I heard California’s trying to phase out all gas powered vehicles by 2035. Do you guys think eventually the whole country will do that? I’m scared that will happen. I do not want to drive a silent electric car!

I think one of two things will happen. Either electric cars will continue to drop in price and increase in range to a point where ICE cars are phased out by manufacturers due to lack of interest as we have seen over the last couple of decades with manual transmissions, and no legislation will be necessary because ICE engines will be a boutique brand thing. Or that demand based manufacturer lead phase out won;t happen fast enough and there will be legislation banning new ICE cars.

The more interesting question is will we in the states start to see more legislation like Europe has favored with taxing cars based on CO2 output and engine displacement, and in some cases banning older cars from city centers.

Not for any measure of time because a number of things, a big one is interstate commerce - this alone has many even doubting the legitimacy of this law as it stands.
Not to be rude or anything but this doesn't seem like the place for politics, and seems better fit in the General Discussion or Off Topic boards.

This has nothing to do with politics, that’s the last thing I’m trying to talk about. I just always liked driving late 90’s early 2000 vehicles. I want to drive them as long as I live. I don’t understand why you think this has to do with politics? I just brought up California because there the first state to bring this up.

Even if that is the case it will be more of a no new gas vehicles. So all of the old stuff like our 3rd gens will be grandfathered in I’m pretty sure.. The thing I’m worried about is once that starts happening gas prices are going to skyrocket cause it will be more of a rarity.

I live in CA so I was watching that development. Here's what I think will happen.

• Automakers will try and make electric cars in large quantities and slowly phase out gas vehicles.
• The market will become saturated with electric vehicles to the point where everyone who wanted one, has one
• Automakers will no longer sell enough EV's to make a profit
• Automakers lobby California's legislature to delay or revise the goal to something like 50% of all auto sales or push back another 5-10 years
• We keep driving gas powered cars past 2035.

Who ever heard of an all-electric Jeep Wranger or 4Runner? Are there any charging stations on the Rubicon? What would you rather buy, an all-electric Tesla or a supercharged, gas guslin' Dodge Demon or Helliphant (rhetorical questions). This law will not last, just like the Paris Climate Accord didn't last. There's not much point in reducing CA or even US emissions to 0 when you've got gross polluters like Russia, India and China.

Agreed.

You can hardly have this discussion without involving some level of politics. If electric cars improve enough, people will simply buy them of their own free will. Dunno why with some folks it has to be such a "my way or the highway" proposition.

Surely we can have a hybrid society of vehicles, gas and electric. The electric, no-cow meat people can toodle around saving the planet. The rest of the gas-powered heathens can cruise around to their heart's content, and we will STILL be putting out vastly lower C02 than Chyna, Russia, etc.

I don't understand why you think everyone who wants an EV would have one and demand would disappear?

Are you suggesting that the majority of consumers care about ICE vs electric beyond being concerned about having a place to charge, and possibly range anxiety? If those are overcome which I expect is likely in the next 15 years then I don't see a huge percentage of the population caring all that much about the transition.

Or are you suggesting that once someone buys a car they don't ever have need to go buy another one?

As far as your question about an all electric Jeep and charging stations on the Rubicon trail, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but the times are changing.

I mean, if it gets to that point I will just get some tesla batteries and motors in the 4Runner. I will not give up my 4Runner.


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The market will decide, mandates or not. IF the EV mfgs improve the energy storage capacity to ≈400 miles with the ability bring extra "fuel" if needed, and the cost of the vehicles comes down to "normal" levels, why not have an EV 4Runner or modern day equivalent. No engine noise, no poison gas coming out of it. I would accept a lighter, Subaru-sized body if the off-pavement ability was present. I'm not paying $50,000 or $75,000 for it, since I can have a really nice 1997 4Runner (or equivalent) for $12K or so.

Electric Jeep. Very cool.

Gradually, eventually, all new cars will be EVs.
Nothing to be afraid about.
I know lots of people who own electric cars and will not give them up. Some of them stopped driving their gas cars and got rid of them. They’re entirely electric now.

The big issue with electric cars and California is the electricity.
There is no clean way to get electricity. You either dam a river, make a wind farm, make a solar array farm, or maybe wave energy?
We all know about the negatives of whale oil and fossil fuels, we’re pretty learned about the negatives of dams, we’re yet to learn the negatives of sapping off wind energy, and solar arrays effects are still unknown other than the semiconductor fabs and all the chemicals it takes to make them.

California is already in an electricity crisis. They can’t really support more demand.

But, if push came to shove converting my 4-runner to electric would be cool. I don’t really like how the motors kind of obsolete the need for a manual transmission though.

If a coal plant or natural gas or nuclear plant makes your electricity for your car, is your electric car still zero emissions?

I live in Cali. Hardly think this will go into effect. The governor here is a straight moron. I do not think this will pass, I think it has to be voted in. Ill drive gas vehicles until Im thrown in jail. lol

Interesting discussion. I was thinking of building an electric 4 runner but it's not very economical to do. I do agree it's a cost issue. If energy costs become alot cheaper then gasoline and ranges increases significantly. ICE and gasoline engines will become whale oil.

These things take time though. Lots of $$ in the oil and natural gas industries that will lobby to leave it be.

Also in states like PA the tax the fuel to pay for road rebuilds. Would they tax the energy used in electric vehicles to pay for the roads rebuilds.

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I love my tacoma and 4runners too, but the day I can get a used reasonably priced electric truck I will be all over it. The potential is pretty amazing, complete independent suspension, and whatever drive wheel combination you want at the time because you can have a motor on each wheel with no drivetrain, just computers running the traction. Plus there is the ability to put a bunch of solar panels on your house and charge it yourself. As someone who has lived through the infrastructure destroyed more than once this is a big deal. As for the average consumer as soon as there is a charging infrastructure in place there is no reason to ever drive a gas vehicle again as the maintenance on an electric car is almost nothing. Also as pointed out there will always be exceptions grandfathered in for the diehards and long range applications.