[mtbtim]

Hey Y'all,

I installed steering rack and front sway bar bushings yesterday on my 2000 SR5 4x4. The Energy Suspension steering rack bushings were spot on and were a great fit. Even though my rack bushings weren't in bad shape, I can definitely detect more responsive steering now.

The Prothane sway bar bushings were a great fit also, but the end links is where I noticed a problem. The inner diameter of the end link bushings was much larger than OEM. The OEM bushings have a 3/8" hole and the Prothane bushings have a 6/10" hole. That's almost a 1/4" difference. So, the bushings don't fit snug at all on the end link posts and there's a lot of slop. Because of the sloppy fit, the bushings squeeze out a little past the washer when tightened down. And, I don't think I'm over-tightening the top nut, but maybe if I backed the nut off a little, the bushing wouldn't extend out past the washer.

I talked with a very helpful guy at Energy Suspension, Greg, and he said he called Prothane and was told the kit I got was the correct one.

So, I called Prothane and talked with a guy, Dominick, and he said they've had some problems with 3rd Gen 4runners because the trucks don't all have the same size end links. I don't know if that's accurate or not. Does anyone know if this is true that there can be different size end links on the 3rd Gen 4runners? He also said his R&D guy said it's not a big deal if the inner diameter is off. Don't know if I buy that either. If there is a difference between the 3rd Gen years, why not figure it out and make the right sizes for the appropriate years. Because they've only had around 8-10 calls regarding this problem and they've sold over 500 kits, they're thinking it's not a big issue. Dominick was helpful and I'm not bagging on him. I would just think the company would want to make a better product than what they're putting out.

The end result is Prothane is going to send me four other end link bushings with a 3/8" internal diameter that will probably work. He said they are a little taller and I might have to sand them down a bit but I'm guessing they'll fit a hell of a lot better than the ones that come in the kit.

Just figured I share this because these bushings came highly recommended on this forum but my experience with them is less than stellar.

[JayRolla]

Originally Posted by mtbtim

Hey Y'all,

I installed steering rack and front sway bar bushings yesterday on my 2000 SR5 4x4. The Energy Suspension steering rack bushings were spot on and were a great fit. Even though my rack bushings weren't in bad shape, I can definitely detect more responsive steering now.

The Prothane sway bar bushings were a great fit also, but the end links is where I noticed a problem. The inner diameter of the end link bushings was much larger than OEM. The OEM bushings have a 3/8" hole and the Prothane bushings have a 6/10" hole. That's almost a 1/4" difference. So, the bushings don't fit snug at all on the end link posts and there's a lot of slop. Because of the sloppy fit, the bushings squeeze out a little past the washer when tightened down. And, I don't think I'm over-tightening the top nut, but maybe if I backed the nut off a little, the bushing wouldn't extend out past the washer.

I talked with a very helpful guy at Energy Suspension, Greg, and he said he called Prothane and was told the kit I got was the correct one.

So, I called Prothane and talked with a guy, Dominick, and he said they've had some problems with 3rd Gen 4runners because the trucks don't all have the same size end links. I don't know if that's accurate or not. Does anyone know if this is true that there can be different size end links on the 3rd Gen 4runners? He also said his R&D guy said it's not a big deal if the inner diameter is off. Don't know if I buy that either. If there is a difference between the 3rd Gen years, why not figure it out and make the right sizes for the appropriate years. Because they've only had around 8-10 calls regarding this problem and they've sold over 500 kits, they're thinking it's not a big issue. Dominick was helpful and I'm not bagging on him. I would just think the company would want to make a better product than what they're putting out.

The end result is Prothane is going to send me four other end link bushings with a 3/8" internal diameter that will probably work. He said they are a little taller and I might have to sand them down a bit but I'm guessing they'll fit a hell of a lot better than the ones that come in the kit.

Just figured I share this because these bushings came highly recommended on this forum but my experience with them is less than stellar.

There are two kits. One with 26mm and one with 27mm sized bushings for sway bar brackets. I have ordered both kits. One had correct sway bar bushings but incorrect end links like you.

I then ordered the other kit and I got correct end link bushings but bracket bushings where wrong. Putting both kits together I got what I needed.

Lets just say it sucked! Not sure why this is an issue.

[mtbtim]

Originally Posted by JayRolla

There are two kits. One with 26mm and one with 27mm sized bushings for sway bar brackets. I have ordered both kits. One had correct sway bar bushings but incorrect end links like you.

