User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-02-2020, 11:41 AM #1
Roger.klotz Roger.klotz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: AZ
Posts: 32
Roger.klotz is on a distinguished road
Roger.klotz Roger.klotz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: AZ
Posts: 32
Roger.klotz is on a distinguished road
99 limited - D and L light up at the same time

99 limited 4wd auto 3.4 290,000k

I’m having a hard time figuring this one out. Here are the symptoms: The gear indicator lights in the cluster for D and L are lighting up at the same time. The transmission feels like it’s in L when in D. The 10a fuse for the gauges blow shortly after this issue presents itself. After the fuse blows, the transmission feels normal in D.

So far I have done a few things to troubleshoot. I found and insulated a slightly exposed green wire under the dash that was tapped for a trailer brake harness. I removed the neutral safety switch, cleaned the contacts, adjusted and installed. I replaced the blue shifter bushings. I replaced the cluster. I replaced an Abs sensor on the front driver side. Installed a scan gauge 2 to check for Stored codes.

After I did all of the above, The issue went away for about a week. I hit a bump this morning and the transmission felt like it shifted into L. At the same time the indicator light for L came on faintly with the D still lit up. I shifted into 2 and drove towards home. I hit another bump and the 10a fuse for the gauges blew. After I lost my gauges, I was able to shift into D and drive home.

Video of issue
99 4Runner Automatic transmission dash indicator light issue - YouTube
Roger.klotz is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 10-02-2020, 12:42 PM #2
phattyduck phattyduck is online now
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 5,380
phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute
phattyduck phattyduck is online now
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 5,380
phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute
Oh, man... I was going to suggest gauge cluster until I saw that you already replaced it.

What else... the gauge fuse is connected to a bunch of different systems in the car - but issues in most of those would not affect the gear indicator lights.

I'd do a very close inspection of the wiring harness from the neutral safety switch all the way up to the ECU. You might want to open up the ECU and check for burned and/or damaged components.

Try the original gauge cluster and see if the problem happens with a different frequency with that one.

-Charlie
__________________
'99 4Runner SR5 Auto - 4WD swapped
'89 Camry Alltrac LE 3S-GTE 5spd
'17 Chevy Volt Premier
'16 Honda Odyssey Elite
Previous: '88 Camry Alltrac LE 3S-GE BEAMS, 90 Camry 3S-GTE, 90 Camry DX, '03 WRX wagon, '08 Outback XT
phattyduck is online now   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 10-02-2020, 12:58 PM #3
Roger.klotz Roger.klotz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: AZ
Posts: 32
Roger.klotz is on a distinguished road
Roger.klotz Roger.klotz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: AZ
Posts: 32
Roger.klotz is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by phattyduck View Post
Oh, man... I was going to suggest gauge cluster until I saw that you already replaced it.

What else... the gauge fuse is connected to a bunch of different systems in the car - but issues in most of those would not affect the gear indicator lights.

I'd do a very close inspection of the wiring harness from the neutral safety switch all the way up to the ECU. You might want to open up the ECU and check for burned and/or damaged components.

Try the original gauge cluster and see if the problem happens with a different frequency with that one.

-Charlie
I didn’t think to check the ECU. I’ll take a look and see if anything stands out.
I suspect a short in the the neutrals safety switch, the harness, or connector, but after looking at diagrams in a Haynes manual I’m not sure how to go about testing these things.

