User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 12-27-2020, 08:49 PM #46
brillo_76's Avatar
brillo_76 brillo_76 is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Western PA
Posts: 6,012
Real Name: Jon
brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute
brillo_76 brillo_76 is offline
Elite Member
brillo_76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Western PA
Posts: 6,012
Real Name: Jon
brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute
Might be worth pulling the valve covers off and check the cams and the valve spacing.

Good idea to verify and check that all. Its possible the clearances are off.

Sent from my SM-J337V using Tapatalk
__________________
7 3rd gens listed in the build thread (2 are parts mobiles)
Build Thread: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...os-builds.html
Brillo's Bucket Fluid Ex changer: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...ml#post3358086
Sparks Plugs Wire and Coil Information: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...on-5vz-fe.html
brillo_76 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-28-2020, 06:38 PM #47
Azhen Azhen is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Oregon
Age: 38
Posts: 2
Azhen is on a distinguished road
Azhen Azhen is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Oregon
Age: 38
Posts: 2
Azhen is on a distinguished road
I'm an amateur at every sense of the word, but had similar issues starting when warm. While reading through forums in general, one person talked about the coolant temp sensor at the top front end of the engine next to the fuel rail. I gave it a shot since it was easy, but I got lucky and haven't had the issue since. The old sensor looked fouled up. I thought it was worth a mention. Best of luck!
Azhen is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-28-2020, 06:56 PM #48
brillo_76's Avatar
brillo_76 brillo_76 is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Western PA
Posts: 6,012
Real Name: Jon
brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute
brillo_76 brillo_76 is offline
Elite Member
brillo_76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Western PA
Posts: 6,012
Real Name: Jon
brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azhen View Post
I'm an amateur at every sense of the word, but had similar issues starting when warm. While reading through forums in general, one person talked about the coolant temp sensor at the top front end of the engine next to the fuel rail. I gave it a shot since it was easy, but I got lucky and haven't had the issue since. The old sensor looked fouled up. I thought it was worth a mention. Best of luck!
So in your case, the ECU was being told the engine was cool. Thus running really rich and the engine not going into closed loop.

Did it take forever for the engine to start when warm?

Sent from my SM-J337V using Tapatalk
__________________
7 3rd gens listed in the build thread (2 are parts mobiles)
Build Thread: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...os-builds.html
Brillo's Bucket Fluid Ex changer: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...ml#post3358086
Sparks Plugs Wire and Coil Information: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...on-5vz-fe.html
brillo_76 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-28-2020, 08:07 PM #49
19963.4lsr5 19963.4lsr5 is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Stouchsburg PA
Posts: 5,304
19963.4lsr5 is a splendid one to behold 19963.4lsr5 is a splendid one to behold 19963.4lsr5 is a splendid one to behold 19963.4lsr5 is a splendid one to behold 19963.4lsr5 is a splendid one to behold 19963.4lsr5 is a splendid one to behold 19963.4lsr5 is a splendid one to behold
19963.4lsr5 19963.4lsr5 is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Stouchsburg PA
Posts: 5,304
19963.4lsr5 is a splendid one to behold 19963.4lsr5 is a splendid one to behold 19963.4lsr5 is a splendid one to behold 19963.4lsr5 is a splendid one to behold 19963.4lsr5 is a splendid one to behold 19963.4lsr5 is a splendid one to behold 19963.4lsr5 is a splendid one to behold
For American vehicles the engine temp, IAC temp and trans temp should be within 10 degrees of ambient temps locally as well as all three being close to that local temp after sitting 8 hours.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
19963.4lsr5 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-28-2020, 10:52 PM #50
mendozer mendozer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 570
mendozer is on a distinguished road
mendozer mendozer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 570
mendozer is on a distinguished road
That's exactly what I have him doing at the shop, taking valve covers and checking lash. I can do that too...but he can get the proper pucks if needed much faster than I can.
mendozer is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-30-2020, 10:37 PM #51
brillo_76's Avatar
brillo_76 brillo_76 is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Western PA
Posts: 6,012
Real Name: Jon
brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute
brillo_76 brillo_76 is offline
Elite Member
brillo_76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Western PA
Posts: 6,012
Real Name: Jon
brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute
I hope this fixes you up.

Sent from my SM-J337V using Tapatalk
__________________
7 3rd gens listed in the build thread (2 are parts mobiles)
Build Thread: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...os-builds.html
Brillo's Bucket Fluid Ex changer: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...ml#post3358086
Sparks Plugs Wire and Coil Information: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...on-5vz-fe.html
brillo_76 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-02-2021, 12:58 AM #52
Azhen Azhen is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Oregon
Age: 38
Posts: 2
Azhen is on a distinguished road
Azhen Azhen is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Oregon
Age: 38
Posts: 2
Azhen is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by brillo_76 View Post
So in your case, the ECU was being told the engine was cool. Thus running really rich and the engine not going into closed loop.

Did it take forever for the engine to start when warm?

