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Old 08-15-2021, 08:59 PM #1
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Can I install a limited slip diff and still keep my e-locker?

Maybe a completely stupid question

I have a 96 4Runner with the factory e-locker. The locker works great, the 1-2 times a year I use it. However, there are times on the road (especially in rain) where I have fishtailed going around a corner. Now, I'm not going fast or driving recklessly, I think the issue is just wet roads with an open diff and no traction control.

So now I'm considering either installing something like an Eaton Trutrac, which would be amazing if I could somehow install it while keeping my locker. If not, I'll have to forgo the locker because I simply don't need/use it much.

What options do I have?


Edit: I have 4.30 gears

Last edited by phx_4Runner; 08-15-2021 at 09:11 PM.
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Old 08-15-2021, 09:01 PM #2
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I can't answer your question but if you're fishtailing with an open diff then it will be worse with a limited slip.
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Old 08-15-2021, 09:12 PM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alumarine View Post
I can't answer your question but if you're fishtailing with an open diff then it will be worse with a limited slip.

How so? I only fishtail in heavy rain, why wouldn't an LSD send traction to the other wheel and prevent the fishtail?
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Old 08-15-2021, 09:55 PM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phx_4Runner View Post
How so? I only fishtail in heavy rain, why wouldn't an LSD send traction to the other wheel and prevent the fishtail?
I can say with confidence that you will only be able to have one or the other in a given differential.

A limited slip is more generally useful than an e locker though it has limitations. For rain and slippery situations it is quite helpful.

If your problem is losing traction while accelerating in wet weather then the limited slip will help.
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Old 08-15-2021, 10:06 PM #5
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Having an LSD will help in situations like you described, but I don't think it should be the first thing you try. Plenty of people get along fine with open differentials in wet climates, having good driving habits in wet whether will get you further.

If your apply heavy throttle suddenly (especially around a turn or up a snowy hill) your more likely to fishtail. Its easy to want to accelerate quickly out of a turn, which has been the cause of 60% of my fishtailing experiences.

I doubt your running crappy tires, but I will mention for the sake of being thorough that the tires have a larger impact on wet driving then your differentials do.

I would consider changing other things before I added an LSD but that is my 2 cents. If your doing all this and your still fishtailing then get an LSD because it will definitely help.

As for the original question of if you can have both I have read on a Tacoma thread that you have to choose between a locking diff or a limited slip diff. So you can't have it both ways unfortunately.

Last edited by Pyral; 08-15-2021 at 10:24 PM.
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Old 08-16-2021, 08:02 AM #6
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I have a limited slip in my 2001 out of an LX. It definitely helps with tire spinning on wet corners. However if you push it hard enough to lose traction on both tires you will truly understand the definition of fishtailing. My suggestion is to keep the set up you have now and put on a really good set of wet rated tires. Also if conditions are really bad using 4wd is an option
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Old 08-16-2021, 09:03 AM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phx_4Runner View Post
How so? I only fishtail in heavy rain, why wouldn't an LSD send traction to the other wheel and prevent the fishtail?
With an open diff only one wheel spins which reduces traction on that wheel but the non spinning wheel will still have traction and that friction will resist going
sideways. (not the best explanation but that's all I got this morning)

With an LSD if you get both wheels spinning then neither will have traction.
As St Runner said if you get both wheels spinning around a slippery corner it gets exciting quick.
Especially with a shorter wheelbase like these trucks have.

Is your truck actually kicking out sideways on the corners or is it just a wheel spinning?
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Last edited by alumarine; 08-16-2021 at 09:07 AM.
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Old 08-16-2021, 09:09 AM #8
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/\ /\ /\ Seconding what he said. A li9mited slip will allow you to put a little more power down, but generally speaking only if you're still in the corner, or if the road is slanted, unweighting the inside/uphill tire a bit. Otherwise, both tires will have roughly similar levels of traction, and the LSD won't really do all that much.

And with an open diff, if you do mash the pedal down too much and lose traction, almost always one tire will spin, and the other will maintain traction, and that will keep directional control. With an LSD, unless the traction is WAY different between both side, if you add to much skinny pedal both tires will spin, and the rear of the car is free to move side to side with little control. If you think it fishtails with an open diff, it's really going to be wild with an LSD.

I did a gray wire mod on my e-locker, which lets you engage it in all modes, including 2HI. Which makes it pretty entertaining on wet streets. The 5VZ doesn't have enough HP to do it on dry pavement. But yeah, lock the diff, go around a damp corner, throttle it hard, and get ready for some oversteer. The heft and long wheelbase make it fairly controllable. Less likely to do a snap recovery.

And to concur on the 'can't have both' answers above - it's one or the other. The part of the diff that does the e-locking is the same part that is replaced with the LSD. On the e-lockers there is a splined sleeve that slides in from the left side and locks one of the spider gears (which in turn, locks the other). In an LSD (well, there are different types) the spider gears have clutch packs that only let them move relative to each other with a certain (ahem - LIMITED) amount of force.

