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Old 12-06-2021, 01:51 PM #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Luck View Post
Harrop (Eaton) E-lockers have a problem with unlocking when you change drive direction.
Harrop Eaton E-locker Disengagement Examples | Watch before you buy - YouTube
That is normal on E-lockers, the problem is that the ball bearing has to slide up onto a ramp to engage lock, when you reverse the ball bearing will go back down its ramp and it wont engage until it goes up the next ramp.

ARB does a great job of showing why this is, but I would only watch this part of the video. The rest of the video is a giant sales pitch, and its obviously going to be bias in favor of the ARB option.
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Old 12-06-2021, 02:54 PM #17
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That is normal on E-lockers, the problem is that the ball bearing has to slide up onto a ramp to engage lock, when you reverse the ball bearing will go back down its ramp and it wont engage until it goes up the next ramp.

ARB does a great job of showing why this is, but I would only watch this part of the video. The rest of the video is a giant sales pitch, and its obviously going to be bias in favor of the ARB option.
Yes I'm aware that is normal with their design of elockers. Toyota rear e lockers utilize a different design and therefore don't unlock/have slack/whatever you wish to call it when changing drive direction. If given the choice between a Harrop e locker and an ARB air locker I would choose the ARB for the close to instant on/off abilities and no slack or unlocking when changing drive direction.
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Old 12-06-2021, 03:22 PM #18
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This has been a great and informative thread. Keep up the discussion guys!
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Old 12-06-2021, 03:31 PM #19
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I would highly recommend a Detroit True Trac LSD unit up front to accompany the rear OEM e-locker.

I run this setup with 4.88 gears, and it is amazing. Zero complaints.

As you said, advantages include no need for onboard air, leaky air lines, failing solenoids, more wiring demands etc. Dont have to worry about air seals failing, compressor not working, etc, etc. It's just a much simpler setup overall.

Are ARB air lockers more capable? Sure. They are.

But, I've done some pretty insane things with the TT up front and the rear locked. For you east coasters- Dickey Bell and Daniel trails at Uwharrie. Basically all rocks. If you lift a front wheel, a gentle tap of the brake pedal will lock the front up.
The True Trac shines in the sand, mud and loose stuff. It just pulls right through.

I haven't noticed any negative steering impact.

I'd definitely have ECGS do the work. They do special machining on the True Tracs, and can do the needle bearing eliminator for you at the same time
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Old 12-06-2021, 03:51 PM #20
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I still didn't really see where you stated what you want the front locker for?

Rock crawling on a budget? Rock crawling cost-no-object? Traction in the snow? Cool factor? Drag launches (ha!)?

That should dictate what you get and when.

-Charlie
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Old 12-06-2021, 03:59 PM #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Luck View Post
Harrop (Eaton) E-lockers have a problem with unlocking when you change drive direction.
Harrop Eaton E-locker Disengagement Examples | Watch before you buy - YouTube
My understanding is that video was reviewing the older 2-pinion design and that the newer 4-pinion model is a big improvement. I believe the issue of some "slack" before re-engaging when changing direction still exists but is greatly reduced in the newer version. **EDIT** I learned from talking with Eaton that there are really two new Elocker designs. The standard Elocker4 has replaced the older 2 pinion model and is stronger but exhibits the same issue of "slack" when changing directions. There is also the newest "Elocker4 Directing Acting" model that has a different engagement mechanism so it does not have the issues with "slack" and is theoretically stronger but it is only compatible with Dana 60/70 axles.

To the OP - I'm planning to get both front and rear e-lockers from Eaton installed next month. After a lot of research, I believe they will be the best fit for what I want. However, I intend to use them primarily for overlanding in the snow/mud so your needs may be different.
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Old 12-06-2021, 04:01 PM #22
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Figured I'd post a link to my front TT install tech since we seem to be going on a technical deep-dive
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Old 12-06-2021, 06:00 PM #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Option01 View Post
My understanding is that video was reviewing the older 2-piston design and that the newer 4-piston model is a big improvement. I believe the issue of some "slack" before re-engaging when changing direction still exists but is greatly reduced in the newer version.

To the OP - I'm planning to get both front and rear e-lockers from Eaton installed next month. After a lot of research, I believe they will be the best fit for what I want. However, I intend to use them primarily for overlanding in the snow/mud so your needs may be different.
The redesign happened in 2018 and they went from a 2 pinion to 4 pinion design which did help, but the problem still exists. The video I posted was the 4 pinion design and had been replaced by Harrop twice and it was still unlocking on it's own.
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Old 12-06-2021, 06:36 PM #24
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Quote:
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The redesign happened in 2018 and they went from a 2 pinion to 4 pinion design which did help, but the problem still exists. The video I posted was the 4 pinion design and had been replaced by Harrop twice and it was still unlocking on it's own.
Are you sure that the video covers the 4 pinion design? AllOffroad Adventures TV posted these replies below the video which gave me the impression they were working with the original 2 pinion model:

