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Old 08-05-2020, 10:17 PM #16
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sorry ...not meaning to thread jack, but the facebook listed above replied and has no idea what we are talking about'
its kind of related as it deals with winch stuff

edit: there is a Amp'd llc...not amp'd up llc...the first makes t shirts....my error
I was totally ready to build my own plate just like that one and keep my stock bumper maybe 2 weeks ago. then I order an addicted offroad front tube bumper so... that happened.

still the basic winch mounted plate thing looks great and it only adds minimal weight + winch. I like it.
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Old 08-06-2020, 07:24 AM #17
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I was just in the market for a budget winch and snagged up the prior model (gen 2 ) Smittybuilt 9500 for $260 off amazon.

As a general rule, you want your winch rated at at least 1.5x the gross weight of your vehicle, but doubling it is ideal. Remember they are rated at 0% grade pulling weight, so if pulling out of mud, over rocks, or just uphill, will add strain. At a 10% grade, most winches pulling power is reduced by half!

Sure a snatchblock will help, and effectively double the power (while cutting speed in half), but there are situations you may need a snatchblock with a larger winch because it's not quite enough. Just imagine climbing a ledge, needing your winch, and that little 4k snaps half way up...could be nasty! I'd rather have the security of a properly sized winch, than save a couple lbs, it's not like we are building race cars here.
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Old 08-06-2020, 09:19 AM #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JZiggy View Post
But it doubles the pulling force minus minor frictional losses. Just takes twice as much line to do the same work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmArak View Post
I fully understand the physics behind it. A single snatch block WILL double the pulling force because it provides a mechanical advantage. Obviously the winch isn't getting more powerful!
Ok- I am puzzled- if one uses a single pulley to, say lift a 100lb load, it still takes 100 lbs of force to do it. IOW if 2ft of line is pulled in the load still moves 2ft.

It does seem places like Warn's site says it double pulling power so I'll have to agree I was wrong. I still don't get it though!
Off to study.....
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Old 08-06-2020, 09:28 AM #19
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Originally Posted by Sky View Post
Ok- I am puzzled- if one uses a single pulley to, say lift a 100lb load, it still takes 100 lbs of force to do it. IOW if 2ft of line is pulled in the load still moves 2ft.

It does seem places like Warn's site says it double pulling power so I'll have to agree I was wrong. I still don't get it though!
Off to study.....
Start by clarifying the difference between force, work/energy, and power.

I hate it when marketing folks use the wrong mechanical term. Sounds like that's what Warn did here. This would be like saying shifting into 4LO gives you 2.7x the *power* as 4HI (hint: it don't).
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Old 08-06-2020, 11:44 AM #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky View Post
Ok- I am puzzled- if one uses a single pulley to, say lift a 100lb load, it still takes 100 lbs of force to do it. IOW if 2ft of line is pulled in the load still moves 2ft.

It does seem places like Warn's site says it double pulling power so I'll have to agree I was wrong. I still don't get it though!
Off to study.....
Why Snatch Blocks are AWESOME (How Pulleys Work) - Smarter Every Day 228 - YouTube

This video should clear it up. This guy's really good.
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Old 08-06-2020, 01:13 PM #21
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How they rate winches is not by a metric anyone would envision looking at the specs.
A 4000# winch will not hang your 3800# 4runner in a tree. Not even close.
An 8000# winch won’t either. Not without some snatch blocks.

Where you get into trouble with the small winches is their cable, structure, and mounting hardware. They just aren’t built stout enough for a 4000# vehicle.

You put a 2500# on a medium to small 4 wheeler.
You put a 3500# on a large 4 wheeler or smaller side by side.
You put a 4000# or 5000# on the larger side by sides and Mini trucks, maybe a Samari.
You put a 8000# on small rigs like 2 door Tacoma, wrangler, ect...

You want 2x the gross weight or more.

I don’t know anyone that’s owned and used an 8k Winch that would consider going smaller.
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Old 08-06-2020, 01:23 PM #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmArak View Post
Why Snatch Blocks are AWESOME (How Pulleys Work) - Smarter Every Day 228 - YouTube

This video should clear it up. This guy's really good.
snatch blocks are minimally useful for direction changes. block and tackle are where it's at if you really really want to do stuff.

