08-05-2020, 10:17 PM
|
#16
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,488
Real Name: Andy ಠ_ಠ
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,488
Real Name: Andy ಠ_ಠ
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3bears
sorry ...not meaning to thread jack, but the facebook listed above replied and has no idea what we are talking about'
its kind of related as it deals with winch stuff
edit: there is a Amp'd llc...not amp'd up llc...the first makes t shirts....my error
|
I was totally ready to build my own plate just like that one and keep my stock bumper maybe 2 weeks ago. then I order an addicted offroad front tube bumper so... that happened.
still the basic winch mounted plate thing looks great and it only adds minimal weight + winch. I like it.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
08-06-2020, 07:24 AM
|
#17
|
|
Junior Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5
|
|
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5
|
I was just in the market for a budget winch and snagged up the prior model (gen 2 ) Smittybuilt 9500 for $260 off amazon.
As a general rule, you want your winch rated at at least 1.5x the gross weight of your vehicle, but doubling it is ideal. Remember they are rated at 0% grade pulling weight, so if pulling out of mud, over rocks, or just uphill, will add strain. At a 10% grade, most winches pulling power is reduced by half!
Sure a snatchblock will help, and effectively double the power (while cutting speed in half), but there are situations you may need a snatchblock with a larger winch because it's not quite enough. Just imagine climbing a ledge, needing your winch, and that little 4k snaps half way up...could be nasty! I'd rather have the security of a properly sized winch, than save a couple lbs, it's not like we are building race cars here.
__________________
1999 4Runner, D60/10.5", 538s, ARBs, 40s
2008 Tundra, 5.7, 4x4, doublecab, DD/towing
2009 Rav4 Limited, Wifey's ride
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
08-06-2020, 09:19 AM
|
#18
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: SC/NC
Posts: 232
|
|
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: SC/NC
Posts: 232
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by JZiggy
But it doubles the pulling force minus minor frictional losses. Just takes twice as much line to do the same work.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmArak
I fully understand the physics behind it. A single snatch block WILL double the pulling force because it provides a mechanical advantage. Obviously the winch isn't getting more powerful!
|
Ok- I am puzzled- if one uses a single pulley to, say lift a 100lb load, it still takes 100 lbs of force to do it. IOW if 2ft of line is pulled in the load still moves 2ft.
It does seem places like Warn's site says it double pulling power so I'll have to agree I was wrong. I still don't get it though!
Off to study.....
__________________
2019 4Runner TRD Off Road Premium
2011 FJ Cruiser TRD
1974 FJ40 (wish I still had it)
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
08-06-2020, 09:28 AM
|
#19
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 2,259
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 2,259
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky
Ok- I am puzzled- if one uses a single pulley to, say lift a 100lb load, it still takes 100 lbs of force to do it. IOW if 2ft of line is pulled in the load still moves 2ft.
It does seem places like Warn's site says it double pulling power so I'll have to agree I was wrong. I still don't get it though!
Off to study.....
|
Start by clarifying the difference between force, work/energy, and power.
I hate it when marketing folks use the wrong mechanical term. Sounds like that's what Warn did here. This would be like saying shifting into 4LO gives you 2.7x the *power* as 4HI (hint: it don't).
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
08-06-2020, 11:44 AM
|
#20
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Southern California
Age: 21
Posts: 248
|
|
Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Southern California
Age: 21
Posts: 248
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky
Ok- I am puzzled- if one uses a single pulley to, say lift a 100lb load, it still takes 100 lbs of force to do it. IOW if 2ft of line is pulled in the load still moves 2ft.
It does seem places like Warn's site says it double pulling power so I'll have to agree I was wrong. I still don't get it though!
Off to study.....
|
Why Snatch Blocks are AWESOME (How Pulleys Work) - Smarter Every Day 228 - YouTube
This video should clear it up. This guy's really good.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
08-06-2020, 01:13 PM
|
#21
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: SW Washington
Posts: 595
|
|
Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: SW Washington
Posts: 595
|
How they rate winches is not by a metric anyone would envision looking at the specs.
A 4000# winch will not hang your 3800# 4runner in a tree. Not even close.
An 8000# winch won’t either. Not without some snatch blocks.
Where you get into trouble with the small winches is their cable, structure, and mounting hardware. They just aren’t built stout enough for a 4000# vehicle.
You put a 2500# on a medium to small 4 wheeler.
You put a 3500# on a large 4 wheeler or smaller side by side.
You put a 4000# or 5000# on the larger side by sides and Mini trucks, maybe a Samari.
You put a 8000# on small rigs like 2 door Tacoma, wrangler, ect...
You want 2x the gross weight or more.
I don’t know anyone that’s owned and used an 8k Winch that would consider going smaller.
__________________
Owned 82, 83, 87 pickup, 98, 99 SR5 4runner
Currently own a 98 SR5, 5spd, 4x4, e-locker, no sunroof. 2012 LTD with the normal options.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
08-06-2020, 01:23 PM
|
#22
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,488
Real Name: Andy ಠ_ಠ
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,488
Real Name: Andy ಠ_ಠ
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmArak
|
snatch blocks are minimally useful for direction changes. block and tackle are where it's at if you really really want to do stuff.
