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Old 04-13-2021, 06:21 AM #16
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Originally Posted by Devbot View Post
In regard to upgrading your trailing arms I don't think you'll see much benefit unless you're running a major amount of lift or do some fairly heavy crawling, but that's just my 2 cents. I currently use the OEM set so maybe someone that has something like Opt Offroad arms would like to chime in and say otherwise
I'm currently waiting for an opportunity to install my JBA UCAs and was curious about caster angle so this is all appreciated by me as well lol
Yeah I've never been too interested in getting fancy arms..don't see much need for me. I'm all about helping others too man so stay tuned and maybe we can figure this out. Otherwise I'm super happy with arms. Great quality, perfect fit, and fast service.

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Originally Posted by fortysixandtwo View Post
I recently did a full suspension and steering overhaul. Added a lift. Replaced damn near everything in the front end and I had a random vibration/wander at 55-65 mph. I rechecked everything, double checked the alignment. Couldn't figure out what I was missing.

Ended up having two wheels out of balance. Now its smooth as glass at all speeds, no wander. Probably had this issue before but my suspension was so clapped out I assumed it was part of that.

Food for thought.
Thank you, sometimes you need to think back to the simplest of things. I've got my stock wheels and tires I'm going to put those on and see if that changes anything.

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Try rotating the tires to see what that does if you didnt already. You could try replacing the steering rack guide/spring with the newer kind if you have the roller type. Youre supposed to torque the guide on the bench with no fluid, so doing it on the vehicle is basically trial an error. I think you'd probably have a shimmy felt in the steering wheel if it was the rack guide. I have mine tightened up so the steering is exactly how I like it, pretty tight/heavy but easily returns. I don't like the normal loosey goosey Toyota steering.
Def. gonna try to rotate or put the stockers back on and see how that feels. I keep reading about this guide and I've never heard about it before. I'm going to look into this a little bit more.

If I'm being honest...

This thing is really starting to piss me off. More mad at myself than anything. Had a perfectly good riding, solid vehicle and I've thrown all this time and money at it and it rides like shit right now. Its crazy stiff in the front so I think I need to crank the coilovers back down (I only put 4 turns on each but it feels like a covered wagon). I am going to completely take off the rear driveshaft and grease the shit out of that and see if that helps.

Gotta get this right this is getting ridiculous. I still am waiting to hear back from the "tech" to see if there was more adjustment left where he could have put more caster in it. I asked them to put it above three and that didn't happen so we will see. My previous one drove so much better than this. The only other variable is the fact that these are the "aluma" coilovers vs their normal boss or ultimate ones. I think I like the others better, if I'm being honest.

Thanks for all the help everyone I'm banging my head against the wall.
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Old 04-13-2021, 11:25 AM #17
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The other thing I guess you could try (I just did this the other day but haven't put it back together yet) is replacing the front diff needle bearings (driver side) with the East Coast Gear Supply 7.5 clamshell teflon bushing. When you lift the new CV angle puts strain on that needle bearings and the driver side CV gets a bit floppy and can cause a vibration. I would make sure the wheels are balanced first like someone else mentioned.
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Old 04-14-2021, 08:13 AM #18
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I have been trying to read up on this some but in my first searches it looked like just a 5th gen thing. I will look a little more on it. I honestly would like to regear so I would do all that at the same time.

I did make some headway on the vibration. A little more time and a little more grease and it has prob. dropped by about 60%. Still there but its way better. I overanalyze everything but in my mind I wonder if the grease may have not been applied uniformly across all surfaces/in the slip joint and this in itself could've thrown the balance off some until it all slung out or made its way around. That's all I can come up with as of now.

My (steering wheel)slip joint has always been bad but the lift/heavier/bigger tires has exaggerated that a ton. I really think that is causing some of the wandering and sh*tty steering/handling. I called Toytec and they agreed the caster is best around 3.5 so I called the alignment place and they said they'd take a second look at it and try to get some more caster out of it. Think I'll try to fix the slip joint before then and I'm going to crank the coilovers back down 4 turns. The rear springs settled more than I expected and the front is stiff a a brick. (Which also could be causing some twitchy steering.)

