12-06-2020, 11:49 PM
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#1
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Washington
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Location: Washington
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Will the Tundra brake upgrade reduce 60-0 distance?
I am running a nearly stock 4runner. Biggest change my 16" stock wheels with crappy Toyo AT's for 18" off a (Tacoma or 4Runner? I can't remember) Premium with 265 wide Michelin LTX, remains at stock height.
With my bad Toyo's my 60 - 0 averaged ~145' and the ABS would kick on repeatedly during those runs every time. I haven't measured my 60-0 with the Michelin LTX, but the ABS doesn't kick on now. It definitely feels more controlled, not sure it is any shorter, though.
So curious if anyone with a Tundra brake upgrade bothered to measure their 60-0 before and after.
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12-07-2020, 12:04 AM
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#2
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Join Date: Feb 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDummy
I am running a nearly stock 4runner. Biggest change my 16" stock wheels with crappy Toyo AT's for 18" off a (Tacoma or 4Runner? I can't remember) Premium with 265 wide Michelin LTX, remains at stock height.
With my bad Toyo's my 60 - 0 averaged ~145' and the ABS would kick on repeatedly during those runs every time. I haven't measured my 60-0 with the Michelin LTX, but the ABS doesn't kick on now. It definitely feels more controlled, not sure it is any shorter, though.
So curious if anyone with a Tundra brake upgrade bothered to measure their 60-0 before and after.
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The answer is, it depends. A perfectly functioning OEM system will engage the ABS on Dry Pavement at almost any speed. This tells me the tires are your limit until you start outfitting super soft racing tires. Big brakes can theoretically slow the wheels down faster, but it doesn't matter if the tires are garbage and cant grab the road.
So I would say no. The benefit of the Tundra brakes is that the larger rotors/pad area allows the heat to spread out and prevents the rotors from overheating during harder braking. You may notice a descreased stopping distance after Multiple hard braking events, as the brakes would be cooler, and thus more effective at slowing the vehicle down.
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12-07-2020, 12:38 AM
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#3
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Washington
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Just to clarify, old tires (Toyo AT's) could easily break traction, either on acceleration or braking, but especially on braking. New tires (all-season highway Michelin LTX) I have never had break traction on pavement. Because of that, I was thinking the Tundra upgrade may help me at this point.
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12-10-2020, 01:17 PM
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#4
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Lakebay, WA
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Real Name: Reinout
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I thought about the Tundra upgrade myself but have opted out. As you know, here in Washington, the roads tend to be a little slick at this time of the year and
@ shadow247
made a super valid point about the age of the tires being a big factor.
I'd recommend siping if anything to increase traction.
The ABS on our 3rd gen would go off if a mouse farted near it so to increase my control I did the "blue wire mod" to disable the ABS on the fly. I believe that the Tundra upgrade would only make the chance of breaking traction greater.
Look at WRC cars, they do not run big brakes (unless on tarmac) specifically so that they don't unnecessarily lose traction.
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12-10-2020, 02:45 PM
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#5
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Join Date: Oct 2014
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I can't specifically comment on 60-0 times as I have not measured them nor do I know how to do it accurately. But I agree completely about the age, tread style and tread compound comments. When I got my 4Runner it had a set of Cooper's on there that were garbage and I would go skidding into intersections in the rain on a frequent basis because the tires would slip and ABS kick in, not allowing me to stop. New H/T changed all that and it's rock solid on dry pavement and great in wet. ABS has never kicked in unless I hit a big pothole or speedbump.
After I did the TBU ABS has never kicked in either. Stopping power is increased as the bigger pads apply more pressure to the brakes with less brake fluid pressure. The ABS system is a balance of fluid pressure and ABS sensor input (tire slip). While I can't say for certain it would decrease 60-0 times or in my case, 100-0 times (tire choice really does matter much more here) in my real-world experience the brakes are stronger will less force needed on the pedal.
