08-18-2020, 09:30 PM
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#16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiLife
Inner seal. I would double check to make sure the whole seal itself is still sealing and square against the axle tube and check the rubber portion part of the inner seal hasn't been compromised by the axle install.
You did your research before tackling this, not implying you did a bad job. It's just one of those things that happen to everyone of us from time to time.
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I agree. I did just that last month and then gave it some time to see what changes there would be before posting here. the inner seals look brand new. literally, brand new. I checked them w/ calipers. Can't imagine them being more perpendicular to the axle housing.
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08-18-2020, 09:34 PM
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#17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlake
I went round and round with my axles seals. First two times I bought oem seals. The oem seals were the new style seal(at the time I didn't know there was two styles}. I figured the oem seals were the issue. I finally looked at a Napa seal. It was the old style. Finally swapped ends with ring that seal rest on. Problem solved. I don't know if the old style Napa seal would have worked with out swapping ends the the ring.
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i'm running the newer seals and not only did i reverse the inner retainer ring, i switched it with the outer retainer ring.
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08-18-2020, 10:12 PM
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#18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psea17
i'm running the newer seals and not only did i reverse the inner retainer ring, i switched it with the outer retainer ring.
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It sounds like to me you did everything perfect. Just like my buddy Wei's issue, we can't figure out why gear oil is still able to get past the seal.
I think what
@ Bad Luck
did with the axle seal might be something to try especially if someone did use a hook style seal puller and accidentally gouged the surface of the axle housing. A gouge or imperfection of the inside of the axle housing might allow gear oil to get past the seal. The gear oil isn't sneaking past the rubber part of the seal but rather getting past the seal at the outer most metal circumference.
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08-18-2020, 10:51 PM
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#19
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I have read that green Loctite #290 Wicking Grade can be used to seal the outer edge of an installed oil seal.
I have not tried this myself.
The idea is that it wicks into any gaps. I think to make it work best you'd have to remove the axle from the vehicle, stand it on end and do one side.
Let it stand until that side's dry and then do the other end. I didn't say it wasn't a lot of work. But when one has exhausted one's bag of tricks, one does desperate things.
I stumbled upon this recently while searching for a way to make a new oil seal on a small Honda motorcycle stop leaking.
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08-19-2020, 12:31 AM
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#20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbtim
It sounds like to me you did everything perfect. Just like my buddy Wei's issue, we can't figure out why gear oil is still able to get past the seal.
I think what
@ Bad Luck
did with the axle seal might be something to try especially if someone did use a hook style seal puller and accidentally gouged the surface of the axle housing. A gouge or imperfection of the inside of the axle housing might allow gear oil to get past the seal. The gear oil isn't sneaking past the rubber part of the seal but rather getting past the seal at the outer most metal circumference.
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perhaps we're loading the rear axle too much?? I tow a trailer from time to time. or maybe it's how we're using it. I do forest roads probably more often than others.
or is there any chance when they revised the seals, the retainer rings were modified?
just thinking out loud.
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08-19-2020, 12:55 AM
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#21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbtim
It sounds like to me you did everything perfect.
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...I had a great teacher! ;-)
wonder if anyone has tried these seals: Toyota(R) Seals Archives - Yotamasters
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08-19-2020, 09:08 AM
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#22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psea17
perhaps we're loading the rear axle too much?? I tow a trailer from time to time. or maybe it's how we're using it. I do forest roads probably more often than others.
or is there any chance when they revised the seals, the retainer rings were modified?
just thinking out loud.
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You installed new wheel bearings so I don't think there's an overload issue. A lot of people tow more weight and more often without issue.
In my case I'm 99 percent sure it was leaking between the seal and axle housing. Most of GM seals that I've installed have a rubber ring or coating between the outside of the seal and whatever it is being installed in to seal it during install. Our Toyota axle seal doesn't have that and relies entirely on good metal to metal contact. My recommendation is to try my method of using axle sealant to install another set of axle seals. If you decide to go that route I used Permatex Gear Oil Gasket Maker. It recommends a 24 hour cure before exposing it to gear oil. I only had 3 hours to let it cure before filling my axle and driving home.
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08-19-2020, 09:56 AM
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#23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Luck
You installed new wheel bearings so I don't think there's an overload issue. A lot of people tow more weight and more often without issue.
In my case I'm 99 percent sure it was leaking between the seal and axle housing. Most of GM seals that I've installed have a rubber ring or coating between the outside of the seal and whatever it is being installed in to seal it during install. Our Toyota axle seal doesn't have that and relies entirely on good metal to metal contact. My recommendation is to try my method of using axle sealant to install another set of axle seals. If you decide to go that route I used Permatex Gear Oil Gasket Maker. It recommends a 24 hour cure before exposing it to gear oil. I only had 3 hours to let it cure before filling my axle and driving home.
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The Toyota Red FIPG would work too.
*Toyota FIPG 1281 - (For Transmissions, Transfer Cases and Differentials)
Amazon.com: Genuine Toyota Fluid 00295-01281 Formed-in-Place Transmission Gasket - 3.5 oz. Tube: Automotive
I'm going to suggest this to my buddy Wei for him to try out as well.
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08-19-2020, 12:28 PM
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#24
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There is the possibility that the old gear oil is still trapped between the bearing hub and the outer dust cap, which cant be seen unless you completely disassemble the axle. It might just be still spinning out. When I did mine, I used gear oil compatible silicone sealant at the joint of the inner retainer and axle on the inboard side. i also smeared a little on the outside joint of the seal and axle housing. Anywhere it could possible leak, I sealed it. If you didnt put grease on the seal and retainer before reassembly, a dry seal will burn out in just a couple of miles. So even though the grease test shows good placement, a burned seal will still leak.
