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Old 04-25-2020, 02:12 PM #31
3bears 3bears is offline
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Originally Posted by Mark_BC View Post
I have 3 x 3rd gens, a 97, 98 and 2000. I got two more drum to drum axles to swap out a rusty one and to put an e-locker on the other. They are in the range of 200-300,000 miles. None show any evidence of leaking. I guess my time will soon come? I use the 2000 4runner mostly now, and I ordered the parts for an axle seal job. Should I just do it to get it out of the way for peace of mind? Hoping for a Yukon trip this summer. Maybe I'll just bring the parts with me in case. Hey, if I'm up that way and it blows out, maybe Kanoe can help me do it!!! For a fee of course...
well..i did my preventative...230k and moving from oregon to fairbanks alaska and fully loaded...last thing I wanted was a blown axel seal or bearing, finding someone on the road to do the work and all the inconvenience. It also allowed me to take my time, clean things really well, and I installed new wheel cylinders and super cleaned all brake parts.
plus I was going to be leaving tons of my tools, press etc at my son in oregon
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Old 04-25-2020, 02:31 PM #32
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Originally Posted by 3bears View Post
couple of ideas.. I doubt you have a bad housing
.one: MTBTM is correct on how to set this up...and it gives you more area to get the seal to hit correct...however some people think this is not needed
two: the shop that is doing the work and if they are a specialty Japanese shop they will appreciate learning how to correctly set up a 4 runner for the future...less future call backs for them
three: 800 seems expensive...is that labor and parts ? If you need a new axel housing...great time to convert to a locker rear end . In your area of the usa and all the people on the forums that live in that area you should be able to find a drum to drum elocker for less than that , even installed, and then have them switch in your newly pressed axels with bearings. If you were in my area Id help you out. I bet you could find dome 4runner friend to help you out. swapping in a drum to drum would be less that 2 hours ( well for me with air tools and jacks etc) , add another 2-3 for swaping in the "new axels" and installing new seals...the longest part would be doing the wiring. I made up my own harness, did not use factory switch...did it in what they call the gray wire mod....that took me longer than swapping out the rear ends. Now I think you can buy the non factory style harness pre mad

good luck
Thanks for the offer, sometimes I wish I was up in central Alaska and not here in southern CA. The forum has been pretty unanimous that the shop's recommendation to consider replacing the entire rear end without presenting me with any evidence of why it's necessary makes no sense. It looks like a naked play to generate more work/$ which I guess shouldn't surprise me.

Yes, the extra $800 to replace the entire rear end was for labor and parts. I bought the seals, bearings, and brake shoes from McGeorge Toyota in Richmond VA. The shop is charging me $460 in labor to replace the bearings and seals on both sides, put on new brake shoes, and to flush/replace the brake fluid and diff oil. I got quotes from 5 different places and this was the best one for a place that did the press work in-house. The good reviews and the fact that it specializes in Japanese vehicles made it seem like a clear winner... hoping it proves to be a good choice despite the attempt to upsell me.
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Old 04-25-2020, 06:24 PM #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beklemmung View Post
Thanks for the offer, sometimes I wish I was up in central Alaska and not here in southern CA. The forum has been pretty unanimous that the shop's recommendation to consider replacing the entire rear end without presenting me with any evidence of why it's necessary makes no sense. It looks like a naked play to generate more work/$ which I guess shouldn't surprise me.

Yes, the extra $800 to replace the entire rear end was for labor and parts. I bought the seals, bearings, and brake shoes from McGeorge Toyota in Richmond VA. The shop is charging me $460 in labor to replace the bearings and seals on both sides, put on new brake shoes, and to flush/replace the brake fluid and diff oil. I got quotes from 5 different places and this was the best one for a place that did the press work in-house. The good reviews and the fact that it specializes in Japanese vehicles made it seem like a clear winner... hoping it proves to be a good choice despite the attempt to upsell me.
$800 dollars for parts and labor seem reasonable. I've done the job a few times since I ended up blowing my seals the first go around due to my differential breather being clogged.

I think the rear axle seals is one of the easier jobs to do on the 4runner but its kind of a pain since you have to deal with brake fluid and diff fluid.