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12-10-2020, 03:40 PM
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#6
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Nobody has ever tested this. The cases where people say the TBU decreased stopping distance may have gotten the benefit from the friction material in their new pads and new rotors. The 231's MIGHT, but that caliper also messes with fluid displacement, so people might be claiming wild results from that due to a pedal that only grabs at the very bottom combined with a higher friction pad. Another determining factor is the size of your rear wheel cylinder.
Also 01-02 uses 4 channel ABS vs the 3 channel in 96-00.
With the 199 upgrade, my guess is no, it does not decrease stopping distance when compared side by side to stock larger brakes with the same type of pad and rotor.
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12-10-2020, 04:07 PM
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#7
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Honestly most vehicles should have e ought power to lock the wheels, aka abs kicks in, so more braking power won't help.
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12-10-2020, 04:58 PM
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#8
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Join Date: May 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T4R2014
Nobody has ever tested this. The cases where people say the TBU decreased stopping distance may have gotten the benefit from the friction material in their new pads and new rotors. The 231's MIGHT, but that caliper also messes with fluid displacement, so people might be claiming wild results from that due to a pedal that only grabs at the very bottom combined with a higher friction pad. Another determining factor is the size of your rear wheel cylinder.
Also 01-02 uses 4 channel ABS vs the 3 channel in 96-00.
With the 199 upgrade, my guess is no, it does not decrease stopping distance when compared side by side to stock larger brakes with the same type of pad and rotor.
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I saw no noticeable improvement with just the calipers and rotors. Now, when I did the booster and MC? Holy poop. Combine that with soft AT's and no ABS and I can put your nose on the dash if I'm not paying attention. However, I'll concede I don't have hard data to back it up. But I don't see how it wouldn't be shorter. They grab hard. Like, stupid hard.
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12-10-2020, 05:04 PM
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#9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cree
I saw no noticeable improvement with just the calipers and rotors. Now, when I did the booster and MC? Holy poop. Combine that with soft AT's and no ABS and I can put your nose on the dash if I'm not paying attention. However, I'll concede I don't have hard data to back it up. But I don't see how it wouldn't be shorter. They grab hard. Like, stupid hard.
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Do you mean just a new OEM booster and MC or is there a mod to change to a different booster and MC?
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12-10-2020, 05:07 PM
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#10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc3g
Do you mean just a new OEM booster and MC or is there a mod to change to a different booster and MC?
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I stepped up to a T100 booster and Master. Bumps you up from a 9 3/4 to a 10.5 booster and a 1 inch bore to 1 1/16.
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Last edited by Cree; 12-10-2020 at 05:10 PM.
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12-10-2020, 07:34 PM
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#11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cree
I stepped up to a T100 booster and Master. Bumps you up from a 9 3/4 to a 10.5 booster and a 1 inch bore to 1 1/16.
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Interesting
How did it fit up?
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12-10-2020, 09:37 PM
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#12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jross20
Interesting
How did it fit up?
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Build thread is in my sig. Direct bolt on, had to bend the lines a bit.
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12-11-2020, 01:19 AM
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#13
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Yes your braking distance is reduced with the TBU, given the road is dry and your tires aren’t complete shit.
Measuring Stopping Distance of a Toyota Tacoma with Tundra brakes - YouTube
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12-11-2020, 11:39 AM
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#14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cree
Build thread is in my sig. Direct bolt on, had to bend the lines a bit.
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Did you ABS delete because of the T100 master not working well with the ABS system?
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12-11-2020, 02:36 PM
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#15
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I would also say that apart from a possibly shorter stopping distance, another benefit of greater swept area is an increase in heat dissipation. Which reduces its chances of overheating. Overheated brakes can cause a spongy brake feel with increased stopping distance.
This is most common when going downhill on a mountain road, esp if you're loaded with gear and armor. You can alleviate that by using engine braking and minimizing the use of your brakes, of course. Or pulling over every now and then to let it cool down if you are riding it.
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