Sent from my SM-J337V using Tapatalk
Sorry for the late reply brillo, but yes sometimes it did take forever to start, and sometimes I got lucky after a few tries. It would stutter then die. I generally waited for it to cool off to get it to start. I cleaned the MAF sensor and throttle body and gave the IAC a really good cleaning with no results. I installed a new fuel filter with no results. I then tried the coolant temp sensor and got lucky. Thankfully there are so much information and good people to do write ups, that an amateur like me can just follow it. But I'm still trying to put the big pieces of the puzzle together of what makes an engine tick. I've only really started working on engines the past couple of years. 🤷*♂️
Azhen is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-02-2021, 02:29 PM #53
mendozer mendozer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 570
mendozer is on a distinguished road
mendozer mendozer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 570
mendozer is on a distinguished road
They didn't get around to it over the last two short holiday weeks. I went to get it back bc I needed it for skiing Monday. When they get more time I'll bring it by.

When I got home I let it sit for about 10 minutes then tried starting it up again (hot soak test). I used my IR gun to check the temps. Before 2nd firing, Cylinders 1-3-5 were all around 165-180 measured at the neck of the exhaust manifold. Cylinders 2-4-6 were 127ish, 143, 90 respectively.

Started it up, with difficulty, then let it run for a minute or two. Cylinder 1-3-5 now heated up between 195-215. Cylinders 2-4-6 took longer to get hot. 2 danced from 150-160, 4 120-160, and 6 190-200 eventually but I had some weird readings at first being dramatically low. Not sure if this test offered much insight other than one half it tending to heat up longer and loses it faster. Now...the exhaust header on this side was the replacement since I got a stud stuck in the original. It's out of a 1st gen tacoma and the build of if is slightly different, although the mating surface is the same. So MAYBE it's a different metal thickness???

Also, here is that long synopsis from the shop that I left in the car:
"tested fuel system before and after the fuel pressure regulator and sound to be within spec, found slight fuel system bleed down but fuel pressure comes back to spec as soon as engine is cranked as designed. fuel pressure at spec when extended crank condition is observed, tested camshaft position sensor due to improper routing of wiring pigtail (when I reassembled it I could not for the life of me get it back into the plastic clip on the front), tests within spec, tested the throttle position sensor and it was within spec, tested the throttle motor and it was also within spec, tested throttle motor clutch circuit and it was found slight high reading but could be temperature variant, found mass air flow sensor reading at 10.8 GPS at idle when spec is around 3.4-3.8 GPS. Cleaned MAF and found the reading lowered but still not within spec. Replaced MAF and now current reading is 3.6-3.8 GPS but extended crank is still intermittently present. Added new engine grounds and engine still cranked long. unplugged A/F sensor in exhaust to put system into open loop, engine still cranked long. bypassed fuel pump relay to try priming system before a start. Also cranked long, installed noid light and spark tested and cranked engine over to see if we were losing a signal while cranking, had spark and injector pulse. Bypassed the purge valve to see if fuel is being induced into the intake when engine is off, no change. The engine is running lean, we pinched off all vacuum lines and leak checked the intake manifold, found no signs of leaks. We have ruled out everything but an internal engine issue. I suspect that the valve clearance is out of spec. This could also cause the engine to run lean. The valve covers will have to be removed to check for a lash issue."
mendozer is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-06-2021, 11:51 PM #54
mendozer mendozer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 570
mendozer is on a distinguished road
mendozer mendozer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 570
mendozer is on a distinguished road
UPDATE: Engine codes

Finally for the first time driving home today CEL came on and my scanguage showed P0440 (evap emission control) and P1135 (air/fuel heater circuit bank 1 sensor 1).

So...he mentioned it was running lean. Could it be that exhaust valves are out of adjustment, so they're being held (open?) causing those cylinders to run lean?

I say this because upon original cylinder head removal, I had three cracked valves, all exhaust I think. Both on cyl 4 and one on cyl 6. So those would have to be new, then ground down. If there was any error grinding those down then the original pucks could be out of spec...right? I'm searching for possibilities here. And those two cylinders just happened to be the "coolest" on my hot soak test.
mendozer is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-01-2021, 08:11 PM #55
mendozer mendozer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 570
mendozer is on a distinguished road
mendozer mendozer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 570
mendozer is on a distinguished road
Finally!

