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Old 10-20-2020, 09:24 PM #16
toyotaspeed90 toyotaspeed90 is offline
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Yeah, that's what I was referencing. Cutting it isn't a big deal at all.

I'm just shocked Toyota did it this way. Usually they're more conservative, where it would make more sense to have the floor pan fit the biggest opening and then make steel adapters with rubber boots to fit the trim.

I'll get it all to work... it's what I do....
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Old 10-21-2020, 12:32 PM #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toyotaspeed90 View Post
I'm just shocked Toyota did it this way. Usually they're more conservative, where it would make more sense to have the floor pan fit the biggest opening and then make steel adapters with rubber boots to fit the trim.
That's not my experience *at all*. Flat spot on the firewall for a clutch master? Sure... but there are plenty of incompatibilities between engine/trim/transmission versions of most Toyotas.

The Alltrac Camry that I have is literally 100% different through the WHOLE floor pan compared to a FWD Camry. From the bottom of the of the firewall back to the rear bumper.... Sheet metal, exhaust, suspension, wiring, gas tank... But from the outside of the car, you can't tell other than the badge on the trunk.

As opposed to Subaru - that uses the same firewall stamping for LHD and RHD with just different holes punched in it... and basically every part for any Impreza from '93 to '07 is cross-compatible.

-Charlie
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Old 10-21-2020, 01:02 PM #18
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Well, the alltrac models are different beasts for all models... and the cost variation to make them (with their, assumed, lack of interest in the US) is probably a determining factor to axe them in the US. I wouldn't be surprised if the Camry shares a flooroan/platform with another Japanese model.

The AE95 is probably one of the better examples of this... it's an alltrac Corolla wagon. Except the alltrac wagon shares almost nothing with the fwd wagon (different body entirely, all lights, interior) save a few things like handles, cluster (etc). Most likely the sedan Corolla alltrac uses the same Carib floorplan.

This is also back in the day when Toyota made an insane plethora of trims of each model that overlapped other trims and models.

Example... in 1988 you could buy a 4 door fwd corolla with a carb'd 4af, an awd sedan with an EFI 4afe, a 2 door corolla coupe with a 4af, a "sports" 2 door Corolla GTS coupe with a 4age, an MR2 with a 4age (a 2 door sports car), I believe the ae82 FX16 was still an option in 1988, a variety of trim levels of a Celica (2 door sports car... in fwd and awd trims), a camry (variety of trim levels that shared engine platforms with the celica, in fwd and awd)... just to notate a few models.

Toyota became more conservative in their model line ups in the early 90s, right around 92/93 when the model changes took place. As you know the alltrac Camry was axed when the 92 model year switch happened with the Camry (though they did bring the 2 door as an option), but I wouldn't be surprised if they still had an alltrac model elsewhere in the world.

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Old 10-22-2020, 01:23 PM #19
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Received the wiring diagrams (thanks Charlie) and most of the diagrams between the 4wd switch and "ADD" system are nearly identical. The junctions, ecu pins, wire colors are almost all the same.

The 4wd select switch actually ties to the same connections the transfercase detection switches connect to.

So... a switch can do 1 of 2 things and have 1 of 2 different results. A simple switch can:
Open current or close current

The results could be the signal received is ground (whether self grounded or through a system) or the signal received is voltage.

In this case it doesn't matter.

In both diagrams the constant is the W-B wire to the 3 transfercase detection switches... the only variation being the outputs on ADD run through the ADD relay to the VSVs and the 4WD ECU controls the transfercase and then outputs to the VSVs. The W-B is ground as notated on pin 8 of the 4wd ecu (and they all connect).

So, in short, the 4wd switch simply sends a ground to the 4wd computer on pin 5.

It also receives a ground signal on pin 6 from the transfercase 4wd detection switch.

So... if I plug in the manual sr5 harness and it seems that the 4wd detection works, then I simply would need to jumper pin 5 and pin 6. This would effectively tell the limited 4wd computer that the "4wd switch" is clicked when the J shift transfercase "detection" switch grounds out. It seems the junction location and wiring is almost all the same... almost.


Now I could be wrong, but I doubt the 4wd ecu will actually care if the transfercase motor exists or not. The ecu simply outputs a signal to the motor (probably in actuality 2, one for in and one for out) and stops trying when it gets ground from the 4wd detection switch.

We will see....

Last edited by toyotaspeed90; 10-22-2020 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 10-23-2020, 02:01 AM #20
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Photos of the 2 vehicles, 2nd motor out today.

The 2 "detection" switches on the manual tranfercase a d the third on the adapter between trans/case
Attached Images
97 Limited 5 speed swap-20201022_161714_compress54-jpg  97 Limited 5 speed swap-20201022_161724_compress6-jpg  97 Limited 5 speed swap-20201022_161736_compress63-jpg 
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Old 10-23-2020, 05:00 PM #21
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Now would be a good time to do new shifter seats...

The manual transmission transfer case will be missing the 'neutral' switch - that is only used on the autos for the "ATP" light that warns you when the trans is in park and the transfer case is in neutral.

-Charlie
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Old 10-25-2020, 12:23 PM #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phattyduck View Post
Now would be a good time to do new shifter seats...

The manual transmission transfer case will be missing the 'neutral' switch - that is only used on the autos for the "ATP" light that warns you when the trans is in park and the transfer case is in neutral.