I removed the neutral safety switch from the trans and left the harness connected. I laid under the truck and manually turned the thing while a friend watched the gears indicators change. I was not able to recreate the scenario where both D and L light up together. As far as I can tell, the NSS is what determines which light is on in the dash.
Roger.klotz is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 10-02-2020, 02:26 PM #4
Roger.klotz Roger.klotz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: AZ
Posts: 32
Roger.klotz is on a distinguished road
Roger.klotz Roger.klotz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: AZ
Posts: 32
Roger.klotz is on a distinguished road
Pictures of dash and NSS connector.
Attached Images
99 limited - D and L light up at the same time-2649f1ef-e6ee-4435-afdc-9677356fbac0-jpeg  99 limited - D and L light up at the same time-03f0bcee-8c8b-433a-a1e4-4dadc0d0992b-jpeg 
Roger.klotz is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 10-02-2020, 03:23 PM #5
Roger.klotz Roger.klotz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: AZ
Posts: 32
Roger.klotz is on a distinguished road
Roger.klotz Roger.klotz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: AZ
Posts: 32
Roger.klotz is on a distinguished road
I removed the ECU from behind the glove box and nothing stands out on the circuit board.
Attached Images
99 limited - D and L light up at the same time-a3877766-2461-49ac-8bf4-f33874cba18e-jpeg  99 limited - D and L light up at the same time-91b9ed80-506a-4042-814d-016f5e5b39c0-jpeg 
Roger.klotz is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 10-02-2020, 03:24 PM #6
sleepydad's Avatar
sleepydad sleepydad is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,488
Real Name: Andy ಠ_ಠ
sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of
sleepydad sleepydad is offline
Senior Member
sleepydad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,488
Real Name: Andy ಠ_ಠ
sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger.klotz View Post
I didn’t think to check the ECU. I’ll take a look and see if anything stands out.
I suspect a short in the the neutrals safety switch, the harness, or connector, but after looking at diagrams in a Haynes manual I’m not sure how to go about testing these things.

I removed the neutral safety switch from the trans and left the harness connected. I laid under the truck and manually turned the thing while a friend watched the gears indicators change. I was not able to recreate the scenario where both D and L light up together. As far as I can tell, the NSS is what determines which light is on in the dash.

yikes this might be easy but... sounds like the light green and white red are getting combined.

62 Combination Meter (1999 4Runner)
07 Overall Electrical Wiring Diagram (1999 4Runner).pdf - Google Drive

07 Overall Electrical Wiring Diagram (1999 4Runner)
62 Combination Meter (1999 4Runner).pdf - Google Drive

note: I just went thru a tracking down similar wires myself on a 1998 so it's different but the II1 and II3 are involved over on the passenger side in glove compartment area.

the transmission wires are in with the engine wire-> enters the cabin on the passenger side in that big rubber accordion guy. the combination meter is connected to the body harness thru II1,II3.

all the E9-E11 connectors on the ECU should not have anything to do with it IMO.

there must be some damage to those two wires someplace and it's causing them to combine their signals.
sleepydad is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 10-02-2020, 04:38 PM #7
Roger.klotz Roger.klotz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: AZ
Posts: 32
Roger.klotz is on a distinguished road
Roger.klotz Roger.klotz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: AZ
Posts: 32
Roger.klotz is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepydad View Post
yikes this might be easy but... sounds like the light green and white red are getting combined.

62 Combination Meter (1999 4Runner)
07 Overall Electrical Wiring Diagram (1999 4Runner).pdf - Google Drive

07 Overall Electrical Wiring Diagram (1999 4Runner)
62 Combination Meter (1999 4Runner).pdf - Google Drive

note: I just went thru a tracking down similar wires myself on a 1998 so it's different but the II1 and II3 are involved over on the passenger side in glove compartment area.

the transmission wires are in with the engine wire-> enters the cabin on the passenger side in that big rubber accordion guy. the combination meter is connected to the body harness thru II1,II3.

all the E9-E11 connectors on the ECU should not have anything to do with it IMO.

there must be some damage to those two wires someplace and it's causing them to combine their signals.
Thank you so much! I located the harness/connector from the NSS behind the glove box. Unplugging this connector turns the indicator lights off on the dash. Hopefully the issue is easier to isolate now.
Attached Images
99 limited - D and L light up at the same time-74c89db4-6c82-4932-a520-eb9ca9910faf-jpeg 
Roger.klotz is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 10-02-2020, 05:37 PM #8
sleepydad's Avatar
sleepydad sleepydad is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,488
Real Name: Andy ಠ_ಠ
sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of
sleepydad sleepydad is offline
Senior Member
sleepydad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,488
Real Name: Andy ಠ_ಠ
sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger.klotz View Post
Thank you so much! I located the harness/connector from the NSS behind the glove box. Unplugging this connector turns the indicator lights off on the dash. Hopefully the issue is easier to isolate now.
yes I would think you could check for continuity in the 2 wires upstream and down stream of that connector? I think. this way it tells if it's engine side wire harness or body harness. either way it's not going to be fun to track that down.