I then ordered the other kit and I got correct end link bushings but bracket bushings where wrong. Putting both kits together I got what I needed.

Lets just say it sucked! Not sure why this is an issue.

The kit I ordered was Prothane #18-1115. I confirmed this was the right kit for my truck with Energy Suspenion and Prothane.

[JayRolla]

Yes and I had your same issue. Ordering this kit I was able to get correct end link bushings but the rack bushings where wrong.

Energy Suspension Sway Bar Bushings 8-5118G - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing

[ThorInc]

Yep, they do make a much faster stable response with less body roll. They do need to be lubed a few times a year.

[mtbtim]

Originally Posted by JayRolla

Yes and I had your same issue. Ordering this kit I was able to get correct end link bushings but the rack bushings where wrong.

Energy Suspension Sway Bar Bushings 8-5118G - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing

Thanks for the response. I'm hoping the ones they send me will work so I don't have to buy a second kit to get the right end link bushings.

[4x4mike]

Originally Posted by mtbtim

Hey Y'all,

So, I called Prothane and talked with a guy, Dominick, and he said they've had some problems with 3rd Gen 4runners because the trucks don't all have the same size end links. I don't know if that's accurate or not. Does anyone know if this is true that there can be different size end links on the 3rd Gen 4runners?

Have you ever replaced your end links? If so, did you replace them with factory Toyota parts? End links are wear items and with the age 3rd gens are now I'm guessing most have been replaced. If so I'm sure you will have inconsistencies with dimensions like end link length and outer diameter, especially with a part from a parts house rather than the dealer.

I've replaced my end links twice as well as the bushings twice. I've got a small lift but the bushings seem to live a short life. My last go-round I went with Prothane and got the proper fit right away after some measuring beforehand.



As far as 3rd gens having different end link lengths. Sure I believe it, especially with the stock versions. I imagine all current ones sold from the dealer are the same length but I imagine the '99 ones were longer than the '00 ones when they from shipped Japan. Who knows about link diameter and length of threads but in those years there were suspension changes to deal with SUV rollovers and fuel economy. The rear coil spring bumpers/hats are a good example.

[mtbtim]

Originally Posted by 4x4mike

Have you ever replaced your end links? If so, did you replace them with factory Toyota parts? End links are wear items and with the age 3rd gens are now I'm guessing most have been replaced. If so I'm sure you will have inconsistencies with dimensions like end link length and outer diameter, especially with a part from a parts house rather than the dealer.

I've replaced my end links twice as well as the bushings twice. I've got a small lift but the bushings seem to live a short life. My last go-round I went with Prothane and got the proper fit right away after some measuring beforehand.



As far as 3rd gens having different end link lengths. Sure I believe it, especially with the stock versions. I imagine all current ones sold from the dealer are the same length but I imagine the '99 ones were longer than the '00 ones when they from shipped Japan. Who knows about link diameter and length of threads but in those years there were suspension changes to deal with SUV rollovers and fuel economy. The rear coil spring bumpers/hats are a good example.

I can't say for sure since I bought my rig with 111,000 miles on it, but I'm pretty confident everything suspension wise was original on the truck when I got it. My truck was never taken off-road because the under-carriage was spotless. The end links and bushings looked OEM.

I did a check for the 18-1115 kit on Amazon and there were many negative reviews describing the same experience as me with the wrong size end link bushings.

I did email Dominick back and suggest they put a note on the 18-1115 kit saying Toyota did put on different size end links on those model years and to measure the end link post diameter before ordering. Then they could put different kits together for the different diameters with a part number sub-section, like 18-1115A, 18-1115B.

They make a good product but I do find it total BS to sell a product for a certain Make, Model and Year Range knowing full well that some are going to have problems with the end link bushing fit. Hopefully they'll take my suggestion and do something to rectify this issue so others aren't annoyed when they realize the end link bushings don't fit well at all.

[The Count]

My 97" has a Toytech 3" lift and the PO left it without end links. I got links for the rear of a 2nd gen which fit perfectly. Energy Suspension's 8.5118G kit fit them perfectly.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ilpage_o05_s02

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ilpage_o05_s02

[mtbtim]

Originally Posted by The Count

My 97" has a Toytech 3" lift and the PO left it without end links. I got links for the rear of a 2nd gen which fit perfectly. Energy Suspension's 8.5118G kit fit them perfectly.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ilpage_o05_s02

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ilpage_o05_s02

Thanks. @JayRolla mentioned that same kit. Greg at Energy Suspension is a very helpful dude so I'm going to call him today and ask if he could send me end link bushings from that kit.