-Charlie
I thought I had pulled a third off of the adapter between transmission and transfercase and was sure there were three because of the wiring diagram but nope.

Transfercase wasn't leaking/seeping at all and I didn't pull the shifter. Transmission shifter seal I plan to do. I will definitely need to do the transmission output shaft seal as that took a beating on its way out.



Yesterday I didn't get much done as we had both kids, plus 3 more of their cousins.... I did find time to try and install the clutch on the limited.

Found a very nice speaker crossover... installed right in the way, so had to remove that.

Then i realized now was the time to uninstall the aftermarket alarm.... sigh.

Then when it came time to drill holes..... someone had drilled through the firewall right where the CMC would mount, about a 1" hole for a ~14ga wire, and in the wrong spot.

The existing hole was completely in the way. My method was that I marked where I wanted them and drilled around the perimeter with a very small drill bit then enlarging slowly, (I did start by drilling the center and using a step bit...however tye existing hole caught the bit and pulled it off center). Cleaned it up with a step bit... it's ugly but seems to fit. I'll find a way to seal it, even if I have to be a bit ghetto. Pictured will come soon.

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Old 10-25-2020, 03:00 PM #23
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CMC is installed and brake pedal swapped.

What do people do for the hydraulic line.... zip tie it or weld on the tab to the cab from the donor?
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97 Limited 5 speed swap-20201025_094108_compress7-jpg  97 Limited 5 speed swap-20201025_094125_compress15-jpg 
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Old 10-25-2020, 07:53 PM #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toyotaspeed90 View Post
CMC is installed and brake pedal swapped.

What do people do for the hydraulic line.... zip tie it or weld on the tab to the cab from the donor?
For mine, I just used the bracket off the bellhousing bolt for the trans side of the soft line and left the other end free floating, mine was wedged tight enough next to the body that I wasn't really worried about it. If I have issues later, I'll probably bolt on a tab. I would rather bolt on the tab than weld it, with all the insulation in that area.

Also using a beer carton oil soaked gasket for the clutch cylinder, since my donor's disintegrated.
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Old 10-25-2020, 08:01 PM #25
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Old drivetrain gone....

Now I'm a bit shocked by what I see.

It isn't uncommon to have varying parts or wiring between trim levels...

Buy the body is literally stamped different between an SR5 and a limited.

The limited has a very different opening at the center console than the SR5.... the floor plans are literally stamped different instead of having a variation of something that simply bolts (or even rivets) in place.

Guess I'll be cutting it here soon...
For the shifter cutout in the transmission tunnel, try to keep the bolts as untouched as possible. I can take a picture of what I did, but I managed to bolt the manual trans boots (TBF mine were from a tacoma) onto the 2 bolts that were 1 row down from the very top. Then I cut up the auto shifter metal and welded it to the bottom of the shifter boots so I could use the bottommost 2 bolts to get a good seal. Wasn't very hard, but make sure to hold your breath while welding, the shifter boot metal bracket is galvanized.
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Old 10-25-2020, 08:10 PM #26
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I decided to cut the tunnel top off of both vehicles, will trim as needed and weld in, then seam seal. It seemed the best option to make it all work as designed.
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97 Limited 5 speed swap-20201025_171258_compress72-jpg  97 Limited 5 speed swap-20201025_171306_compress93-jpg 

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Old 10-27-2020, 07:24 PM #27
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Mostly done, waiting for seam sealer for the underside and might put a rubberized coating coating.


Might also have the oiliest engine that didn't drip on the ground.... will get a plethora of new gaskets.
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97 Limited 5 speed swap-20201026_224749_compress59-jpg  97 Limited 5 speed swap-20201027_154223_compress48-jpg 
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Old 10-27-2020, 10:28 PM #28
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Heck ya
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Old 10-27-2020, 11:19 PM #29
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In mild tear down of the engine to do the valve cover gaskets and injector O-rings, I came across sealant falling off of what I learned was the back of the bypass plate/tube.

Does this need to be removed and resealed? It seems that this really just covers the empty space between heads/block/lower intake and seems to be a bit of a dust cover.

I have all the gaskets if needed.... just wondering I need to pull and seal it... or if I can clean it up well and RTV it externally.
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Old 10-28-2020, 03:39 PM #30
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The valve cover gasket replacement is quickly becoming a much bigger project....

Anyone have head torque specs and sequence?



Here is how I handle wiring differences. I look at the diagrams to determine what needs to go where. Toyota ECUs tend to be pretty self contained for wiring but still need to be wired to the body.

The main ecu plugs I won't handle since I pulled the entire harness... though I have a few things in my head that may vary... will see how that goes.

Much to my chagrin the body plug is different.

So I looked for what I thought to be body side connections (example- to the combination meter/gauges). Then verify those plugs seem to be right, then create a basic layout in Excel to show what pin, wire color, and which plug on dealing with. Since these are both 97s the wire colors are the same but, if they were different years, I would do the same except show the wire color differences.

When I swapped a 91 5sfe into an 86 MR2 I did the same thing without even cutting the factory body harness (this time that won't happen) but wiring in took maybe 2 hours... and that was for completely different bodies and engines.
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97 Limited 5 speed swap-97-ecu-body-plug_compress10-jpg 

Last edited by toyotaspeed90; 10-28-2020 at 03:41 PM.
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