06-09-2020, 05:20 PM
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#16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crackership
It is noticeably running rough. It's fairly smooth when cold, but gets progressively rougher as it warms up.
I pulled the plug quickly during lunch in preparation for a compression test this evening and noticed that the plug is black with fuel. So I did a quick spark test and have spark.. I'm not sure what to make of this..
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If by chance you could post a picture, that would help immensely!
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06-09-2020, 07:58 PM
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#17
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Duvall, WA
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Real Name: Dave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plcfcng
What did the plug look like when you pulled it out ? If it looked different it can tell you alot. You can Start the engine remove radiator cap let the engine come up to temperature at idle when the engine is at operating temp look down the radiator neck see if there are any bubbles.
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Plug was black with fuel, the others look fine. I've run it with the radiator cap off a couple times now, and also pressure tested it, no apparently leaks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleCaesar
Well then either it isn’t firing (ignition) or the injector is bad, even though you said you replaced them? OEM replacement?
Got a helper to crank over the engine as you test for spark?
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I replaced all 6 injectors with the kit from Motorwest Denso Fuel Injector Upgrade Set for 3.4L V6 4Runner Tacoma and Tundra – HP831 – MotorWest Performance They don't rebuild the OEM ones anymore, they say this is due to too high a failure rate, so they offer these Denso units as a replacement/upgrade.
I tested for spark and I have what looks like very healthy spark. Super confused.
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06-09-2020, 11:41 PM
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#19
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Well, I think I figured it out. Here's the compression numbers:
1: 165
2: 30
3: 160
4: 155
5: 170
6: 160
You'll notice one of those numbers falls outside the acceptable tolerance by a little.
So, where do you all suggest sourcing an engine from?
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06-10-2020, 08:31 AM
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#20
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Join Date: May 2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crackership
Well, I think I figured it out. Here's the compression numbers:
1: 165
2: 30
3: 160
4: 155
5: 170
6: 160
You'll notice one of those numbers falls outside the acceptable tolerance by a little.
So, where do you all suggest sourcing an engine from?
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Oh dear 30 is not going to fire. At least you found the cause.
If fluid levels arent dropping could be either valves or rings on that cylinder. Or a cracked head.
Engines are readily available. Just like transmissions etc.
The rest if the engine is good. I suspect head or valves not sealing.
Sent from my SM-J337V using Tapatalk
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06-10-2020, 09:25 AM
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#21
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Join Date: Feb 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crackership
Well, I think I figured it out. Here's the compression numbers:
1: 165
2: 30
3: 160
4: 155
5: 170
6: 160
You'll notice one of those numbers falls outside the acceptable tolerance by a little.
So, where do you all suggest sourcing an engine from?
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Before you go buying a new engine I recommend putting a tablespoon of engine oil in the low compression cylinder and checking your compression numbers. If it goes up dramatically then you have a piston ring not sealing issue or a piston that is cracked between the ring lands. If that's the case I would resurface the heads and replace pistons/rings.
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06-10-2020, 11:52 AM
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#22
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Elite Member
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Join Date: Oct 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crackership
Well, I think I figured it out. Here's the compression numbers:
1: 165
2: 30
3: 160
4: 155
5: 170
6: 160
You'll notice one of those numbers falls outside the acceptable tolerance by a little.
So, where do you all suggest sourcing an engine from?
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WAIT!!! Don't ditch the engine yet. There's a good chance your exhaust valve looks like this:
I've encountered several 5VZ-FE's with burnt exhaust valves. While it's not super common, it does happen. You will want to do a leakdown test (if you have a buddy with an air compressor you can buy the tool yourself) and see if it's the valves. If yes, it's totally repairable. I recently purchased a 4Runner that had a very badly burnt exhaust valve, it had 3 cracks in it!
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06-10-2020, 07:11 PM
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#23
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Member
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Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Southern California (please don't hold it against me)
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Did you do a wet compression test ? If the number stays close to the same then it will be valve problem thats a good thing if the number goes way up then it's a ring problem that's not good. After that then pull the head they guy before me is right a burn't valve is not a huge deal. When you pull the head send us a pic.
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06-10-2020, 08:02 PM
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#24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamefreakgc
WAIT!!! Don't ditch the engine yet. There's a good chance your exhaust valve looks like this:
I've encountered several 5VZ-FE's with burnt exhaust valves. While it's not super common, it does happen. You will want to do a leakdown test (if you have a buddy with an air compressor you can buy the tool yourself) and see if it's the valves. If yes, it's totally repairable. I recently purchased a 4Runner that had a very badly burnt exhaust valve, it had 3 cracks in it!
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I have an air compressor, just need to get the tool for a leakdown test.
Would it change your opinion at all if I said the engine has 260k miles on it?
I'll admit, most of my experience dealing with head repairs/machine work has been on Porsche or Alfa Romeo engines, but all the machine shops I've worked with start at about $600/head to clean them up, replace valve stem seals, set valve clearances and re-surface. For a pair of heads, that's $1200 and any replacement parts (like valves) would be extra. Add in a set of head gaskets and we're at the cost of a JDM engine, and I've still got 260k on the bottom end. This is where my thought train is going, anyway. I understand that the JDM engines aren't a direct drop in, but most of the things I'd need to handle to facilitate the swap are good maintenance items anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by plcfcng
Did you do a wet compression test ? If the number stays close to the same then it will be valve problem thats a good thing if the number goes way up then it's a ring problem that's not good. After that then pull the head they guy before me is right a burn't valve is not a huge deal. When you pull the head send us a pic.