I’m not sure where Tim said to add bearing grease on the bearing, but you should be able to pop off the cover from the bearing and repack it. Its just a plastic cover. Lithium grease is preferred. Other greases like Mobil 1 grease separates and would leak out like a watery goo. Lithium is less affected by the heat of the bearing. And you dont want to overfill it like a needle bearing setup.
If you have just a slight bit of gear oil on the abs tone ring, The axle seal can’t be the source. If the oil is leaking past the Axle seal, the volume of gear oil would be large and messy.
Have you checked your brake cylinders for leaking brake fluid?
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Last edited by Drcoffee; 08-19-2020 at 12:40 PM.
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08-19-2020, 12:37 PM
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#25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psea17
i'm running the newer seals and not only did i reverse the inner retainer ring, i switched it with the outer retainer ring.
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So lets talk about this. You pressed off the two retainers and reused them both? That would be a mistake. You can reuse a retainer on the outboard retainer. But you must use a new retainer on the inboard side. When that retainer is installed, it stretches And gets gouged. Its a metal to metal seal. Oil is bound to leak past it now. Since its installed, pull the axle, clean with acetone and use a gear oil compatible silicone or FIPG and seal the inner side of the retainer to the axle. Let it cure and reinstall the axle. The seal should still be good.
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08-19-2020, 01:29 PM
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#26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drcoffee
There is the possibility that the old gear oil is still trapped between the bearing hub and the outer dust cap, which cant be seen unless you completely disassemble the axle. It might just be still spinning out. When I did mine, I used gear oil compatible silicone sealant at the joint of the inner retainer and axle on the inboard side. i also smeared a little on the outside joint of the seal and axle housing. Anywhere it could possible leak, I sealed it. If you didnt put grease on the seal and retainer before reassembly, a dry seal will burn out in just a couple of miles. So even though the grease test shows good placement, a burned seal will still leak.
I’m not sure where Tim said to add bearing grease on the bearing, but you should be able to pop off the cover from the bearing and repack it. Its just a plastic cover. Lithium grease is preferred. Other greases like Mobil 1 grease separates and would leak out like a watery goo. Lithium is less affected by the heat of the bearing. And you dont want to overfill it like a needle bearing setup.
If you have just a slight bit of gear oil on the abs tone ring, The axle seal can’t be the source. If the oil is leaking past the Axle seal, the volume of gear oil would be large and messy.
Have you checked your brake cylinders for leaking brake fluid?
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Wow Doc! A lot to consider. I didn't realize I could do a bearing job and not completely disassemble the axle. I replaced the outter dust cap as well. a small amount of grease was used on the exterior of the inner seal. A small amount was put on the inner retainer ring. i used Red 'n Tacky lithium grease for this job. I also put just a slight coat around the perimeter of the bearing to help it seat easily.
Since I checked the seating of the seal last month to the other day, it's definitely not what I would call a large mess of oil. I'm liking the idea of using a sealant. I'm going to give that a try.
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08-19-2020, 01:32 PM
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#27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drcoffee
So lets talk about this. You pressed off the two retainers and reused them both? That would be a mistake. You can reuse a retainer on the outboard retainer. But you must use a new retainer on the inboard side. When that retainer is installed, it stretches And gets gouged. Its a metal to metal seal. Oil is bound to leak past it now. Since its installed, pull the axle, clean with acetone and use a gear oil compatible silicone or FIPG and seal the inner side of the retainer to the axle. Let it cure and reinstall the axle. The seal should still be good.
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certainly a possibility. but i have to admit, the inner ring definitely needed a press to get it in place. it wasn't like it was loose or anything. inspection didn't show any signs of gouging on the inside surfaces of either ring, nor the axle shaft.
I think I have some FIPG. I'll give that a try.
Appreciate EVERYONE'S HELP AND INPUT...A LOT!
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08-19-2020, 07:24 PM
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#28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drcoffee
So lets talk about this. You pressed off the two retainers and reused them both? That would be a mistake. You can reuse a retainer on the outboard retainer. But you must use a new retainer on the inboard side. When that retainer is installed, it stretches And gets gouged. Its a metal to metal seal. Oil is bound to leak past it now. Since its installed, pull the axle, clean with acetone and use a gear oil compatible silicone or FIPG and seal the inner side of the retainer to the axle. Let it cure and reinstall the axle. The seal should still be good.
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I never considered this being an issue reusing the retainers, because like the OP said, and from my experience of doing this job over a dozen times, even though the retainer has been pressed on, pulled off and then now pressed on again, could gear oil really get past the retainer? I've never noticed any damage to the inner diameter of the retainer. It's smooth as can be. And, since it's still a press fit and still requires force to be installed, I don't see how gear oil is able to get past. But, now you got me thinking that this is a possibility.
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08-19-2020, 07:31 PM
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#29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbtim
I never considered this being an issue reusing the retainers, because like the OP said, and from my experience of doing this job over a dozen times, even though the retainer has been pressed on, pulled off and then now pressed on again, could gear oil really get past the retainer? I've never noticed any damage to the inner diameter of the retainer. It's smooth as can be. And, since it's still a press fit and still requires force to be installed, I don't see how gear oil is able to get past. But, now you got me thinking that this is a possibility.
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During my research to fix my truck, I came across discussion where this could be a possible issue. If the retainer is not perfectly round, which you cant verify just by looking at it, Or a hair sized scratch occured during install or removal, yes oil can leak by it. These retainers are only $12. For me, after doing this 4 times, I wasnt thinkIng it was so much, I hope to do it again. So I sealed every possible spot it could leak from. Did it need it? I dont know. But I wanted to be sure.
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08-19-2020, 07:35 PM
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#30
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looking forward to doing my seals soon...
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