Stay tuned...I'd really like to help some with this hassle in the future.
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Old 04-14-2021, 09:52 AM #19
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sounds like you're on the way toward getting it sorted. fwiw i agree with @Devbot concerning rear bushing upgrades. i did my rear upper and lower control arms the other day and noticed an immediate improvement in tracking -- it just wants to go straight down the road, and helps to re-center against a side wind. i wasn't expecting *rear* to be doing that (i thought, it'll improve ride) but hey, i'll take it. as for speed-specific shimmy, i get some of that after a rotation sometimes, and wonder if having them rebalanced would be the right move. concerning wander, my only wandering woes are not in my 4R but my '95 pickup, and that thing is all over the GD road sometimes with a 4+ " lift and BFG AT-KO tires. i've got all new steering and CVs and front bushings, and newish steering damper in that thing and it still wanders. i noticed that immediately upon changing to the AT-KO years ago. i also recently loosened the front suspension in it, and it wanders less now (i think). i wonder if your stagecoach mod might be working against you there.
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Old 04-14-2021, 12:33 PM #20
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Originally Posted by photoleif View Post
sounds like you're on the way toward getting it sorted. fwiw i agree with @Devbot concerning rear bushing upgrades. i did my rear upper and lower control arms the other day and noticed an immediate improvement in tracking -- it just wants to go straight down the road, and helps to re-center against a side wind. i wasn't expecting *rear* to be doing that (i thought, it'll improve ride) but hey, i'll take it. as for speed-specific shimmy, i get some of that after a rotation sometimes, and wonder if having them rebalanced would be the right move. concerning wander, my only wandering woes are not in my 4R but my '95 pickup, and that thing is all over the GD road sometimes with a 4+ " lift and BFG AT-KO tires. i've got all new steering and CVs and front bushings, and newish steering damper in that thing and it still wanders. i noticed that immediately upon changing to the AT-KO years ago. i also recently loosened the front suspension in it, and it wanders less now (i think). i wonder if your stagecoach mod might be working against you there.
Hahah I need some clarification on "stagecoach" mod. Whatever that is i like the name lol!

I appreciate your input sounds like I really need to consider doing the rear arms. Did you just replace the bushings? Whiteline or what did you use?

I am glad you said "GD" when you said wandering because that's EXACTLY what it does to me....Effing piss me off..man I get irate lol. Nothing like spending all this time and money and it rides like junk.

Sucks that AT-KOs dont seem to perform well. I used to think of those as upper echelon of tires but time and time again they let me down. I have some on a Grand Cherokee (shhhhhh) and man they SUCK.
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Old 04-14-2021, 02:59 PM #21
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lol "vibrations after lift"

What a headache. I've been fighting vibrations for years since I lifted mine. I think there's a link to the thread I had going about what I did to try to solve it in the first post in my build thread, link in sig.

Basically the only way I could get it to a reasonable level was to keep the front lift under 1.5", with a diff drop, and use adjustable rear upper links to get my pinion angle good. I still can't get rid of them entirely, but it's better ...ish.

Good luck.
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Old 04-14-2021, 08:44 PM #22
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lol "vibrations after lift"

What a headache. I've been fighting vibrations for years since I lifted mine. I think there's a link to the thread I had going about what I did to try to solve it in the first post in my build thread, link in sig.

Basically the only way I could get it to a reasonable level was to keep the front lift under 1.5", with a diff drop, and use adjustable rear upper links to get my pinion angle good. I still can't get rid of them entirely, but it's better ...ish.

Good luck.
Thezentree!!!

So good to hear from you brotha!! Hahah yes we have been down this road before 🤣. My last one was definitely better than this one I don’t get why it’s so bad. I remember reading your thread way back when and I have read it again since. Makes no sense man!!!!

Hope you’ve been doing well.
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Old 04-14-2021, 11:20 PM #23
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Hahah I need some clarification on "stagecoach" mod. Whatever that is i like the name lol!

I appreciate your input sounds like I really need to consider doing the rear arms. Did you just replace the bushings? Whiteline or what did you use?

I am glad you said "GD" when you said wandering because that's EXACTLY what it does to me....Effing piss me off..man I get irate lol. Nothing like spending all this time and money and it rides like junk.