post back I would love to know what is happening here?
sleepydad is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 10-02-2020, 05:39 PM #9
Roger.klotz Roger.klotz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: AZ
Posts: 32
Roger.klotz is on a distinguished road
Roger.klotz Roger.klotz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: AZ
Posts: 32
Roger.klotz is on a distinguished road
I connected a multimeter to each end of the connector behind the glove box and tested continuity between light green and white/red. I also tested light green to ground and white/red to ground. This should tell me if the wires are making contact with each other somewhere right? It’s been awhile since I’ve used a multimeter for more than voltage. If I should be testing a different way please let me know.

Battery is disconnected, NSS is disconnected.
Glove box connector:
Light green to white/red -.4 k ohms
Light green to ground - 5 k ohms
White/red to ground - 14 ohms

Under truck at NSS connector:
White/red to light green - .4K ohms
I ordered a replacement neutral safety switch as well.

Thank you
Attached Images
99 limited - D and L light up at the same time-e39f5465-5376-47cc-91c6-c4a229a07dd3-jpeg  99 limited - D and L light up at the same time-5f92db63-be5d-435e-8345-2f37a8650b1a-jpeg 

Last edited by Roger.klotz; 10-02-2020 at 06:38 PM.
Roger.klotz is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 10-02-2020, 06:43 PM #10
Roger.klotz Roger.klotz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: AZ
Posts: 32
Roger.klotz is on a distinguished road
Roger.klotz Roger.klotz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: AZ
Posts: 32
Roger.klotz is on a distinguished road
From what I can see under the truck the light green and white/red wires are across from each other in the connector. I drew squares around the ones I’m referring to. Can anyone confirm this?

The white/red hole looks like it’s melted at some point. I’m wondering if the short is in the connector.
Attached Images
99 limited - D and L light up at the same time-571465cc-916d-4862-8913-ff0e52afc343-jpeg 

Last edited by Roger.klotz; 10-02-2020 at 07:33 PM.
Roger.klotz is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 10-06-2020, 11:20 AM #11
Roger.klotz Roger.klotz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: AZ
Posts: 32
Roger.klotz is on a distinguished road
Roger.klotz Roger.klotz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: AZ
Posts: 32
Roger.klotz is on a distinguished road
Does anyone know if the engine/trans wiring harness can be replaced without major disassembly of the vehicle?

I need to get this thing back on the road.

Thank you
Roger.klotz is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 10-06-2020, 01:18 PM #12
phattyduck phattyduck is online now
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 5,380
phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute
phattyduck phattyduck is online now
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 5,380
phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute phattyduck has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger.klotz View Post
Does anyone know if the engine/trans wiring harness can be replaced without major disassembly of the vehicle?

I need to get this thing back on the road.

Thank you
The upper intake manifold has to come off along with the glove compartment, but not much else. The trans wiring will be a pain because the connectors get stuck due to dirt.

I haven't really heard of harness problems though, so that's a long shot.

The odd problems I had that were something like this (though, not the same) turned out to be the flex PCB on the back of the gauge cluster.

-Charlie
__________________
'99 4Runner SR5 Auto - 4WD swapped
'89 Camry Alltrac LE 3S-GTE 5spd
'17 Chevy Volt Premier
'16 Honda Odyssey Elite
Previous: '88 Camry Alltrac LE 3S-GE BEAMS, 90 Camry 3S-GTE, 90 Camry DX, '03 WRX wagon, '08 Outback XT
phattyduck is online now   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 10-08-2020, 05:59 PM #13
Roger.klotz Roger.klotz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: AZ
Posts: 32
Roger.klotz is on a distinguished road
Roger.klotz Roger.klotz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: AZ
Posts: 32
Roger.klotz is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by phattyduck View Post
The upper intake manifold has to come off along with the glove compartment, but not much else. The trans wiring will be a pain because the connectors get stuck due to dirt.