Quote:
"In general, I have no issue with E-lockers and would like to test the Eaton E-locker 4 which Eaton created to exactly get around the limitations of the Harrop/Eaton e-locker. Unfortunately only available for dana 60/70 at this stage."
Quote:
"I hope one day Harrop brings the direct-acting e-locker design for the Dana 60/70 down for other diffs as this would be an e-locker I install until then I pass based on my research and experience. Why do you think Eaton released a direct-acting e-locker in the US? "
**EDIT** I still don't know if they had 2 pinion elockers or the newer design with 4 pinions but it appears he is talking about Eaton's newest model, the "Elocker4 Direct Acting" which is a totally different design and theoretically should resolve the issues they've experienced. However, it is currently only available for Dana 60/70 axles.
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Old 12-06-2021, 06:50 PM #25
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Quote:
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Are you sure that the video covers the 4 pinion design? AllOffroad Adventures TV posted these replies below the video which gave me the impression they were working with the original 2 pinion model:
I stand corrected, but doesn't that also mean you will be getting the 2 pinion design that they showed unlocking in the video?
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Old 12-06-2021, 06:58 PM #26
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I stand corrected, but doesn't that also mean you will be getting the 2 pinion design that they showed unlocking in the video?
My understanding is that Eaton replaced the old design quite some time ago and now only sells the newer 4 pinion design (at least here in the US). If you Google the part numbers for the Eaton Elockers that fit our 3rd gen 4Runners (14218-1 and 14211-1), the retailer websites all show "Elocker4" in the title.

Those posts from AllOffroad Adventures TV are almost a year old so I'm guessing that Harrop might not have licensed Eaton's newer design right away so maybe they were not available in Australia yet (or maybe still are not).

**EDIT** While Eaton has upgraded the elocker for our 4Runners to an Elocker4 (4 pinion design which is stronger than other older 2 pinion model), that is not the fancy new/improved design that AllOffroad Adventures is interested in trying out. That would be the "Elocker4 Direct Acting" model which has a totally different mechanism but is currently only available for Dana 60/70 axles
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Old 12-07-2021, 05:48 PM #27
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Quote:
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I didn't realize exactly what a lunchbox locker was, but further searching revealed enough for me to realize I don't want one. When I was looking for my third gen I drove one which likely had a lunchbox on it, it would bind around corners and it sounded terrible.

Limited slip or airlocker is what I meant to say.

Do limited slip differentials in the front have the same downsides as they do in the rear?

If I did fit an air locker in the front it wouldn't make much sense not to fit one in the rear as well since a majority of the hardware would already be in place. If you consider that the total is 5k (RD90 front RD132 rear, plus all the kit needed), I wouldn't do this all at once but that is till a large price.

If I eventually put an air locker in the back would it at least save me the trouble of changing the rear gear ratio like I would if I went with the stock E-locker?

Does anyone besides ARB make air lockers for our 4runners?

Also I think the truetrac LSD for our 4runners was discontinued
I don't wheel very much, and only crawled in my 4Runner once. Not really my thing so take that into consideration. Mostly just dirt roads and stuff here but I love my LSD it's very helpful on-road with traction for my specific build and I never have to think about it, it's 'always on'. The one time I did go wheeling, I had less issues with loose soil and rocks with highway-rated tires and an LSD than the other guys with A/T tires with an open diff. It's a solid improvement. I hardly ever use 4WD anymore for that reason, 2WD with an LSD is more than enough.

The exception to that is snow. Doesn't help there.
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Old 12-08-2021, 05:02 AM #28
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Is fitting an E-locker as simple as installing it in the diff, running the wires to the battery and a relay that is controlled by a switch in the cabin?

Also how is the relay controlled once in the diff, do I have to drill a hole in my diff to fit a wire?

Would the truetrack LSD need to be changed if I ever fitted an Elocker in the rear diff since the gear ratio at the back goes from 4:10 to 4.30?
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Old 12-08-2021, 10:34 AM #29
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Quote:
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Is fitting an E-locker as simple as installing it in the diff, running the wires to the battery and a relay that is controlled by a switch in the cabin?

Also how is the relay controlled once in the diff, do I have to drill a hole in my diff to fit a wire?

Would the truetrack LSD need to be changed if I ever fitted an Elocker in the rear diff since the gear ratio at the back goes from 4:10 to 4.30?
The Toyota rear e-locker has a different mounting flange pattern than non e-locker rear differentials so you will either need to find a rear e locker axle housing (or complete axle assembly) or modify your non e-locker housing. It requires grinding part of the opening to clear the differential components and drilling/tapping a few more stud holes.

For the wiring you will need the factory module/switch/wiring or make your own. I would recommend using an aftermarket wiring harness/switch/components if you don't have the factory components: E-LOCKER FULL KIT SWITCH & CABLE - 12 Volt Guy

A toyota rear e-locker can only be an e-locker. You cannot install an lsd or any other traction assist device into that differential.
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Old 12-08-2021, 11:15 AM #30
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Yeah, e-locker wiring is NOT a simple on-off switch. It's not quite rocket science, but it's a bit more complex. Need the 12V+ to go one way to lock, and then the other to unlock. And keep track of the limit switch so you know what's going on in there as well.

I will readily admit that I haven't wheeled with an LSD up front, but based on PURE IDLE SPECULATION (enough of a disclaimer?) I don't think it would be that ideal. LSD's only transmit significant traction to the loaded wheel when there's a bit of spin in the system. And with a locker in the rear and in 4WD, the only way you're going to get significant spin is if all 3 other tires are spinning, and only then will it transfer some torque to the front wheel with more grip than the unweighted one.

And spinning wheels are sliding wheels (unless it's very flat and level side to side).

Not to say it wouldn't help in a situation like that, it would. Just that a front locker would work better - get that last front wheel to contribute while the other tires are still going, not already spinning.

I still have an open diff on the front of mine (e locker in the rear). My wife has an Arb up front and an e-locker on the rear of hers. That front locker def does make a difference in extreme situations.
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