Sucks that AT-KOs dont seem to perform well. I used to think of those as upper echelon of tires but time and time again they let me down. I have some on a Grand Cherokee (shhhhhh) and man they SUCK.
haha. i misquoted you accidentally. you said it rides like a covered wagon. i spaced and said stagecoach, oop. perhaps we've coined a term .

i went with energy bushings (and only did bushings) for the rear upper and lower control arms (PN 8.3133R worked perfectly for my '99) and just greased the heck out of them. UPS just delivered whiteline panhard bushings tonight, and i'll do that once the dust settles from today's complete front-end suspension / steering rebuild. i also replaced the front and rear sway bar bushings (also energy).

re the AT/KO2, they seem durable, and are capable tires for rocky trails just like the original AT/KO i first started using in 2005. i feel they're embarrassingly bad on slush and ice over pavement, and on dry pavement they frustratingly have a mind of their own and no attention span. they're kinda fun in snow. i run duratracs on the 4R and absolutely love the squishy goodness in all conditions and surfaces except wet snow, where i feel they load up too much but still do pretty well. when the KOs wear out, i'll be going duratracs for that vehicle as well.
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Old 04-15-2021, 06:32 AM #24
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haha. i misquoted you accidentally. you said it rides like a covered wagon. i spaced and said stagecoach, oop. perhaps we've coined a term .

i went with energy bushings (and only did bushings) for the rear upper and lower control arms (PN 8.3133R worked perfectly for my '99) and just greased the heck out of them. UPS just delivered whiteline panhard bushings tonight, and i'll do that once the dust settles from today's complete front-end suspension / steering rebuild. i also replaced the front and rear sway bar bushings (also energy).

re the AT/KO2, they seem durable, and are capable tires for rocky trails just like the original AT/KO i first started using in 2005. i feel they're embarrassingly bad on slush and ice over pavement, and on dry pavement they frustratingly have a mind of their own and no attention span. they're kinda fun in snow. i run duratracs on the 4R and absolutely love the squishy goodness in all conditions and surfaces except wet snow, where i feel they load up too much but still do pretty well. when the KOs wear out, i'll be going duratracs for that vehicle as well.
hahahah oh yes we have stumbled across a good one! Stagecoach baby hahahah

Sounds like the bushings werent too bad then...I def. need to do that. I swapped every single front end part and did nothing but install the lift in the rear. Need to get that going. I never even thought about panhard bushings, as well.

I never have tried the duratracs but I do hear a lot of good things about them. I did STT Pros on mine and as much as I do really like the look...I'm wondering if I should've gone more with something like a trail grappler or something of the like. Oh well...they on there now we gon' run 'em
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Old 04-15-2021, 01:47 PM #25
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Regarding the vibration. Sounds like the rear drive shaft/u-joint might be wearing out especially if it improved after greasing it. If the vibration is more noticeable while your on the gas, there's a good chance that's it. You can test it by removing it and going for a short drive in 4wd (don't do AWD like I did). Since 4wd is electronically engaged on your 01, it might take a few attempts for it to engage before you can start driving (since the rear drive shaft is removed). Also, while the rear drive shaft is off, move the joint around to see if it feels smooth or clunky. If it's just starting to go out it might be a very subtle clunkiness which is easer to detect with it off the vehicle. I bought a used rear drive shaft from @DeathCougar which resolved my similar vibration issues. I also bought a new toyota u-joint, 04371-60070, to eventually replace on my original so I have a spare. @mtbtim , @infamousRNR & @JZiggy have a video on this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6arj3PpT1p4

What is your center hub to fender measurements? If it's over 22.5" that could be contributing to the wandering & overly sensitive steering but also sounds alignment/alignment parts related. Next time you get an alignment mark the LCA cam bolts & OTRE jam nut with a paint pen so you have a reference in case any fasteners come loose. Since the alignment numbers are within the factory specified ranges, my guess would be that either a fastener got loose or something got shifted when the tech was tightening everything back up after having it initially aligned. Having caster on the higher end of the factory specified range is supposed to be better but I think there is a point of diminishing return & that there are other variables that can contribute to twitchy steering from my experience messing around with the alignment on my 4runner. My point is don't get too caught up in trying to overly increase caster because it can sometimes compromise the other alignment numbers & you want to make sure you are able to objectively look at all the potentially contributing variables to the steering/wandering issues.

Other things to consider:
Were the newly installed ITRE, OTRE & LBJ OEM?
Are your lower cam bolts original toyota and still in good shape?
If new lower cam bolts were installed, were they OEM?

