10-13-2020, 12:59 PM
|
#1
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 431
|
|
Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 431
|
Interesting solution to LBJ bolts backing out
We've all seen it-- Properly torqued, blue loc tite, and they still back out if you wheel hard
Is anyone brave enough to try something like a Nord Lock washer with an OEM bolt?
Nord-Lock Wedge-Locking Washers - Junker Vibration Test - YouTube
I'm an all-OEM kind of guy, but worth a thought!
__________________
2000 SR5 4x4 | Geared, Locked and Fully restored OEM+ build.
Forged and Cammed 1UZ Single Turbo, Standalone ECU + Built R150 in process. Why, you ask? Because it makes no sense in this platform, and I love it!
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-13-2020, 01:23 PM
|
#2
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Trying to figure this out
Posts: 1,462
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Trying to figure this out
Posts: 1,462
|
Interesting. Wasn't there a similar washer product like this in the 80s? Washer with a biting tooth face profile on both sides.
I don't like the way the nord washer bites the mating surfaces too hard and slightly damaging them.
Test don't deny the nord washers work going through that vibration test though.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-13-2020, 01:32 PM
|
#3
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2015
Location: north east of Fairbank out there in the frontiers Alaska
Posts: 3,167
Real Name: 3 Bears
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: north east of Fairbank out there in the frontiers Alaska
Posts: 3,167
Real Name: 3 Bears
|
I must not wheel hard enough as I have not had this issue, red loctite ? Of course would be a lot harder to break loose when needed to
__________________
2000 SR-5 Highlander version 4:30's, factory locker , green, bought 6/21
2001 SR-5... bought 11/20..sold 6/21....
2000 SR-5 moded, lifted, e locker, other cool stuff, totaled 10/20
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-13-2020, 01:35 PM
|
#4
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 431
|
|
Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 431
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3bears
I must not wheel hard enough as I have not had this issue, red loctite ? Of course would be a lot harder to break loose when needed to
|
I havent has this issue personally either. I think OEM equipment is good enough for 99% of the population, especially when using brand new OEM bolts.
But, I've seen some threads in my time here where folks are reporting that they will look under their truck during an oil change and have a LBJ bolt (or two!) completely missing.
Just curious if something like a Nord Lock is a fail-safe against that. I am not sure if I'm brave enough to try it on such a critical part haha!!
__________________
2000 SR5 4x4 | Geared, Locked and Fully restored OEM+ build.
Forged and Cammed 1UZ Single Turbo, Standalone ECU + Built R150 in process. Why, you ask? Because it makes no sense in this platform, and I love it!
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-13-2020, 04:31 PM
|
#5
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Bend
Posts: 1,026
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Bend
Posts: 1,026
|
I just switched to red loctite and have not had another issue.
__________________
1999 Base model 4x4 3RZ 5 speed - added e-locker, front Aussie, dual cases with 4.7 front, manual hubs, Tundra/OME 861 springs, Shaved firewall (thanks Tyler James Inc), AssBurns rear links (run as 3 link),Limited interior w/ Mazda3 Grand Touring seats, Savage front and rear bumpers w/ winch, sliders, Thorley header w/ Magnaflow exhaust, SPC UCAs, 37s with 5.29 gears, roof rack and storage box, sport hood, BL and more. Linky
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-13-2020, 04:47 PM
|
#6
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 2,257
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 2,257
|
Oooh, neato. Looks like a good solution.
What's the class of the OEM bolt? Can we go up a grade somehow? That would allow you to use more torque -> greater clamp load -> harder to loosen it
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-13-2020, 05:18 PM
|
#8
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Omaha
Posts: 1,252
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Omaha
Posts: 1,252
|
I've seen two different torque values for the bolts. 37 ft/lbs and 59 ft/lbs. I never figured out which was the correct value. Would you rather they back out or rather they snap I guess haha. There also seems to be 2 different LBJs, one kind has a boot protector on it. Have you been re-using the old bolts?
__________________
99 SR5 v6 4WD
11 SR5 v6 4WD
Last edited by repo; 10-13-2020 at 05:24 PM.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-13-2020, 05:32 PM
|
#9
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Palos Verdes, CA
Posts: 1,973
Real Name: Leon
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Palos Verdes, CA
Posts: 1,973
Real Name: Leon
|
I don't see how this solution is any better than a serrated washer.
Yes, there are "ramps" that the two mating pieces would have to go over, but only if you assume that the upper half is "attached" to the bolt head, and the bottom half is "attached" to the body.