Having the tool that Tim references in his videos or one like that tool is key to doing the job.
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Old 04-25-2020, 06:31 PM #34
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Originally Posted by Mark_BC View Post
I checked two of them and it looks like there's a little bit of wetness on the ABS gear but not totally dripping, meaning the globs of grease on the ring go round and round and don't get washed off which you would expect if it was bathing in an oil leak. It's bloody hard to pull those sensors out when rusty without wrecking the plastic. I'll double check the 2000 and if it's dry I should be good for a big trip this summer. If wet I'll plan to get the job done. I have the 20 ton press, just haven't put it together yet. I have a million things on my plate right now. I'm like a kid with eyes bigger than his stomach. So many neat projects I start but nowhere near enough time to do them.
If they are wet, they are leaking by.

Gear oil is thick enough the ABS sensors are going to stay wet even if you don't lap up the gear oil by rotating the tires.

You can probably go for some distance but you should consider doing a replacement at some point. I think at this point you can pretty much guarantee that every 4runner out there needs some head work done, rear axle seals, a new suspension, vacuum lines, new radiator, and etc.

I'm of the opinion that after a vehicle is 20 years old you can get better value buying one with really high miles and doing maintenance work than one with 250,000 miles unless you have paperwork of maintenance/parts.
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Old 04-26-2020, 04:27 AM #35
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Originally Posted by APhelps View Post
$800 dollars for parts and labor seem reasonable. I've done the job a few times since I ended up blowing my seals the first go around due to my differential breather being clogged.

I think the rear axle seals is one of the easier jobs to do on the 4runner but its kind of a pain since you have to deal with brake fluid and diff fluid.

Having the tool that Tim references in his videos or one like that tool is key to doing the job.
That $800 for parts and labor was to replace what the shop alternated calling "the housing" and "the rear end" and "the assembly." I would have still had to pay another ~$450 in labor on top of that for them to put in my new bearings and seals and to install the new brake shoes and drums.

I got my truck back, the only thing I can say for sure right now is that the retainer isn't grinding against the axle housing. It drives fine and no new/strange noises. I didn't witness them doing a grease/sharpie test on either side, but I asked the owner/manager whether they checked and he said his tech checked both sides and that the seal is riding close to the middle of the retainer. I kind of wish I had demanded to watch them test at least one side, though they finished it very late in the day, about an hour after they technically closed.

My receipt states "Customer was offered option on replacing assembly and servicing new assembly to prevent leaks due to worn seating. Customer declined." I don't know why they used "assembly" instead of "axle housing", and based on what everyone here has said, "worn seating" sounds like nonsense.
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Old 04-26-2020, 11:54 AM #36
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I had this problem when I first did my seals on my 97. The housing was gouged on the inner seal when work was done before I owned it. The second time around I figured it out and sealed the outer edge of the seal when I replaced it again. No problem since then. You can do this yourself with just a new seal and a couple hours of work if that
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Old 04-26-2020, 05:37 PM #37
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Originally Posted by Mark_BC View Post
Hoping for a Yukon trip this summer. Maybe I'll just bring the parts with me in case. Hey, if I'm up that way and it blows out, maybe Kanoe can help me do it!!! For a fee of course...
I would be glad to help out, but I am in no way qualified to collect a fee for any services. I did it once, and not really by choice. Couldn't find anyone who wanted to touch it, and I am particular about who I let touch it. It has held up so far 30,000+ km but it was very much a backyard job including making the tools due to short notice.

Have you been up this way before? You'll love it. Get in touch if you want any info or to grab a coffee or a meal. I hope you get to do the trip if covid lets up in time.
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Old 04-26-2020, 05:52 PM #38
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Originally Posted by St Runner View Post
I had this problem when I first did my seals on my 97. The housing was gouged on the inner seal when work was done before I owned it. The second time around I figured it out and sealed the outer edge of the seal when I replaced it again. No problem since then. You can do this yourself with just a new seal and a couple hours of work if that
I'm still not sure I had/have a "problem." A gouged housing doesn't sound the same as a worn seating to me. And when I spoke with the shop on the phone on two occasions they never mentioned that they saw any evidence of damage or wear to the housing, only that they thought I should consider spending an extra $800 because they'd seen problems in the past and it could be invisibly "warped."
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Old 04-26-2020, 06:20 PM #39
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I'm still not sure I had/have a "problem." A gouged housing doesn't sound the same as a worn seating to me. And when I spoke with the shop on the phone on two occasions they never mentioned that they saw any evidence of damage or wear to the housing, only that they thought I should consider spending an extra $800 because they'd seen problems in the past and it could be invisibly "warped."
I suspect your job was just done poorly in the past by people who were not informed. You've read the theory behind this and passed it on. If the shop did things properly you should be good to go.

Pull those ABS sensors soon to make sure it is all good, don't want to ruin your new bearings and brakes.
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