I raised all of these timbers alone, by hand with just rigging. I also cut them but... that is a different story.

4000 lbs winch enough?

4000 lbs winch enough?

4000 lbs winch enough?
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Old 08-06-2020, 01:37 PM #23
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Originally Posted by sleepydad View Post
snatch blocks are minimally useful for direction changes. block and tackle are where it's at if you really really want to do stuff.

I raised all of these timbers alone, by hand with just rigging. I also cut them but... that is a different story.

4000 lbs winch enough?

4000 lbs winch enough?

4000 lbs winch enough?
Nice work, that looks awesome!

Ya pulleys are super powerful if you know how to use them. This is why I was wondering if a low power winch with some pulleys can replace a high power one. Looks like most people say that just getting a high powered winch will be easier in the long run.
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Old 08-06-2020, 01:45 PM #24
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Unless you have the extras already, I'm sure that a 4k winch + snatch block + line extender is going to cost more than just a simple 8k winch...
That's a really good point... if not for cost, then for storage space. Our truck tend to fill up pretty fast.
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Old 08-06-2020, 02:01 PM #25
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Nice work, that looks awesome!

Ya pulleys are super powerful if you know how to use them. This is why I was wondering if a low power winch with some pulleys can replace a high power one. Looks like most people say that just getting a high powered winch will be easier in the long run.
Don't forget that a lot of the smaller winches also carry much less line. With rigging you are giving up speed - and pulling more line to make up for it.... with a shorter line available! (you can't run through a pulley with your line extension joint) Also, don't forget that you loose pulling power as the line spools up on the winch. All things are working against you here...

-Charlie
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Old 08-06-2020, 02:07 PM #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rideexileex View Post
Unless you have the extras already, I'm sure that a 4k winch + snatch block + line extender is going to cost more than just a simple 8k winch...
Quote:
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That's a really good point... if not for cost, then for storage space. Our truck tend to fill up pretty fast.
For sure the extras are pretty expensive. I already have the snatch blocks. Do you guys know whats a good line extender I can get? It seems useful regardless of the winch I get.
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Old 08-06-2020, 02:11 PM #27
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Originally Posted by phattyduck View Post
Don't forget that a lot of the smaller winches also carry much less line. With rigging you are giving up speed - and pulling more line to make up for it.... with a shorter line available! (you can't run through a pulley with your line extension joint) Also, don't forget that you loose pulling power as the line spools up on the winch. All things are working against you here...

-Charlie
Good Points! What is a good length for a winch line that I should look for? Are there any disadvantages to having too long of a line?
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Old 08-06-2020, 02:22 PM #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmArak View Post
Nice work, that looks awesome!

Ya pulleys are super powerful if you know how to use them. This is why I was wondering if a low power winch with some pulleys can replace a high power one. Looks like most people say that just getting a high powered winch will be easier in the long run.
it really depends. most of the time people who get stuck just need a little pull and they can drive out. it's those times when they are bogged down and pulling them out also brings the stump that is hooked onto the rear axle assembly. These are the times when that capacity is the difference between getting them out or not.

I used to fish in very remote places where spending 8+ hours on logging roads was no uncommon. we used our winches to pull out boats/trailers that were stuck in boggy lake shores. you would have to rest the winch or it would overheat and pop the thermal.

that is why I think it depends on how hard you expect to use it. if your just doing trails on the weekends? it might be OK to get an underrated winch.
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Old 08-06-2020, 02:42 PM #29
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it really depends. most of the time people who get stuck just need a little pull and they can drive out. it's those times when they are bogged down and pulling them out also brings the stump that is hooked onto the rear axle assembly. These are the times when that capacity is the difference between getting them out or not.

I used to fish in very remote places where spending 8+ hours on logging roads was no uncommon. we used our winches to pull out boats/trailers that were stuck in boggy lake shores. you would have to rest the winch or it would overheat and pop the thermal.

that is why I think it depends on how hard you expect to use it. if your just doing trails on the weekends? it might be OK to get an underrated winch.
Thanks. I expect to use it for mostly "utilitarian" stuff like that and the occasional weekend trail.
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