But in reality, the only thing that holds the upper half to the bolt head, or the bottom half to the body, is friction due to the serrations. So that's your limiting factor, the serrations.
__________________
1997 4Runner Limited 4WD E-Locker ~200k | Falken Wildpeak A/T3W 265/75/16 | Pro Comp 69 16x8 | OME 2906 | B&M 70264
Addicted Offroad Front Bumper | Spiker Engineering High-Lift Hood Struts and Ultragauge Mount
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-14-2020, 03:07 AM
|
#10
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Western CO
Posts: 1,227
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Western CO
Posts: 1,227
|
Try the ORANGE loctite
__________________
2000 4Runner Sport - TRD&AEM SuperCharged
Solo Long Travel & KING 2.5 & bumps, 4th gen rear axle & KING 2.5 12's
F+R ARB's, 4.88 Yukon's, 295 KM3s
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-14-2020, 05:07 PM
|
#11
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 2,059
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 2,059
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Runner4Leon
I don't see how this solution is any better than a serrated washer.
Yes, there are "ramps" that the two mating pieces would have to go over, but only if you assume that the upper half is "attached" to the bolt head, and the bottom half is "attached" to the body.
But in reality, the only thing that holds the upper half to the bolt head, or the bottom half to the body, is friction due to the serrations. So that's your limiting factor, the serrations.
|
Well the test is pretty clear that it works. The most severe vibrations can cause torque value loss on all the other types of locking fasteners, but this one barely moved at al, and settled right in after multiple tests. There's a reason Cotter Pins are used on a lot of suspension stuff, because there's almost no way to guarantee the bolt won't back out, even with loctite and a locking washer.
__________________
The 4Runner Show
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-14-2020, 05:46 PM
|
#12
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Bozeman, Montana
Age: 25
Posts: 917
Real Name: Phoenix
|
|
Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Bozeman, Montana
Age: 25
Posts: 917
Real Name: Phoenix
|
I have always used red loctite on mine and have had them back out on several occasions. For me the solution ended up being a small tack weld on the bolt heads and swapping the oem bolts for arps. Haven't had them back out or stretch since then and when I need to get the bolts out a quick zip with the grinder and they unthread no problem
__________________
98 Limited - Solid Axle Swapped,Turboed,And On 37s - Build
Transgo Shit Kit Writeup - Click Here
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-14-2020, 06:18 PM
|
#13
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: High Country, CO
Posts: 609
|
|
Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: High Country, CO
Posts: 609
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiLife
Interesting. Wasn't there a similar washer product like this in the 80s? Washer with a biting tooth face profile on both sides.
|
Maybe you are thinking of a Schnorr washer? Same basic principle with serrations on both sides, but the Schnorr is single thickness and a belleville shape, so it compresses.
__________________
'97 SR5 V6 4x4 | 5-speed | e-locker | 33's
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-14-2020, 06:38 PM
|
#14
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Palos Verdes, CA
Posts: 1,973
Real Name: Leon
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Palos Verdes, CA
Posts: 1,973
Real Name: Leon
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow247
Well the test is pretty clear that it works. The most severe vibrations can cause torque value loss on all the other types of locking fasteners, but this one barely moved at al, and settled right in after multiple tests. There's a reason Cotter Pins are used on a lot of suspension stuff, because there's almost no way to guarantee the bolt won't back out, even with loctite and a locking washer.
|
Not really, the video only compared a plain nut and a double nut to the Nord-Lock. No other locking nuts were tested for comparison (deformed metallic nuts, nylok, locking compounds, etc). We also have no idea what vibration spectrum was imposed on the assembly.
There are numerous highly effective locking features - the best are usually deformed threads, or locking materials in the thread. If your (or someone else's) life depends on it, you might go to the next level of lockwire, bent tab washers, or cotter pins (I noticed that the video conveniently dismissed these as "labor intensive").
We've tested a number of devices like the Nord-Lok (look up Klincher nuts, Oglaend, etc), and they all rely on preload to keep them from loosening. In our testing, they have not stood up as well as the prevailing torque type locking devices. Then again, we work with aerospace systems, where the vibration input is much higher than automotive or similar industry.
I'd say if you are really concerned about these LBJ bolts, have them drilled for lockwire, or get some correct size bolts predrilled for the lockwire.
__________________
1997 4Runner Limited 4WD E-Locker ~200k | Falken Wildpeak A/T3W 265/75/16 | Pro Comp 69 16x8 | OME 2906 | B&M 70264
Addicted Offroad Front Bumper | Spiker Engineering High-Lift Hood Struts and Ultragauge Mount
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is On
|
|
|
|