I raised all of these timbers alone, by hand with just rigging. I also cut them but... that is a different story.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
08-06-2020, 01:37 PM
|
#23
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Southern California
Age: 21
Posts: 248
|
|
Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Southern California
Age: 21
Posts: 248
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepydad
snatch blocks are minimally useful for direction changes. block and tackle are where it's at if you really really want to do stuff.
I raised all of these timbers alone, by hand with just rigging. I also cut them but... that is a different story.
|
Nice work, that looks awesome!
Ya pulleys are super powerful if you know how to use them. This is why I was wondering if a low power winch with some pulleys can replace a high power one. Looks like most people say that just getting a high powered winch will be easier in the long run.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
08-06-2020, 01:45 PM
|
#24
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: CA
Posts: 3,528
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: CA
Posts: 3,528
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by rideexileex
Unless you have the extras already, I'm sure that a 4k winch + snatch block + line extender is going to cost more than just a simple 8k winch...
|
That's a really good point... if not for cost, then for storage space. Our truck tend to fill up pretty fast.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
08-06-2020, 02:01 PM
|
#25
|
Elite Member
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 5,414
|
|
Elite Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 5,414
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmArak
Nice work, that looks awesome!
Ya pulleys are super powerful if you know how to use them. This is why I was wondering if a low power winch with some pulleys can replace a high power one. Looks like most people say that just getting a high powered winch will be easier in the long run.
|
Don't forget that a lot of the smaller winches also carry much less line. With rigging you are giving up speed - and pulling more line to make up for it.... with a shorter line available! (you can't run through a pulley with your line extension joint) Also, don't forget that you loose pulling power as the line spools up on the winch. All things are working against you here...
-Charlie
__________________
'99 4Runner SR5 Auto - 4WD swapped
'89 Camry Alltrac LE 3S-GTE 5spd
'17 Chevy Volt Premier
'16 Honda Odyssey Elite
Previous: '88 Camry Alltrac LE 3S-GE BEAMS, 90 Camry 3S-GTE, 90 Camry DX, '03 WRX wagon, '08 Outback XT
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
08-06-2020, 02:07 PM
|
#26
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Southern California
Age: 21
Posts: 248
|
|
Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Southern California
Age: 21
Posts: 248
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by rideexileex
Unless you have the extras already, I'm sure that a 4k winch + snatch block + line extender is going to cost more than just a simple 8k winch...
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumbo
That's a really good point... if not for cost, then for storage space. Our truck tend to fill up pretty fast.
|
For sure the extras are pretty expensive. I already have the snatch blocks. Do you guys know whats a good line extender I can get? It seems useful regardless of the winch I get.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
08-06-2020, 02:11 PM
|
#27
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Southern California
Age: 21
Posts: 248
|
|
Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Southern California
Age: 21
Posts: 248
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by phattyduck
Don't forget that a lot of the smaller winches also carry much less line. With rigging you are giving up speed - and pulling more line to make up for it.... with a shorter line available! (you can't run through a pulley with your line extension joint) Also, don't forget that you loose pulling power as the line spools up on the winch. All things are working against you here...
-Charlie
|
Good Points! What is a good length for a winch line that I should look for? Are there any disadvantages to having too long of a line?
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
08-06-2020, 02:22 PM
|
#28
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,488
Real Name: Andy ಠ_ಠ
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,488
Real Name: Andy ಠ_ಠ
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmArak
Nice work, that looks awesome!
Ya pulleys are super powerful if you know how to use them. This is why I was wondering if a low power winch with some pulleys can replace a high power one. Looks like most people say that just getting a high powered winch will be easier in the long run.
|
it really depends. most of the time people who get stuck just need a little pull and they can drive out. it's those times when they are bogged down and pulling them out also brings the stump that is hooked onto the rear axle assembly. These are the times when that capacity is the difference between getting them out or not.
I used to fish in very remote places where spending 8+ hours on logging roads was no uncommon. we used our winches to pull out boats/trailers that were stuck in boggy lake shores. you would have to rest the winch or it would overheat and pop the thermal.
that is why I think it depends on how hard you expect to use it. if your just doing trails on the weekends? it might be OK to get an underrated winch.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
08-06-2020, 02:42 PM
|
#29
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Southern California
Age: 21
Posts: 248
|
|
Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Southern California
Age: 21
Posts: 248
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepydad
it really depends. most of the time people who get stuck just need a little pull and they can drive out. it's those times when they are bogged down and pulling them out also brings the stump that is hooked onto the rear axle assembly. These are the times when that capacity is the difference between getting them out or not.
I used to fish in very remote places where spending 8+ hours on logging roads was no uncommon. we used our winches to pull out boats/trailers that were stuck in boggy lake shores. you would have to rest the winch or it would overheat and pop the thermal.
that is why I think it depends on how hard you expect to use it. if your just doing trails on the weekends? it might be OK to get an underrated winch.
|
Thanks. I expect to use it for mostly "utilitarian" stuff like that and the occasional weekend trail.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is On
|
|
|
|