I haven't really heard of harness problems though, so that's a long shot.

The odd problems I had that were something like this (though, not the same) turned out to be the flex PCB on the back of the gauge cluster.

-Charlie
Thanks for the info. If it comes to replacing the harness, it sounds like something I can handle.
I replaced the cluster first thing after searching the forums but unfortunately the problem is deeper.
Roger.klotz is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 10-08-2020, 06:24 PM #14
gamefreakgc's Avatar
gamefreakgc gamefreakgc is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Citrus Heights, California
Age: 36
Posts: 7,330
Real Name: Jerod
gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future
gamefreakgc gamefreakgc is offline
Elite Member
gamefreakgc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Citrus Heights, California
Age: 36
Posts: 7,330
Real Name: Jerod
gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future gamefreakgc has a brilliant future
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger.klotz View Post
Thanks for the info. If it comes to replacing the harness, it sounds like something I can handle.
I replaced the cluster first thing after searching the forums but unfortunately the problem is deeper.
Finding a replacement wiring harness might be harder than it seems. There a several kinds for every model year for 2WD/4WD, CA emission vs Federal emissions, among other things. There is a part number printed on a white tag on the harness itself, I cannot remember exactly where it is though. That's what you'll want to find and match.
__________________
'98 4Runner SR5 - 4x4 JDM 5VZ-FE Supercharged - 249K miles.
326WHP 347TQ

AEM F/IC 6, 11 PSI, 3" Intake and 3" Exhaust
Jerod's Supercharged T[u]RD Build
gamefreakgc is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 10-09-2020, 02:13 PM #15
sleepydad's Avatar
sleepydad sleepydad is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,488
Real Name: Andy ಠ_ಠ
sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of
sleepydad sleepydad is offline
Senior Member
sleepydad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,488
Real Name: Andy ಠ_ಠ
sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of sleepydad has much to be proud of
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger.klotz View Post
Thanks for the info. If it comes to replacing the harness, it sounds like something I can handle.
I replaced the cluster first thing after searching the forums but unfortunately the problem is deeper.
so you were not able to track down the trouble? or you did and figured out there is damage someplace inside the harness?

I just did it on my 98, and it fixed my issue. truck runs great again.

replaced the starter + engine harness. As @phattyduck indicated you will need to remove the upper,lower intake to unhook the injectors. most of it is pretty straight forward but it took me several hours to get it all off without destroying anything.

also took me a couple of hours to get it all back on and some new intake gaskets along the way.

I got my harness from salvage place in rancho CA

Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market

searched for engine wire wire harness

called the place and neggoated price a little. $250 with shipping to my door.

make sure you get the vin and make sure it's the correct part for you truck. your wire harness should have a part number on it up where it connects to the ECU. should look something like this

99 limited - D and L light up at the same time

I think the part your after is

federal = 821213G311
California = 821213G341

California spec is the one for 2x catalytic convert trucks.

you should be able to find something like this one, not sure if this is the correct one but they are out there

2000 Toyota 4Runner Engine Wiring Harness-Stock# 180076

and one more thing... I did have to repair 2x connectors on the salvage harness. not a huge deal but depinning and swapping connectors can be a pain. the salvage guys can be a little angry when they remove things... just how it goes with salvage.

Last edited by sleepydad; 10-09-2020 at 02:22 PM.
sleepydad is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fuse , gauges , issue , replaced , time

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help, highs are on all the time after fog light mod Tempsho 4th Gen T4Rs 4 11-12-2009 12:53 AM
TCS OFF light on all the time sciff5 4th Gen T4Rs 3 01-11-2009 12:43 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:30 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
***This site is an unofficial Toyota site, and is not officially endorsed, supported, authorized by or affiliated with Toyota. All company, product, or service names references in this web site are used for identification purposes only and may be trademarks of their respective owners. The Toyota name, marks, designs and logos, as well as Toyota model names, are registered trademarks of Toyota Motor Corporation***Ad Management plugin by RedTyger
 
Copyright © 2020