[foo]

Did Prothane iron out the problem with the bushing sizes?

I need to replace mine as this one rotted away from oil leaking on it from above.

Found this greasy rubber part under my 4Runner (makes noise now)

[coleb10]

Re: End link bushings being too big.
Last year I ordered Prothane sway bar bushings for my '97 and the '07. The end link bushings were all way bigger than the OEM bushings.

The Prothane rear sway bar bushings for my '97 were unusable. The hole was not round and not all of the material was removed from inside the hole if that makes sense. When you look inside the bushing there are jagged sections of polyurethane sticking out. The bushing is not even close to being able to fit around the sway bar. Purchased them from a seller on ebay and had to return them. Then ordered another set from suspensionparts dot com here in Texas. Strike 2. They asked me to send a photo to prove my claim which I did and the rep was surprised. Then they had Prothane send me another set directly to my home. Strike 3. They arrived in the exact same condition. I received a refund but now have two sets of rear sway bar bushings sitting in my parts box. I have access to a milling machine and when I get around to it Im going to try and clean up the holes and make them round.

[mtbtim]

Originally Posted by foo

Did Prothane iron out the problem with the bushing sizes?

I need to replace mine as this one rotted away from oil leaking on it from above.

Found this greasy rubber part under my 4Runner (makes noise now)

No word from Prothane on my suggested fix to offer different size end link bushings to go with the sway bar bushings. If you buy the Prothane 18-1115, there's a very good chance they will not fit well on your end links. If you read the other posts on this thread, Energy Suspension does sell kit #8.5118G which has the right size end link bushings.

[mtbtim]

Below is the email I sent over one week ago to Dominick at Prothane and I've received no response. Doesn't seem like it's a priority and the replacement bushings he promised to send never came. Oh well, at least it's not an expensive product and I can get the end link bushings I need by buying the Energy Suspension kit.

Hey Dominick,

I wanted to let you know I did a check on Amazon for this kit and I read several negative reviews regarding the fit of the end link bushings. I also found out on a Toyota Forum that others have had the same experience as well.

I do have a suggestion. Since you know there is an issue with Toyota having different size end links on those years, why not put a note on this kit to the consumer that there are different size end links on the 3rd Generation 4runners and tell people to measure the end link posts before ordering so they can get the right kit. You could make different kit numbers for the different end link sizes, for instance 18-1115A, 18-1115B... The kits would all have the same sway bar bushings because I gather those are all the same and aren’t a problem. The difference would be the end link bushings that come with the sway bar bushings.

I think you guys put out a good product but I have to admit I’m pretty displeased that you are sending this kit out knowing some are going to have fit issues with the end links. I know your R&D guy doesn’t think it’s a big issue, but wouldn’t you rather give your customers an accurate fit for their application?

Thanks for you time,

Tim

[foo]

Originally Posted by mtbtim

No word from Prothane on my suggested fix to offer different size end link bushings to go with the sway bar bushings. If you buy the Prothane 18-1115, there's a very good chance they will not fit well on your end links. If you read the other posts on this thread, Energy Suspension does sell kit #8.5118G which has the right size end link bushings.

Just to update this thread with the information that is on this thread:
Found this greasy rubber part under my 4Runner (makes noise now)

I measured with calipers the midpoint of my absolutely positively stock original OEM sway bar & endlink rods to be:
1. 1.042 inches (roughly 26.5mm) for the sway bar
2. 0.395 inches (roughly 10.0mm) for the endlink rods

Since Domenic suggested that the bushings should have a preload of 20 thousandths of an inch (i.e., they should be roughly 0.5mm smaller than the metal rod they surround), the actual ID of the bushings "should" be:
1. roughly 1.022 inches (26.0mm) for the sway bar body bushing
2.roughly 0.375 inches (3/8-inch, or 9.5mm) for the endlink bar bushings.

I'm not yet sure what the actual diameters are for the respective bushings, but I can now tell why people are forced to buy BOTH kits, just to get a decently fitting set of swaybar body & endlink bushings!

If we assume the bushing is 20 thousandths smaller than the measured steel rod diameter, then:
a. The Prothane 26mm bushing should be something like 1.024 inches - 0.020 = 1.004 inches
b. The Energy Suspension 27mm bushing should be something like 1.063 inches - 0.020 = 1.043 inches