Mechanic fixed the evap code and the heater fault as well, issue still present. I gave him the go ahead to just take valve covers off and check valve clearance. A few were tight (8 thousandths) and a lot were loose (spec is 11-13 thousandths) but that wasn't HUGE since none were zero lash.
The issue...he took the timing cover off and the belt was LOOSE! So after turning the car off, the cams were turning not engaging until it was just right again. I put all new OEM parts in when I did this,water pump, idlers, tensioner etc everything...or so i thought. I got them off ebay labelled OEM, in boxes and sealed in bags with stickers etc. That seller is ripping people off. He ordered an Aisin kit just to show me and it's definitely different.
I will say the ONLY issue I had reinstalling this was the no. 1 idler pulley. I did notice the casting was just a bit (1-2mm) thicker than mine and when I torqued it down, it did not spin freely, if anything at all. So it was so tight that the tensioner couldn't even push on it into the belt. It passed all manual tests cranking it over by hand with my timing marks, but when the engine was running it did not. So all this time, that POS idler pulley that I'll admit I should have stopped on, caused this. so to make sure we are swapping the WHOLE kit just to be safe and it has a 2 year warranty from him on it.
Just goes to show that despite stickers and boxes, unless you know what to look for you can get taken for a ride. I did notice the bearing color was black and not the typical Koyo red, but again I didn't let it phase me. My feelers perked up when I torqued it down but I just thought (oh well it's new) and let it go. That was the mistake that caused months of frustration, nearly a grand in diagnostics, and now a new kit. I should be getting the vehicle back tonight.
mendozer is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-02-2021, 10:25 AM #56
Bad Luck Bad Luck is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Hot Springs, AR
Posts: 4,410
Real Name: Patrick
Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute
Bad Luck Bad Luck is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Hot Springs, AR
Posts: 4,410
Real Name: Patrick
Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute
I'm glad you finally figured it out. Sometimes it's the smallest thing that has a huge impact! What was the ebay seller you got the kit through?
__________________
2000 SR5 V6 Manual 4WD https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...biography.html
2000 Limited V6 Auto E-Locker Sold 3/2022
Bad Luck is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-03-2021, 03:03 AM #57
mendozer mendozer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 570
mendozer is on a distinguished road
mendozer mendozer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 570
mendozer is on a distinguished road
motorbabyus i believe. They have nothing listed now in their store despite over 5k sales. I tried both a paypal and ebay resolution. paypal already denied as it's over 180 days. Lesson learned, get OEM from a reliable source
mendozer is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-13-2021, 07:09 PM #58
mendozer mendozer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 570
mendozer is on a distinguished road
mendozer mendozer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 570
mendozer is on a distinguished road
$2200 later after a new MAF, EVAP system seal, O2 sensor (to clear that code) and new timing belt kit.....it's still doing it!!!!

It's not as bad, granted I've only had it for a week. But the cold morning starts are solid (except for one day) and the afternoon startup from work to home sputters for 3-4 seconds. In the last two days it's now taken two key cranks (mainly because I won't let it sputter longer than 5 seconds).

well shit...everything else was fine except the valve clearance. They were all out of whack from the machine shop...but none were zero lash. Could those really cause this? What about something else we didn't discuss...the ignition cylinder in the steering column, or anything else from key to start?

I'm so frustrated.
mendozer is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-16-2021, 10:52 AM #59
DreadPirateJon's Avatar
DreadPirateJon DreadPirateJon is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Michigan
Posts: 165
DreadPirateJon is on a distinguished road
DreadPirateJon DreadPirateJon is offline
Member
DreadPirateJon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Michigan
Posts: 165
DreadPirateJon is on a distinguished road
Does the engine crank over at the same speed during the hard starts as when it works immediately? And when you say sputtering, im imagining it trying to fire and maybe getting a couple pops and blurbles but not actually getting running, is that correct? Or is it running, but just really poorly?

Also for the Evap code, what did your mechanic do to fix it? The gas smell outside the vehicle is a symptom of a stuck valve in the evap system. And potentially i bet that could lead to some rough starts if the evap system is not scavenging properly.
__________________
97 5spd with elocker
Build Thread https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...st-bucket.html

2 inch Lift (Bilstein 5100 F&R, 99 Talls F, OME R), 33 Inch Tires
Rebuilt Engine, Doug Thorley Headers, Gibson Catback
DreadPirateJon is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-16-2021, 01:16 PM #60
Bad Luck Bad Luck is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Hot Springs, AR
Posts: 4,410
Real Name: Patrick
Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute
Bad Luck Bad Luck is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Hot Springs, AR
Posts: 4,410
Real Name: Patrick
Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute Bad Luck has a reputation beyond repute
A faulty evap purge solenoid valve can cause similar starting symptoms especially after filling up
__________________
2000 SR5 V6 Manual 4WD https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...biography.html
2000 Limited V6 Auto E-Locker Sold 3/2022
Bad Luck is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply

Tags
battery , fuel , injectors , seconds , year

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
starting issues olhobbler 3rd gen T4Rs 3 07-20-2018 02:25 PM
Starting issues with 03 TFR SethD 4th Gen T4Rs 0 05-12-2014 07:35 PM
Starting issues SaltyNaulty 3rd gen T4Rs 4 04-13-2014 09:42 PM
Starting Issues cmatt5150 Problems & Warranty Issues 2 04-03-2011 10:54 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:40 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
***This site is an unofficial Toyota site, and is not officially endorsed, supported, authorized by or affiliated with Toyota. All company, product, or service names references in this web site are used for identification purposes only and may be trademarks of their respective owners. The Toyota name, marks, designs and logos, as well as Toyota model names, are registered trademarks of Toyota Motor Corporation***Ad Management plugin by RedTyger
 
Copyright © 2020