If you get under there & everything checks out good then I would take it back to the alignment shop to see if they can recheck your alignment numbers to make sure they are still within close range of your original alignment print out to rule out something getting shifted out of place.
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Old 04-15-2021, 02:49 PM #26
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I replaced the rear u-joint and the rear upper and lower control arm bushings and it did make a difference. Well, that and replacing the e-locked housing that was bent too... I could not find whiteline bushings for the rear control arms, only energy suspension seems to make them. And nothing for the panhard bar but oem which I did not do. Not hard at all to replace just grease the hell out of them when you install. The rear u-joint was also easy, check the grease fittings front and rear on the rear drive shaft and make sure they are aligned, from the factory they should both be pointing in the same direction. If they are not someone took apart the driveshaft and did not install it the same way which could possibly cause vibration
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Old 04-15-2021, 03:28 PM #27
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I replaced the rear u-joint and the rear upper and lower control arm bushings and it did make a difference. Well, that and replacing the e-locked housing that was bent too... I could not find whiteline bushings for the rear control arms, only energy suspension seems to make them. And nothing for the panhard bar but oem which I did not do. Not hard at all to replace just grease the hell out of them when you install. The rear u-joint was also easy, check the grease fittings front and rear on the rear drive shaft and make sure they are aligned, from the factory they should both be pointing in the same direction. If they are not someone took apart the driveshaft and did not install it the same way which could possibly cause vibration
Whiteline absolutely makes them. I don't think there's a single bushing on our vehicles they don't produce. Timmy has a part number in his video.
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Old 04-15-2021, 03:41 PM #28
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I replaced the rear u-joint and the rear upper and lower control arm bushings and it did make a difference. Well, that and replacing the e-locked housing that was bent too... I could not find whiteline bushings for the rear control arms, only energy suspension seems to make them. And nothing for the panhard bar but oem which I did not do. Not hard at all to replace just grease the hell out of them when you install. The rear u-joint was also easy, check the grease fittings front and rear on the rear drive shaft and make sure they are aligned, from the factory they should both be pointing in the same direction. If they are not someone took apart the driveshaft and did not install it the same way which could possibly cause vibration
Whiteline rear lower link bushings: W63378 W63378 Whiteline Trailing arm - lower bushing
Whiteline rear upper ling bushings: W63379 W63379 Whiteline Trailing arm - upper bushing

Sonoran steel also offers strongflex poly bushings for the rear upper links & the factory toyota panhard bar.

Rear upper link strongflex bushings: http://www.sonoransteel.com/index.ph...&products_id=9
Factory toyota panhard strongflex bushings: http://www.sonoransteel.com/index.ph...&products_id=9
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Old 04-19-2021, 07:40 AM #29
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Thezentree!!!

So good to hear from you brotha!! Hahah yes we have been down this road before 🤣. My last one was definitely better than this one I don’t get why it’s so bad. I remember reading your thread way back when and I have read it again since. Makes no sense man!!!!

Hope you’ve been doing well.
Yeah man, you too. Glad to see you back in a 3rd gen.


I think some of these things just vibrate more than others for some reason. Maybe some weird resonance thing caused by build tolerances? I dunno.

Either way I hope you have an easier time tracking down your vibration issue than I have haha.
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Old 04-25-2021, 06:05 PM #30
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Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: US
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Vansnxtweek Vansnxtweek is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: US
Posts: 327
Vansnxtweek will become famous soon enough
Wanted to check in as I've still been working on this...

I bought a set of front sway bar end links to use for the rear and they really fit well. The old ones were at a horrible angle and they were completely destroyed. I slightly overlooked that and that helped some with the rear sway. I really hoped this would solve my rear end clunk but it did not.

Still really anxious to get the eimkeith brackets on as I think that is going to be a big improvement.

I did the slip joint fix and HOLY CRAP what an improvement. Unbelievable. The wheel feels completely different now and this helped with handling a lot.

I took the runner back for another alignment and they were able to get the caster from 2.4/2.5 up to 2.9/3.0 and that really made a big change in the twitchi'ness. It is a lot better now. The rub in the front is worse but don't care since I'm going to get a new front bumper.

Lastly, this DAMN REAR CLUNK. I started tapping around with a mallet in the back and I thought it was the passenger rear spring. It was making some noise so I jacked everything up and rotated the spring just a pinch. This got rid of that small noise but it didn't solve the clunk.

I believe the clunk in the rear is the Toytec Aluma shocks. Everything is tight but when I have someone bounce up and down on the rear end, the shocks both make a clunking noise just as they begin to compress. For $369 shocks, this is unacceptable if that's truly what it is. I checked all mounting bolts and top nuts multiple times and its all super tight and good. Its the shock itself. Gonna call them tomorrow.

The vibrations I feel are just about gone. I think the grease had to sling out excess and balance itself back in inside the slip joint of the driveshaft after I greased it.

Hope this helps someone and if anyone has any comments or experience with shock clunking, please let me know.
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