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by wet compression test, you mean by dropping some oil in the cylinder first, right? I'll do that this evening
Last edited by Crackership; 06-10-2020 at 08:04 PM.
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06-11-2020, 11:01 AM
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#25
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Member
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yes if you have a squirt can I just give it a 2 squirts and do the test. It is also a good idea when you pull spark plugs keep them in order so you can look at them. It's called taking a plug reading it can tell you a lot. If you have already mixed them up it would take driving it a 40 or so miles to give you an idea what's going on in the cylinder. At this point don't worry so much about a plug reading. As far as cost go I work with a machine shop they cut the valves, rest lash, and resurface for about 500$ take your valve seals from the head gasket set. if you have a cracked head if you get refurbished make sure to check valve lash. I got a set that was way out I have a set of heads but it a long drive to get them there.
Last edited by plcfcng; 06-11-2020 at 11:10 AM.
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06-11-2020, 02:28 PM
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#26
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Elite Member
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Join Date: Oct 2014
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Location: Citrus Heights, California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crackership
I have an air compressor, just need to get the tool for a leakdown test.
Would it change your opinion at all if I said the engine has 260k miles on it?
I'll admit, most of my experience dealing with head repairs/machine work has been on Porsche or Alfa Romeo engines, but all the machine shops I've worked with start at about $600/head to clean them up, replace valve stem seals, set valve clearances and re-surface. For a pair of heads, that's $1200 and any replacement parts (like valves) would be extra. Add in a set of head gaskets and we're at the cost of a JDM engine, and I've still got 260k on the bottom end. This is where my thought train is going, anyway. I understand that the JDM engines aren't a direct drop in, but most of the things I'd need to handle to facilitate the swap are good maintenance items anyway.
by wet compression test, you mean by dropping some oil in the cylinder first, right? I'll do that this evening
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It depends. I blew my engine at 220K miles but I had metal shards in the oil so it was time to replace it. Had two cylinders with low compression at that point too. A valve job shouldn't be in the $600 range at all. I just had a set of heads resurfaced and hot tanked for $160 and you'd only have to have one done with 1 valve replaced. This isn't an over engineered German cylinder head, it's a very simple Toyota one.
If you do want to go for a JDM swap, there's a lot of parts you'll need to move over from your USDM. I had a heck of a time getting the JDM crank pulley off and added about 20 hours to the job of moving all those parts over, it was a ton of extra work. BUT my new engine is fantastic, wet compression is 220 PSI per cylinder!
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06-11-2020, 03:27 PM
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#27
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Jun 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamefreakgc
It depends. I blew my engine at 220K miles but I had metal shards in the oil so it was time to replace it. Had two cylinders with low compression at that point too. A valve job shouldn't be in the $600 range at all. I just had a set of heads resurfaced and hot tanked for $160 and you'd only have to have one done with 1 valve replaced. This isn't an over engineered German cylinder head, it's a very simple Toyota one.
If you do want to go for a JDM swap, there's a lot of parts you'll need to move over from your USDM. I had a heck of a time getting the JDM crank pulley off and added about 20 hours to the job of moving all those parts over, it was a ton of extra work. BUT my new engine is fantastic, wet compression is 220 PSI per cylinder!
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So, I'm a little torn. But, the facts are, I bought this rig knowing it had a misfire and that there was a good chance it needed as much as an engine. The price I got it for very appropriately represented the possible work required. I know nothing about the history of the engine, just what the odometer tells me and the fact that I have very low compression on one hole. I'd like to be able to drive this thing for 10 years and do some light wheeling as often as possible and if like to be able to comfortably trust it won't leave me stranded. On the one hand, solving the immediate issue is definitely the cheapest option but the nuclear option of a JDM engine puts me in a known-good place as far as long-term engine health. I'm leaning the direction of "just swap the engine and call it handled", but I do really appreciate the dissenting opinions. It's worth making sure all options are considered
Last edited by Crackership; 06-11-2020 at 03:44 PM.
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06-11-2020, 05:38 PM
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#28
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Elite Member
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Join Date: Oct 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crackership
So, I'm a little torn. But, the facts are, I bought this rig knowing it had a misfire and that there was a good chance it needed as much as an engine. The price I got it for very appropriately represented the possible work required. I know nothing about the history of the engine, just what the odometer tells me and the fact that I have very low compression on one hole. I'd like to be able to drive this thing for 10 years and do some light wheeling as often as possible and if like to be able to comfortably trust it won't leave me stranded. On the one hand, solving the immediate issue is definitely the cheapest option but the nuclear option of a JDM engine puts me in a known-good place as far as long-term engine health. I'm leaning the direction of "just swap the engine and call it handled", but I do really appreciate the dissenting opinions. It's worth making sure all options are considered
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Yeah that makes sense. A full swap will give you a better engine that you can depend on, rather than waiting to see if the old one blows up again.
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06-24-2020, 05:27 PM
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#29
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Just to close this thread, I bought a JDM engine, and dropped it in. Nuclear solution, but very effective. Thanks all for all your help!!
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