You certainly could make a diff that does both, the designs aren't really mutually exclusive. But AFAIK nobody has ever bothered, so they don't exist.
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Old 08-16-2021, 10:39 AM #9
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1: you can’t have an elocker and a LSD.
2: selectable lockers>LSD
3: if your fishtailing with an open diff you will 100% fishtail wayyyy more with an LSD.. Drifters use LSD’s and welded diffs so that they slide better/easier when drifting..
4: if you have a 4runner with the option to run an open transfercase that’s the best option for driving in heavy rain.
5: if you look up videos of how a diff works you will see if you don’t want the tires to lock up they have to spin at different rates while going around a corner. An open transfercase will allow tires to spin at different rates while also putting power to more than one tire.
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Old 08-16-2021, 12:04 PM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alumarine View Post
With an LSD if you get both wheels spinning then neither will have traction.
As St Runner said if you get both wheels spinning around a slippery corner it gets exciting quick.
Especially with a shorter wheelbase like these trucks have.
I have an LSD in my 4Runner, I can confirm this. Loss of traction in rain before an LSD was more often but less severe. Now it happens less but when it does I start spinning donuts in the middle of traffic. Thankfully I've never hit anyone but when the back end breaks loose in the rain there's no stopping it, even with no throttle input since both tires have no traction. I just start drifting and spinning until the vehicle comes to a stop.

My next set of tires will have better wet traction for on-road driving. Something like the Michelin or Continental TerrainContact.
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Old 08-16-2021, 02:10 PM #11
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Quote:
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How so? I only fishtail in heavy rain, why wouldn't an LSD send traction to the other wheel and prevent the fishtail?
As others have said, that's not at all how it works... Less likely to spin one tire, but much more likely to actually fishtail (oversteer).

You will get better acceleration, especially in a straight line - but having the wheels spin together will make rain (really, more of an issue with snow) way more 'exciting'. Been there, done that with AWD cars... (fun if you know what you are doing, but you have to be very careful)

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Old 08-16-2021, 03:14 PM #12
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Driving in wet or slick conditions specially in turns boils down to experience. Fsh tailing in corners when wet or slick can be controlled to a great extend with steering input and throttle control i.e with decent tires.
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Old 08-16-2021, 04:39 PM #13
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In an open diff the wheel that isnít spinning acts like an anchor to reduce the fish tailing, if youíre losing traction to the point of fishtailing in the rain you need to either drive more carefully or get better tires.

I drive in heavy rain regularly and never fishtail, and that includes many miles of daily driving with a lunchbox locker.
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Old 08-16-2021, 10:21 PM #14
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No amount of traction aids short of a rain specific tire will help you if you're over steering the truck in corners.
Slowing down is way cheaper than a Limited Slip Diff.
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Old 08-17-2021, 01:35 AM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phx_4Runner View Post
Maybe a completely stupid question

I have a 96 4Runner with the factory e-locker. The locker works great, the 1-2 times a year I use it. However, there are times on the road (especially in rain) where I have fishtailed going around a corner. Now, I'm not going fast or driving recklessly, I think the issue is just wet roads with an open diff and no traction control.

So now I'm considering either installing something like an Eaton Trutrac, which would be amazing if I could somehow install it while keeping my locker. If not, I'll have to forgo the locker because I simply don't need/use it much.

What options do I have?


Edit: I have 4.30 gears
To answer your question, you can add an LSD to a eLocker, yes, but can you do it with OEM parts? Maybe, maybe not. You'd have to disassemble an LSD and an Elocker and see if the LSD satellite cassette fits in the elocker mechanism. Toyota doesn't put them together in the rear diff, as they are designed to work differently for different situations.
Toyota does fit them both into the transfers of some Land Cruiser tho as there they do work good in combination.

General purpose of the elocker is for where you want slow throttle control at very slow speeds of the engine and of the car. You can drag race too with it, but the LSD would be better, as it works at fast throttle acceleration. It only locks when you give it gas fast, therefore it could help you in mud where some speed is needed, but it doesn't help much when crawling as it can't lock at that low speed.

Even at the popular concept that when you raise rear wheels and turn one, and the other spins in the same direction on an LSD, doesn't mean you have managed to lock (or tighten is a more accurate term) the LSD using only power of your hands. Usually the other wheel spins because of the stiffness and drag created by the oil that holds the spider wheels from loosening up.

I recommend better tires in combo with an AWD transfer case (the one mentioned with a center diff lock in the unlock position to significantly reduce fishtailing.

It's expected tho. Fishtailing in the 4Runner is normal and fun when only in 2WD. But be aware of your surroundings when taking a turn in a two lane turn corners.
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