masterpull with a 29000 lb of breaking strength and its also at $5 per ft. I can make a $500 winch rope that is 100ft long and you could lift 7 of our rigs clean off the ground with it. But you dont have the chafe outer cover on that one...I would think most would gladly give up a bit of the overkill strength for more chafe protection.

If people want more breaking strength....Say go up to a 1/2" line with the chafe protection cover that would be $5 per foot and 15250lb breaking strength. not quite at the 2:1 ratio but getting better.

However I guess my question is what are people willing to pay for a bulletproof winch rope? What would make it worth it to shell out for a rope that would last the life of the vehicle and that you could beat to hell and back on the worst trails.

If money is no object Then a 1/2" line with chafe cover, a breaking load of 18000lb would be $8.15 per foot.

What is the limit for a premium Gucci winch line that will most likely out last the owner and the vehicle?
I think the strength vs size vs price just isn't there. I run masterpull Superline. 5/16" 21,700 breaking strength, and its $3.40/ft.


this line allows me 125' in place of the original 96' of cable. after having that extra length, AND strength, there is no way I would go lower. in fact, I have been trying to figure out how to fit even more line.


1/2" line would take me well down below 90', and its not as strong as the 5/16" im currently using. that's a no for me..




for your viewing pleasure, this is the line I run.


Winch Line | Synthetic Winch Rope | Superline Black 5/16"
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Old 04-07-2020, 06:11 PM #22
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Respect for new ideas but man, seeing these prices reminds me why I still run 3/8" steel cable. Not that I use it much these days. $50 for 100'. Missed the UV response earlier, if you're talking about this being anywhere near a lifetime cable you def can't keep it exposed. It's a poly blend cover, even the spec sheet says it doesn't resist UV well. Not a big deal, all synthetic lines should be covered.
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Old 04-07-2020, 09:26 PM #23
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Again my original intent was not to see who could get the highest rated line for breaking strength as there are plenty out there....I was more thinking along the lines of chafe resistance. The cover on the stuff I have on our boat amazes me with how chafe resistant it is.

Like I said before I used all sorts of dyneema spectra lines and poly blend lines and nothing lasted for more than a weekend...the cover on the mistral tech99/78 is bloody tough stuff...I have had the same piece for 2 years now.

The question I am trying to answer is would it be worth while making a dirt and rock resistant synthetic winch rope.

Keep in mind the prices are high because I am having him make the line in small batches of 100ft lengths....if I can get a few dozen orders so he can make a longer run of line the costs will tumble significantly.
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Old 04-07-2020, 09:46 PM #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbtvt View Post
Interesting setup, good to know about. But yea, I've never even heard of this in climbing, let alone seen it used in 4x4. Is it even possible (what's the 4x4 rated equivalent of a tibloc)? Or would you just use another 8 bight instead of a lock... You'd be ridiculously oversized 99.99% of the time to prep for a rare instance where it'd be necessary to use part of your line as a secondary anchor point. Make more sense to me to just carry extra standard size line/cable in case you need it to snatch block to a solid anchor than trying to rig all that up. Or just buy a bigger winch. Didn't sound like anyone was referencing something like this regardless.
The only advantage to using a compound system in off-road recovery is that it requires less pulleys. A simple 4;1 requires 1 winch and 3 pulleys. A compound 4;1 requires 2 winches and 2 pulleys. I've done a fair bit of recoveries and I have never used a compound, much less a complex system. That goes for both climbing and off-roading.
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Old 04-08-2020, 01:34 AM #25
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I see my mental imaging mistake. I was trying to picture a rigging method someone might actually use with a winch in the act of recovering a vehicle.

From what Iíve seen in my life itís getting pretty complicated if someone uses a snatch block. And damn rare that someone uses two snatch blocks.
Im the only one I know that even caries 2 snatch blocks, and itís rare I use both for anything but changing angles of pull.
Iíve never used both to compound leverage with my winch. I have with my grip hoist but itís only 4K rated, so extra leverage helps sometimes.
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Old 06-24-2020, 10:32 PM #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbodudey2 View Post
The only caveat would be for compound or complex systems with traveling pullies. Standard simple systems will only ever have one tension unit on the rope, but yes you're correct any compound or complex system can have multiple tension units on the rope.

I suppose I shouldn't have assumed that simple pulley systems would be the only configuration (even though they are used a high percentage of the time).

Only hard core 4x4 recovery dudes, sailors, or SAR/high angle rope rescue folks would likely know how to rig anything with traveling pullies. Granted a 4:1 pig rig is pretty simple, and that has a traveling pully...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieselchessy View Post
I see my mental imaging mistake. I was trying to picture a rigging method someone might actually use with a winch in the act of recovering a vehicle.

From what Iíve seen in my life itís getting pretty complicated if someone uses a snatch block. And damn rare that someone uses two snatch blocks.
Im the only one I know that even caries 2 snatch blocks, and itís rare I use both for anything but changing angles of pull.
Iíve never used both to compound leverage with my winch. I have with my grip hoist but itís only 4K rated, so extra leverage helps sometimes.
Exactly why I asked, as someone who is in SAR this has been done on a few occasions. I have also seen the guts pulled out of systems by people who didn't consider their equipment and cause catastrophic damage and endangered other people.

I always carry a minimum of two blocks at all times and if I know I'm going wheeling I will carry more. I'd rather be over equipped than stuck...
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